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2013-12-24 8:41 AM

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Subject: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Continuation of last season's group. Everyone is welcome provided you adhere to the guidelines below.

 

This is a continuation of Prior mentor group's of mine that have morphed into something different and better.

I start this thread, not as mentor, but as a RE-starter of a great group discussion.


THERE ARE ONLY A FEW STRICT GROUND RULES. THIS THREAD WILL BE SELF MODERATED BY IT’S MEMBERS.
The discussion in this group is limited to SBR training and supporting each other. We do not talk about politics, current events, rant about the pool, tattoos, talk about gun control, furry animals, etc.

Many of us want to talk about non SBR topics, but there are other threads and forums to do that in. And many of us do participate in those off topic discussions…there is nothing wrong with that…just that we should separate those discussions from this group.


If you want to post in this group, you should provide your first name (if not implied by your handle), either in a bio, your signature, or simply at the end of your post. This is not an anonymous thread, and posting your name goes a long way to keeping everyone respectful.


Post with an open mind. Too many times in Tri Talk and other forums, people post with the intention of winning a debate or proving someone wrong. *Raises Hand*, I am guilty of it from time to time. However, this group is about supporting fellow athletes, not winning an argument, debate, or discussion. There are going to be times you will be offered advice you do not agree with or maybe simply advice you don’t want to hear. Keep an open mind and agree to disagree.

DISCLAIMER – This discussion group is different from other mentor groups in that it’s basically one ongoing discussion. It is very likely that you will get out of it what you put into it. If you “lurk” and don’t participate in the discussions, that’s fine and lots of people learn that way. But if you are looking for more personalized attention, you might want to try some of the other mentor groups available (but you are still welcome to post here anytime). There are some very good mentor group leaders who almost act as coaches towards their mentees. They can do that because their groups are confined to a limited size. I cannot guarantee that you will have that experience here because this discussion is open to anyone.

Many of us in the group have coaches and a lot of tri experience, HOWEVER we encourage all-comers to join in. You can be part of this group along with another mentor group, in fact I would encourage that!

With that being said, welcome to SBR Utopia.

LASTLY, I think the real strength of this group is the plethora of great contributors. Jason N has taken the mantle of keeping this thread alive while I was too busy/absent, and has graciously allowed me to restart the thread, so I thank him for that.

GAME ON!

 



2013-12-24 8:42 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Also, to Ron.... Can this group be started last, to allow other groups to fill up first, as I don't want it to take away from the other great mentor groups?

Thanks!

2013-12-24 12:25 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

I like the adjustment to the title name. 

I hope everyone enjoys the next week with family and friends.  Don't eat too much and be safe. 

I'm trying to see if I can complete the Strava Festive 500 challenge....500km from 12/24 to 12/31.

2013-12-24 1:22 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

That's a lot of riding Jason!  Are you going to do any big monster days or just steady throughout?

2013-12-24 1:23 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Assuming he'll be back in the discussion...a question for Marc.

I know in thread in TT you posted your PMC showing fitness rising and droping.  I was thinking about posting this question in the power group thread, but I didn't want to jump ahead on topics you plan to cover later.

Assuming you don't test that often year round, do you "prorate" the decline or rise in your FTP between tests?  For example, if over the course of 2-3 months you realize your FTP has dropped 30 watts.  Do you go back in WKO and spread that FTP drop over those 2-3 months...or do you simply just enter in the new FTP, and WKO will assume on one day your FTP was X, and the next day your FTP was X - 30?  I ask because this would impact your IF and TSS calculations...and thus your PMC chart.

My guess is that most people are pretty lazy about entering in their proper FTP and keeping it up to date.  Maybe not a big deal if you don't want to use the PMC, but for me riding full time, it's becoming something I'm trying to rely heavily on.

Thoughts?

2013-12-24 1:29 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by axteraa

That's a lot of riding Jason!  Are you going to do any big monster days or just steady throughout?

I'm currently around 250ish mpw.  The challenge is 8 days long, so really just one extra day of 60 miles required.  I'm off on Thursday, so planning around a 60-70 miler that day.  My Saturday group ride is also kicking up from 50 to 60 miles this weekend, so I'll see a little bump there as well. 

 



2013-12-24 3:01 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Thanks Fred for creating the new thread!

I got a new swim partner. She is another local elite female. So she wants to get faster so she ask if we can swim together. I was honored!

Anyway today's swim put me over 400K

Swim: 113h 08m 03s - 401658 Yd

Happy with that!
2013-12-25 10:45 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Thanks for starting the group again -- looking forward to continuing the interesting discussions.

I'm visiting my family in Socal for the holidays; just got back from an amazing run!  It's sunny and 70 degrees, a bit of a breeze....one of those runs where you just don't want it to end.  But I'm trying to be smart, so I kept it to just over four miles.  Marc convinced me to join ST's 100 runs in 100 days challenge.  I don't have any intention of running 100 runs, but aiming for somewhere in the 70-80 range and coming out a better runner on the other end.  Really been enjoying running lately

2013-12-25 8:02 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Fred - thanks for restarting.  This is a great group!

Jason, I'm no Marc, so grains of salt a-plenty.  I do actually apply a mental fudge factor for my FTP (at least when I go from knowing it at the start of and then near the end of a training block when I subsequently slack off - not worth even going through how I do that, as it's mostly guesswork anyway).  What has been interesting to me is looking at the Strava estimated FTP.  

Not entirely sure how they calculate it, and I haven't retested recently enough to know how it stacks up, but I can say that it matches what I would expect my FTP to be given recent riding (as in, what I see I can hold for different intervals and such).  

Kinda depressing when it starts to really plummet, but seems to be at least close (which is all I'm looking for, unless I really need to know it for more focused training - but that's when I retest, anyway).

Looking forward to more informed answers or approaches!

Also, got a nice run in today.  Sunny and cold (three below F with the light breeze), but felt great in my new running gear (merry christmas to me!).

Happy holidays all!

Matt

2013-12-25 8:03 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by BrotherTri Thanks Fred for creating the new thread! I got a new swim partner. She is another local elite female. So she wants to get faster so she ask if we can swim together. I was honored! Anyway today's swim put me over 400K Swim: 113h 08m 03s - 401658 Yd Happy with that!

That's a lot of yards.  For real...

Matt

2013-12-26 6:17 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Swim in the books already . I am FINALLY recovering from whatever virus took control of my body just before thanksgiving! Swimming is becoming more enjoyable since my break from it.


2013-12-26 6:36 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Glad to hear you finally shook it off Fred, that's a long time to have that hang around.

No swim for me today, the pool is still closed.  VO2max fun on the trainer instead!    Also going to get a run in and maybe some snowshoeing.

2013-12-26 9:17 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by Fred D

Swim in the books already . I am FINALLY recovering from whatever virus took control of my body just before thanksgiving! Swimming is becoming more enjoyable since my break from it.


So glad you finally shook that.
2013-12-26 9:19 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by axteraa

Glad to hear you finally shook it off Fred, that's a long time to have that hang around.

No swim for me today, the pool is still closed.  VO2max fun on the trainer instead!    Also going to get a run in and maybe some snowshoeing.




Come on Arend, you can afford a little pool down time.

2013-12-26 9:38 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

I got a runners metronome and did my first run with it this am. I set it to 190 bpm and timed my arm swings forward to match. My next run I'll set it to 80 bpm a time one arm forward to match. It's the same spm just a lot less beeps.

In the past I was counting via right arm in the backwards motion for 10 seconds. Still 190 spm just a little less accurate. I find the metrodome keeps me at the set cadence throughout the run, so it works.

Anyone else running high spm or with metronome?

BTW I was running in 3 inches of fresh snow this am and it was very nice. The Hoka's don't do to well in the snow but worked well enough.
2013-12-26 9:52 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by BrotherTri Thanks Fred for creating the new thread! I got a new swim partner. She is another local elite female. So she wants to get faster so she ask if we can swim together. I was honored! Anyway today's swim put me over 400K Swim: 113h 08m 03s - 401658 Yd Happy with that!

That's a lot of yards.  For real...

Matt




Not so impressive...... 228 miles or 367286 meters.

Thing is I am still slower than Arend.....


2013-12-26 10:48 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by axteraa

Glad to hear you finally shook it off Fred, that's a long time to have that hang around.

No swim for me today, the pool is still closed.  VO2max fun on the trainer instead!    Also going to get a run in and maybe some snowshoeing.

Come on Arend, you can afford a little pool down time.

Last week was my pool downtime.  Two swims cancelled due to snowstorms.  It's looking like tomorrow morning's swim may get canned due to weather as well.

2013-12-26 12:43 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Hello, new group!
2013-12-26 2:02 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by BrotherTri I got a runners metronome and did my first run with it this am. I set it to 190 bpm and timed my arm swings forward to match. My next run I'll set it to 80 bpm a time one arm forward to match. It's the same spm just a lot less beeps. In the past I was counting via right arm in the backwards motion for 10 seconds. Still 190 spm just a little less accurate. I find the metrodome keeps me at the set cadence throughout the run, so it works. Anyone else running high spm or with metronome? BTW I was running in 3 inches of fresh snow this am and it was very nice. The Hoka's don't do to well in the snow but worked well enough.

I use a cadence sensor on my shoe (most of the time - now more for data post than during, as I've got my spm feel pretty well dialed in over the last year).

My slow/easy runs are 89-92 spm, tempo is ~91-94, 5k or 10k race is ~95-96 (up to 100 for either a wicked hill or passing on flats) and oddly back down to 93-95 for a finish line kick (lengthen the stride and power along), HM race in the low to mid 90's (91 up to 95-96).

I've very recently been trying to keep my cadence closer to 91-94 for all those paces/distances (speed up on the slow runs and more power on the fast ones, so not just windmilling).  I've found that 93 is sort of a sweet spot, although I will creep up or down depending on fatigue and pace (down in a slower average pace race, like a HM, and up for a faster pace, like a 5K, when I get tired). 

Being able to look at the watch and check is nice during a run, though, and while using the footpod puts the onus on me to set my spm, it also allows me to vary it by segment of the run (w/u, main sets, c/d, etc.).  Is it easy to change the cadence in a metronome during a run?

I do find that the spm will vary juuuuuust a bit by music selection, too, so it's clearly not foolproof - unless you pick perfect music (and there are sites that will select songs based on cadence - but I'm not that wound up with it… the pod gets me close enough).

These cadences are higher than I historically ran by about 5-7 spm, and it seems to help with both form (not overstriding) and comfort (if such a word can be applied to turning oneself inside out!).

Now, I just need to get my swim cadence right.  So, after this too-long post, a question for the group:

What cadence do you use for swimming (spm)?  Do you vary it by speed, or do you hold the same spm but vary the power of the stroke?

Matt

ETA:  Hello Rusty!  



Edited by mcmanusclan5 2013-12-26 2:03 PM
2013-12-26 2:25 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by TankBoy

Hello, new group!


Rusty did you make it to the wilderness?


2013-12-26 2:46 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Hey you guys! Howzit?

Curious, do any of you have a recommendation for a mentor/group that has a lot of running knowledge/experience?

I know ... it's kind of faux pas to ask about a mentor group in a mentor group. But, I figure you guys would understand! 

I will probably still pop in here every now and again, so I suppose I should post some info. I'm just so run-xclusive now, I feel a bit out of place! Don't make me to go letsrun! They will eat me aliiiive! 



2013-12-26 3:06 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by BrotherTri I got a runners metronome and did my first run with it this am. I set it to 190 bpm and timed my arm swings forward to match. My next run I'll set it to 80 bpm a time one arm forward to match. It's the same spm just a lot less beeps. In the past I was counting via right arm in the backwards motion for 10 seconds. Still 190 spm just a little less accurate. I find the metrodome keeps me at the set cadence throughout the run, so it works. Anyone else running high spm or with metronome? BTW I was running in 3 inches of fresh snow this am and it was very nice. The Hoka's don't do to well in the snow but worked well enough.

I use a cadence sensor on my shoe (most of the time - now more for data post than during, as I've got my spm feel pretty well dialed in over the last year).

My slow/easy runs are 89-92 spm, tempo is ~91-94, 5k or 10k race is ~95-96 (up to 100 for either a wicked hill or passing on flats) and oddly back down to 93-95 for a finish line kick (lengthen the stride and power along), HM race in the low to mid 90's (91 up to 95-96).

I've very recently been trying to keep my cadence closer to 91-94 for all those paces/distances (speed up on the slow runs and more power on the fast ones, so not just windmilling).  I've found that 93 is sort of a sweet spot, although I will creep up or down depending on fatigue and pace (down in a slower average pace race, like a HM, and up for a faster pace, like a 5K, when I get tired). 

Being able to look at the watch and check is nice during a run, though, and while using the footpod puts the onus on me to set my spm, it also allows me to vary it by segment of the run (w/u, main sets, c/d, etc.).  Is it easy to change the cadence in a metronome during a run?

I do find that the spm will vary juuuuuust a bit by music selection, too, so it's clearly not foolproof - unless you pick perfect music (and there are sites that will select songs based on cadence - but I'm not that wound up with it… the pod gets me close enough).

These cadences are higher than I historically ran by about 5-7 spm, and it seems to help with both form (not overstriding) and comfort (if such a word can be applied to turning oneself inside out!).

Now, I just need to get my swim cadence right.  So, after this too-long post, a question for the group:

What cadence do you use for swimming (spm)?  Do you vary it by speed, or do you hold the same spm but vary the power of the stroke?

Matt

ETA:  Hello Rusty!  




Ok so you just count one step? With me for some reason lower cadence caused me to strike too far on the forefoot. So I went 86’ish to 95 spm. I probable play around from 90-95 spm.

My Metronome is a Seiko DM51 and very easy to change the cadence and volume while running. I clipped it to the back of my hat. I don’t think my music interferes with the beeping cadence. I seam to be able to either noise out.

I rarely count my swim strokes but if I remember correctly I’ve counted 10-11 spm (more of pull glide) too 15 spm or more (in a sprint) for 25 yard pool. I mainly focus more on the catch, pull and recover. I try to keep the recovery as quickly as possible and the pull thru to the hip area.

2013-12-26 3:12 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Master
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by Asalzwed

Hey you guys! Howzit?

Curious, do any of you have a recommendation for a mentor/group that has a lot of running knowledge/experience?

I know ... it's kind of faux pas to ask about a mentor group in a mentor group. But, I figure you guys would understand! 

I will probably still pop in here every now and again, so I suppose I should post some info. I'm just so run-xclusive now, I feel a bit out of place! Don't make me to go letsrun! They will eat me aliiiive! 




I would say Jim (Birkierunner's) group. I have a group but consider running my weakest link especial endurance running. I don't even know what letsrun! is.

2013-12-26 4:12 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by Asalzwed

Hey you guys! Howzit?

Curious, do any of you have a recommendation for a mentor/group that has a lot of running knowledge/experience?

I know ... it's kind of faux pas to ask about a mentor group in a mentor group. But, I figure you guys would understand! 

I will probably still pop in here every now and again, so I suppose I should post some info. I'm just so run-xclusive now, I feel a bit out of place! Don't make me to go letsrun! They will eat me aliiiive! 

. Jim's group (Birkierunner) is the best answer. Jim was a former NCAA competitive track runner with an amazing PB in the 10k. Seriously, people would be floored by how fast he ran that. I'd reach out to Jim, as I know you are a very fine runner yourself, and I'm sure he would be very helpful.
2013-12-26 4:19 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by TankBoyHello, new group!
. Hello friend!
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