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2014-01-07 7:14 AM

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Subject: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Santa brought me a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine for Christmas, and so far I'm liking it. Stable, smooth and quiet.

My questions:

1. When I ride outside, I usually average around 19 mph. (I'm still a cycling newbie, but I'm working on it. ) On the KK, I rode around 15 mph, with what I thought was pretty good Rate of Perceived Exertion, similar to my 19 mph rides. Anyone else notice this with their KK Road Machine, or am I just dogging it?

2. I found two different formulas online to convert speed to power for the KK Road Machine, I'm using this one in an excel spreadsheet: P=S^3*0.019168+S*5.24482. Is this the correct one? How accurate is this power estimation?

3. I loosen the knob at the back to free the tire after each ride, but leave the bike clamped into the trainer. Is it ok to leave my bike clamped onto the KK all the time?



2014-01-07 7:16 AM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Do not compare trainer speed/power/whatever to outside. Compare trainer rides to previous trainer rides.

I had a bump in a trainer tire from leaving it in so I would suggest not doing that

2014-01-07 7:26 AM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
As Daniel said don't compare outside to inside, they are not the same.

I use the Inride on my KK so I'm not familiar with any conversions, sorry.

You are fine to leave the bike clamped in. Just take the pressure off the tire. I leave mine clamped in all winter.
2014-01-07 7:34 AM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions

1) You cannot compare mph between on the road vs, trainer.  I have a Cycleops Fluid 2 and 16.5 on the trainer feels about the same as 20 on the road.  I pay little attention to speed on the trainer other than to compare to previous sessions.

2) I do not know a great deal about power other than it is difficult to get accurate readings without a meter.

3) My bike has been attached to my trainer for years.  I only take it off when I ride outdoors in the summer.  Though I do release the tension from the wheel when not in use to prevent any tire distortion.

2014-01-07 8:24 AM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Originally posted by DannyII

Santa brought me a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine for Christmas, and so far I'm liking it. Stable, smooth and quiet.

My questions:

1. When I ride outside, I usually average around 19 mph. (I'm still a cycling newbie, but I'm working on it. ) On the KK, I rode around 15 mph, with what I thought was pretty good Rate of Perceived Exertion, similar to my 19 mph rides. Anyone else notice this with their KK Road Machine, or am I just dogging it?

2. I found two different formulas online to convert speed to power for the KK Road Machine, I'm using this one in an excel spreadsheet: P=S^3*0.019168+S*5.24482. Is this the correct one? How accurate is this power estimation?

3. I loosen the knob at the back to free the tire after each ride, but leave the bike clamped into the trainer. Is it ok to leave my bike clamped onto the KK all the time?




1) Too many variables to ever match.. you could potentially get close by adjusting tension on the rear wheel, but then it would most likely slip every time you go to accelerate.. compare trainer to trainer only. plus with riding outside a simple wind can make your speed drastically change.

2) TrainerRoad has a great overview of virtual power, which is what using this curve is: http://www.trainerroad.com/features/virtual-power

3) Make sure you free the back tire. Leaving it clamped in is fine.
2014-01-07 8:53 AM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Originally posted by DannyII

Santa brought me a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine for Christmas, and so far I'm liking it. Stable, smooth and quiet.

My questions:

1. When I ride outside, I usually average around 19 mph. (I'm still a cycling newbie, but I'm working on it. ) On the KK, I rode around 15 mph, with what I thought was pretty good Rate of Perceived Exertion, similar to my 19 mph rides. Anyone else notice this with their KK Road Machine, or am I just dogging it?

2. I found two different formulas online to convert speed to power for the KK Road Machine, I'm using this one in an excel spreadsheet: P=S^3*0.019168+S*5.24482. Is this the correct one? How accurate is this power estimation?

3. I loosen the knob at the back to free the tire after each ride, but leave the bike clamped into the trainer. Is it ok to leave my bike clamped onto the KK all the time?




A couple of things

The KK is designed to try and simulate real world speeds. It does this with a power curve that is what you would see in the real world.

If I take the formula you provided 20MPH = 258w, 22MPH = 319w, 24MPH = 390w

If I take the bike power calculator, 160lb rider on the hoods, 1MPH headwind, .2% grade 258w=20.45 mph, 319=22.24, 390w=24mph. Pretty close

So I would say, loosen up the wheel a bit if you want to get closer to your PE/Speed balance.

I have managed to get my KK to be very close to my powertap by adjusting the tension.

One way to keep this constant and not damage the tire is to never touch the knob, deflate/reinflate to equal pressure on each ride or to remove the bike.





2014-01-07 10:58 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Ok, sounds like leaving it clamped on the trainer is ok.

As for wheel tightness, I currently turn the knob two full turns after wheel contact. Is this what everyone else does?
2014-01-07 2:41 PM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions

Originally posted by DannyII I'm using this one in an excel spreadsheet: P=S^3*0.019168+S*5.24482. Is this the correct one?
that's the correct formula, the old formula did not have the 2nd 1 digit, 0.01968.

Ok, sounds like leaving it clamped on the trainer is ok. As for wheel tightness, I currently turn the knob two full turns after wheel contact. Is this what everyone else does?
See what it takes for a spin down check from 20mph to 0.  Its been posted on BT previously that a 13.8 sec spin down is suppose to line up with the kk power/speed curve.  My KK trainer with my continetal trainer tire at 105-110psi it takes ~2.5 turns to get ~14 seconds after the resitance unit has been warmed up (10min), .

BTW, I have the BT cycling plan all setup in a spreadsheet if you are interested in it.

 

2014-01-07 3:21 PM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Originally posted by DannyII

Ok, sounds like leaving it clamped on the trainer is ok.

As for wheel tightness, I currently turn the knob two full turns after wheel contact. Is this what everyone else does?

Yes.

But...if I feel like the wheel is "slipping" or squeaking in the back I will add tension with an extra turn or two. Usually does the trick.

Enjoy the KK! Probably one of the best investments I'd ever made in my health and cycling performance. Even though we can ride year round here, it's convenient to hop on the trainer if you have limited time.
2014-01-07 3:38 PM
in reply to: Bunsbert Montcroff

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions

So tightening the tension will get rid of the squeaking? Mine's recently started doing that. I been looking into buying a spare/trainer tire. Any one else have expereince with this? I feel like my current riding tire is getting a lot of wear.

2014-01-07 4:04 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Originally posted by Bunsbert Montcroff

Originally posted by DannyII

Ok, sounds like leaving it clamped on the trainer is ok.

As for wheel tightness, I currently turn the knob two full turns after wheel contact. Is this what everyone else does?

Yes.

But...if I feel like the wheel is "slipping" or squeaking in the back I will add tension with an extra turn or two. Usually does the trick.

Enjoy the KK! Probably one of the best investments I'd ever made in my health and cycling performance. Even though we can ride year round here, it's convenient to hop on the trainer if you have limited time.


I definitely cannot ride year round here! We have about 10" of snow on the ground, and it was -14* F this morning!

I can already see the utility of using the KK in the early am, or after dark, or when it rains... Also, my bike "fit" was me trying to get it close while riding. Much easier to do on the trainer!

Also - I have a Conti trainer tire inbound from Amazon right now. I think I'm going to build a trainer specific wheel so the swapping out is easier.

Edited by DannyII 2014-01-07 4:05 PM


2014-01-07 4:07 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by DannyII I'm using this one in an excel spreadsheet: P=S^3*0.019168+S*5.24482. Is this the correct one?
that's the correct formula, the old formula did not have the 2nd 1 digit, 0.01968.

Ok, sounds like leaving it clamped on the trainer is ok. As for wheel tightness, I currently turn the knob two full turns after wheel contact. Is this what everyone else does?
See what it takes for a spin down check from 20mph to 0.  Its been posted on BT previously that a 13.8 sec spin down is suppose to line up with the kk power/speed curve.  My KK trainer with my continetal trainer tire at 105-110psi it takes ~2.5 turns to get ~14 seconds after the resitance unit has been warmed up (10min), .

BTW, I have the BT cycling plan all setup in a spreadsheet if you are interested in it.

 




PM sent.

thanks!
2014-01-07 8:13 PM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
As already noted, you have the correct formula. It is reported to be fairly accurate - as long as you have the rear wheel tension set-up appropriately. But more importantly it's quite consistent. I do 98% of my riding on the KK, and so I have spent hundreds of hours staring at speed data and comparing it against effort.

I leave my bike in the KK pretty much all the time, except on the rare occasions when I take it out to ride outside. I have a Gatorskin tire on the rear wheel, and that seems to be pretty darn bulletproof. I haven't noticed any wheel distortions. I try to keep the tire well inflated, and use coast-down time from 20mph as the calibration measure: I aim for around 13s.

Good luck. The KK is a great piece of equipment. Best biking investment I ever made.
2014-01-07 10:28 PM
in reply to: DannyII

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Subject: RE: Kurt Kinetic Road machine questions
Forget power measurements. Use heart rate and cadence. To convert a speedometer with no cadence to measure cadence...
1.) Calibrate the wheel size to 1667 mm
2.) Set the display to km/hr
3.) Secure a magnet to the left crank
4.) Secure the sensor to the downtube. Use pads to get the sensor close to the magnet. Point the top of a wireless sensor at the display on the handlebar.

Everyone concentrates on trying to stay in certain heart zones, but fewer people pay attention to cadence. When heart rate is at anerobic threshold, and cadence is too low, power will be lower because muscle use more force and build up lactic acid sooner. At AT and very high cadence, technique limits power output as muscles misfire. Monitoring power by itself doesn't let you know if you are in the optimal heartrate/cadence zones.
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