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2013-12-26 5:26 PM

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Subject: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Signed up for IMWI September 7th, looking at a trail 50 miler early October. The same trail run has a 30 mile option which I guess technically is an ultra but I would rather complete the 50. Not sure how I would handle it, I guess ease back into running after Ironman and re-taper.

I know this isnt a far comparison but I raced a 70.3 and felt good the very next weekend. I ran 16 miles 1 week after the race as I had a late season marathon to train for. It wasnt fast and I could tell I wasnt at my best but it wasnt horrible either.

So who has done it? Very doable? Terrible idea?


2013-12-27 10:26 AM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
No problem for those with "gifted" genetics. For me, it would turn into a very long day! I sign up for a lot of stuff, but this really does strike me as too much too soon!

Odds are you won't be putting in the kind of time on your feet for IM training to give you a comfortable day on a 50-mile course. While all the biking is nice, I don't really think it translates directly into ultra fitness. On top of that, most people feel like they need a little rest time post-IM. You really wouldn't have any time for recovery and then build/taper for the Ultra. If there's a 50k option, I suspect that would be something you could suffer through, especially if you were realistic about time goals and went plenty slow from the start, but a 50-miler is going to be rough.

The closest I've come to this was a marathon about a month after IM. While I finished, it was a long morning. I went out at a reasonable pace, but only felt good for about half the race. Ended up about 20-minutes slower than expected.

50-mile races are great, but I'd be looking for one later in the winter....giving yourself at least a few months to recover from the IM, shift gears, and put in some long runs! The nice part about this schedule is that there are a ton of ultras in winter and spring! You could always throw a few 50k events in there as training / test races!

2013-12-27 2:32 PM
in reply to: g_shotts

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
I think your question should better be phrased as "who has done an Ironman shortly before an Ultra". Humbly, I suggest, that racing a 50 miler is harder than racing an IM.

If you intend on racing the Ironman you will still be spent 3 weeks later. If the run is in the hills, god help you. If you simply mail in the IM, then I would say a 50 miler is no problem, in fact the IM would be a darn good training session especially if you played it close to bonking, great conditioning to use fat as a fuel source. Similarly if you mail in the 50 miler then I doubt you will have a problem, although it may be much more difficult than you expect.

I have done similar crazy things. I ran a 50 miler in the mountains, than the next week a 26.2 through the mountains, then 2 weeks later a 100 miler on exceptionally steep slopes. Felt awesome on the 50 miler, darn near died on the 26.2 (even though I tried to mail it in) and DNFed in spectacular fashion the 100 miler. Of note, I had a great time on the 100 miler the next year with far less training, being in poorer shape, but without the insane race schedule.

Really it depends on your training and your experience and your bodies ability to recover. With everything being an unknown, I would try it for sure. You learn a lot.
2013-12-29 10:12 AM
in reply to: BigDH

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Originally posted by BigDH

I think your question should better be phrased as "who has done an Ironman shortly before an Ultra". Humbly, I suggest, that racing a 50 miler is harder than racing an IM.

If you intend on racing the Ironman you will still be spent 3 weeks later. If the run is in the hills, god help you. If you simply mail in the IM, then I would say a 50 miler is no problem, in fact the IM would be a darn good training session especially if you played it close to bonking, great conditioning to use fat as a fuel source. Similarly if you mail in the 50 miler then I doubt you will have a problem, although it may be much more difficult than you expect.

I have done similar crazy things. I ran a 50 miler in the mountains, than the next week a 26.2 through the mountains, then 2 weeks later a 100 miler on exceptionally steep slopes. Felt awesome on the 50 miler, darn near died on the 26.2 (even though I tried to mail it in) and DNFed in spectacular fashion the 100 miler. Of note, I had a great time on the 100 miler the next year with far less training, being in poorer shape, but without the insane race schedule.

Really it depends on your training and your experience and your bodies ability to recover. With everything being an unknown, I would try it for sure. You learn a lot.


So really bad idea here..... This is my first Ironman and planning on max effort whatever that maybe. No frame of reference on recovery, the 70.3 and a marathon are my longest races. Both challenging but not all day effort like Ironman.

I may have to look for a later 50, and/or not sign up for anything until post IM (see how I feel). My problem right now is cabin fever. Last winter I signed up for a whole bunch of races, a whole bunch. Way to many. I had 3 in three days one weekend. Friday night 5K, Saturday 13.1, Sunday Sprint tri. The sprint was a struggle....

Because of IMWI I am forcing myself to keep late spring-IM very light, only a couple races. It is mentally hard not to sign up for a bunch of stuff. Naturally I have started looking post race for stuff to sign up for.

Thanks for the input! I knew deep down it was a really bad idea, I just hadnt admitted it yet
2013-12-30 3:41 PM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Sucks you are having a hard time with an easy race schedule. But if you are putting all your eggs in the IM basket I don't know what else a sane person would do. Not sure why you have cabin fever though. Base training is awesome. Work on your form in the pool. Start a run intensive program. Enjoy not worrying about results for a little while. There is tons of stuff to keep you busy and put you in better shape for getting through IM training.
2013-12-31 4:20 AM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
I had a similar problem last year while training for my first full distance - found it hard to miss out on races but it was all for the greater good! As mentioned above I enjoyed the initial build up phase - no pressure on times, distance and actually enjoyed the challenge of building up to training nearly every day.


2014-01-01 7:38 AM
in reply to: grahamclarke_6

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
I signed up for a 5K...... I am resisting the urge to even look for more post IMWI races to do. I would still like to do the 30 mile option at the ultra a month after IM though. I put it on my race calendar but will resist signing up for anything post IM until the week after. Well maybe just something short My town has a 10K the week after I always do to. There is a 2 mile run/walk option, prob sign my 7 year old and I up for that as a no pressure fun run.
2014-01-01 6:03 PM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Reading this thread made me think about my current dilemma: What am I going to do if I get into both the Kona and Wasatch 100 lotteries.
2014-01-01 7:05 PM
in reply to: #4918577

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Hey there!
I actually just asked the same question to some of my triathlete friends who have completed an Ironman or two.
Basically my idea was to run the ultra in August, and then do a 70.3 IM in October.
Their point was ( a very valid one), race conditions make you want to race, plain and simple AND after such long time on your feet (or basically using your whole body), you'll need 3-4 weeks to semi recover (unless of course, like someone said on an earlier thread, you're genetically gifted and heal beyond fast).
No time to heal, may mean... Having a rough time on the next race, and maybe injure yourself.
After their advised, I've decided to wait until 2015 for my 70.3, and do my ultra as planned this year (I like to race once a month, but the ultra will be closing the season)
2014-01-01 8:20 PM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Why do you want to do the 50 miler?

I went the other way around and did a 50 miler(McNaughton, now Potowatomi) 10 weeks prior to IMCdA in 2009. I did it as a long training day and was prepared to pull the plug rather than jeopardize my IM. As it turned out, the run went very well).

I was signed up for Steelhead (HIM) 5 weeks after IMCdA and DNS'd because I crashed during IMCdA and broke my collarbone. Stuff like that happens, so consider that before you drop money on a post-IM race.

I would say that you'll definitely be fatigued going into the 50-miler and that greatly increases your risk of injury. Also consider when you'll get your trail runs in before your IM. Running trails is a lot different than running on the road, so are you going to train for your IM on the trails? (Again, in my case, I was ramping up for the trail run far earlier than what I needed for the IM.)
2014-01-02 10:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Originally posted by Danielavmar

Hey there!
I actually just asked the same question to some of my triathlete friends who have completed an Ironman or two.
Basically my idea was to run the ultra in August, and then do a 70.3 IM in October.
Their point was ( a very valid one), race conditions make you want to race, plain and simple AND after such long time on your feet (or basically using your whole body), you'll need 3-4 weeks to semi recover (unless of course, like someone said on an earlier thread, you're genetically gifted and heal beyond fast).
No time to heal, may mean... Having a rough time on the next race, and maybe injure yourself.
After their advised, I've decided to wait until 2015 for my 70.3, and do my ultra as planned this year (I like to race once a month, but the ultra will be closing the season)


I have started to supplement amino acids and am recovering extremely well from grueling workouts that used to tear me up. That said Ironman and an Ultra will be new levels of abuse for me so dont know how I will recovery. I will get my frame of reference on the IM at least this year

McFuzz: To answer your question why do any of us seek such abuse? I am no longer obese, in great shape, ran a marathon, doing IM why more? Running has changed for me. At first it was short and fast. I wanted that 5K PR, wanted to chase down the teenagers, as fast as possible. That was before I ramped up for the marathon..... The long runs interest me more now. Relaxing, settle in to a comfortable pace not a sprint, time and miles pass without a care in the world. The trail is there, I am here. Why not 50? Why not 100? Maybe not this year but want to complete both.

Not sure about 2015 yet. I may do IMWI two years in a row. Post IM 2015 or 2016 whenever that maybe I plan to seek out Ultras.

Edited by Paulford8 2014-01-02 10:21 AM


2014-01-03 12:37 PM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Originally posted by Paulford8

Originally posted by Danielavmar

Hey there!
I actually just asked the same question to some of my triathlete friends who have completed an Ironman or two.
Basically my idea was to run the ultra in August, and then do a 70.3 IM in October.
Their point was ( a very valid one), race conditions make you want to race, plain and simple AND after such long time on your feet (or basically using your whole body), you'll need 3-4 weeks to semi recover (unless of course, like someone said on an earlier thread, you're genetically gifted and heal beyond fast).
No time to heal, may mean... Having a rough time on the next race, and maybe injure yourself.
After their advised, I've decided to wait until 2015 for my 70.3, and do my ultra as planned this year (I like to race once a month, but the ultra will be closing the season)


I have started to supplement amino acids and am recovering extremely well from grueling workouts that used to tear me up. That said Ironman and an Ultra will be new levels of abuse for me so dont know how I will recovery. I will get my frame of reference on the IM at least this year

McFuzz: To answer your question why do any of us seek such abuse? I am no longer obese, in great shape, ran a marathon, doing IM why more? Running has changed for me. At first it was short and fast. I wanted that 5K PR, wanted to chase down the teenagers, as fast as possible. That was before I ramped up for the marathon..... The long runs interest me more now. Relaxing, settle in to a comfortable pace not a sprint, time and miles pass without a care in the world. The trail is there, I am here. Why not 50? Why not 100? Maybe not this year but want to complete both.

Not sure about 2015 yet. I may do IMWI two years in a row. Post IM 2015 or 2016 whenever that maybe I plan to seek out Ultras.


Why do you want to run *that* ultra a month after IMoo? Consider the risk of DNS'ing IMoo '15 (which you said you want to do) because you hurt yourself in an ultra that you had no *compelling* reason to attempt and spend 6 months out of commission.

I don't advocate deferring dreams and goals. What seems reasonable to put off for another year might not every happen because we aren't guaranteed tomorrow. If the rewards for attempting *that* ultra are high enough to justify the risks, go for it! If not, make a different plan.
2014-01-04 6:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?


Because it is after. My original quest was to find an ultra after IM that was semi local. I could look for a later one I guess and either brave the cold or go south. I have seen people recover at different rates from IM events, and have already been warned of common post IM depression. So I maybe laid up and depressed post IM or may recover well... I will find out!

If I pushed it and got torn up in an ultra your right that would be bad as 2015 will have a new set of races to work on.

I have an early 26.2 this year, so that maybe the long for the year. Another part of the reason is I am impatient. It put an ultra on the list so I want to run one. In reality ultras will always be around and I have plenty of time.

Edited by Paulford8 2014-01-04 6:57 AM
2014-01-04 8:13 AM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
I've done 3 Ironman and 5 50 milers....the first couple 50 milers where harder on my body then any of the Ironmans. I have done Half ironmans only 3-4 weeks after a 50 miler with no swim or bike training(except teaching spin class a couple times a week) but mostly just run training and have had no issues but I havent done an ultra after shortly after an Ironman...for me I think I would rather do the Ironman shortly after the Ultra.

Now the 100 miler - well that one is hard to say what it feels like but they say you dont ever forget the pain of childbirth and after it I woulda rather birthed twins!! But I was already trying to see which 100 was next a day or so after it.
2014-01-05 8:17 AM
in reply to: #4918577

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Doable? Yup. Did a 50 miler six weeks after ironman in 2011. Is it smart? Who knows. Bottom line is that if you want to do it, then do it.
2014-01-05 4:32 PM
in reply to: Jungle Jenn

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Originally posted by Jungle Jenn

I've done 3 Ironman and 5 50 milers....the first couple 50 milers where harder on my body then any of the Ironmans. I have done Half ironmans only 3-4 weeks after a 50 miler with no swim or bike training(except teaching spin class a couple times a week) but mostly just run training and have had no issues but I havent done an ultra after shortly after an Ironman...for me I think I would rather do the Ironman shortly after the Ultra.

Now the 100 miler - well that one is hard to say what it feels like but they say you dont ever forget the pain of childbirth and after it I woulda rather birthed twins!! But I was already trying to see which 100 was next a day or so after it.


The next day?!?!?!?! The day after my 70.3, and the 26.2 I was questioning my desire to take on longer races. The marathon was harder for me, couldnt walk up/down the stairs at work, but I do NOT take the elevator so I had a hard time for a couple days. Probably 2-3 days before I warmed up to the idea of longer races again. I felt pretty good within a week but those first couple days.... Torn up!


2014-01-06 7:47 AM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?

Hey Paul.  Here's my .02c.  Which 50 miler are you thinking of doing?  The one right by Peoria at Farmdale?  I was thinking of doing the same one if that's it.  Or Evergreen..  Anyways back on subject here.  You will be hurting after IMWI.  Hurting.  I guess it depends on how "hard" you go during IM but, you know me and I "raced" it to the best of my ability after all my setbacks that day with the bike breaking.  That run course at IMWI is going to beat you into a pulp.  Especially the hills out around mile 6 or wherever they were.  It's more like a straight up mountain...(at least I was thinking WTF is this mountain doing in Madison?!?!)  Anyways back onto my point.  Six days after I did IMWI they had a local 10k I had signed up for.  The first day I ran after IMWI was on Thursday that week and it was a hard 4.5 miles...very hard.  Your' legs are going to be hurting and still very sore...did I mention sore?  I did the 10k but about one mile into it I was thinking...Chris...why did you sign up for this!?!?!  It hurt and I still finished 2nd overall but that was all will power and guts that kept me ahead of the 3rd place guy. 

 

I think it just depends on how much recovery you have.  If it's only 3-4 weeks I don't think it's worth the risk of doing the 50 miler.  Because IMWI you will need a full two weeks of recovery IMO before your' legs are back to "normal" at least in my experience.  Granted I'm only 29 and recover faster than most people.  I recovered from my 70.3 in about two days fully this year.  I went hard at that race and had a brutal run.  Went 4:37:45s at that race which was fairly fast I think.  I felt great a couple days later but the difference between 70.3 is a lot.

Another thing to think about as well is maybe email the RD and see if you can sign up for the 50 miler and if needed drop down to the 50k during the race.  I think farmdale lets you do that.  I believe you are ineligible for awards at that point but you still get a finisher's medal probably.  We need to get a training day in up on that bike course this summer!  Hit me up ahead of time to let me know when you are going!

2014-01-06 9:41 AM
in reply to: Bevie

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
Thanks for the offer! Come spring I will let you know, want to hit IMWI bike loops at least twice before the race. I was considering 1 organized ride and 1 time just go ride it but will figure out details later. If you or somebody else that is familiar with it met me I wouldnt really need the organized ride.

Thanks for the insight, you just shot down my other post IM race plan. My town has an annual 10K the week after IMWI, guess I wont sign on this year.... They have a 2 mile fun run option I can run with my boy so that will work just fine.

Yes Farmdale 50! They have a 10K, 13 mile, 30 and the 50. I plan to run something at Farmdale this year even if it is just the 10K or 13. I want to join the ranks of Ironman finishers so my goal is to just get across the finish line before cutoff. That said I plan to give it my best effort and will be happy if I finish with little to nothing left in the tank.

I will contact the Farmdale RD and if there is no rush I will wait until after IM. If the week after I feel decent maybe the 30, if I am still totally trashed after a week maybe the 10K
2014-02-15 9:17 PM
in reply to: Paulford8

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Subject: RE: Who has done an ultra shortly after an Ironman?
All right, I know I'm an idiot, but I just want to know if this is possible. I'm doing ironman Chattanooga in late September, a friend asked me to do a 100 mile run on the second weekend of December. I would like to do both, but I'm signed up for the ironman. Is this enough time to recover and get some more long runs in to maybe gut it out? I've never run past 30miles at one time.
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