General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Training with TT bike Rss Feed  
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2014-01-10 9:49 PM

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Subject: Training with TT bike
I recently got my first TT bike and have a HIM in March and my first Ironman in May. My cycling is weak and handling skills are ordinary.

Should I just do all my training in the TT bike until my Ironman or still use the road bike. I generally do 2 wind trainer sets a week and a long ride at the weekend. I wouldn't use the TT bike on the wind trainer...unless folks suggest its a good idea...

I have only done 3 short rides in the new bike...like it...but very different to the road bike...

appreciate thoughts and guidance


2014-01-10 10:21 PM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike

if your long ride is on the TT bike i don't see an issue, put your hands on the horns occasionally if you get uncormfortable.  indoor rides are meant to build power, outdoor rides are for base and handling.. at least per the workout structure you are describing.

since i got used to riding my TT bike i stopped riding it except for 10-20 easy miles the week before a race.  just takes getting used to.

2014-01-10 10:21 PM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike

Ride it and ride it often to get use to it.  You have plenty of time to adapt to it before the HIM.  Being more aero will be beneficial, you'll be faster at the same wattage.

My brand new Felt B12 is sitting on the trainer right now, it'll have 3:1 rides on it vs. outdoors.

2014-01-11 4:37 AM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
logged on to ask exactly this question too! Santa must have been busy!
2014-01-11 6:08 AM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
I don't even own a road bike. So I guess you know what my suggestion would be.
2014-01-11 6:12 AM
in reply to: Calvin386

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by Calvin386

I don't even own a road bike. So I guess you know what my suggestion would be.

X2, train what you race on


2014-01-11 6:58 AM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by Donto

Ride it and ride it often to get use to it.  You have plenty of time to adapt to it before the HIM.  Being more aero will be beneficial, you'll be faster at the same wattage.

My brand new Felt B12 is sitting on the trainer right now, it'll have 3:1 rides on it vs. outdoors.




So is my brand-new Felt B2 - her nickname is "Miss Cryin' Shame," because since I purchase the bike, it has been outdoors exactly once, for about 9 miles - all that wind-slicing carbon fiber, sitting in my basement on the trainer . . .

The TT bike will have a lot of small differences - it targets your hamstrings and quadriceps a little differently, the saddle fitment is a little different, sitting in aero stresses different muscles in the back in different ways - all these little things add up. You want more than just "adjustment," you want unity - when you stop thinking about the shifters and stop thinking about the elbow pads and it just flows naturally, without thinking.
2014-01-11 8:15 AM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by getfitfast

I recently got my first TT bike and have a HIM in March and my first Ironman in May. My cycling is weak and handling skills are ordinary.

Should I just do all my training in the TT bike until my Ironman or still use the road bike. I generally do 2 wind trainer sets a week and a long ride at the weekend. I wouldn't use the TT bike on the wind trainer...unless folks suggest its a good idea...

I have only done 3 short rides in the new bike...like it...but very different to the road bike...

appreciate thoughts and guidance


For sure you want to spend time in aero to get used to it. Ride what is SAFE.
Pros spend a lot of time on their road bikes for a reason.
Try to find road with long stretches so you don't have to brake fast
Find road with a lot of shoulder so if you wobble a bit you will be ok
Some people's visibility is reduced with their head down. Be aware of this
Don't ride behind someone in aero and if a ride has to be done sitting up for safety reasons, you are actually better off on your road bike.
Your reaction time on a tri bike will be slower. You cannot get to the brakes as quickly and you can't steer as quickly.
Be careful of strong cross winds. This can throw you off a little at first in aero

Go slowly, build up, but stay safe

2014-01-11 8:22 AM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
I think it's okay to continue to ride your road bike for some of your training if you enjoy it. That said, I would be sure to spend more time on your TT bike leading up to the HIM, perhaps gradually increasing the time that you spend riding it. That way you will be comfortable in time for your race. As far as the trainer goes, it's fine to ride your TT indoors as it will help you get used to riding in the aero position more. I will leave my Blue Triad SP on all winter long.
2014-01-11 12:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike

Originally posted by tedjohn I think it's okay to continue to ride your road bike for some of your training if you enjoy it. That said, I would be sure to spend more time on your TT bike leading up to the HIM, perhaps gradually increasing the time that you spend riding it. That way you will be comfortable in time for your race. As far as the trainer goes, it's fine to ride your TT indoors as it will help you get used to riding in the aero position more. I will leave my Blue Triad SP on all winter long.

x2

Note the entire purpose of a triathlon bike is to put the big huge non-aerodynamic body of the rider into the best possible aerodynamic position. That doesn't work if you don't ride it in aero position, so you need to ride it in aero position as much as possible in a race to gain the most benefit. It takes time in the saddle (and a good fit) to be able to ride 56 (then 112) miles nearly all in aero, so you need to get that time.  Trainer time, road time, etc. 

Given that the tri bike is new to you, it might be best to put that road bike away and just focus mastering aero position riding and tri bike handling for your upcoming race.  March and May are coming up very soon!



Edited by brucemorgan 2014-01-11 12:43 PM
2014-01-11 7:00 PM
in reply to: brucemorgan

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
When I got my TT bike I found that staying aero was really uncomfortable after about an hour (yes, I had a professional fit). I'm not the most flexible guy and I literally had to train to ride aero.

I've got a nice carbon road bike but I rarely ride it...I need to ride the bike I'm going to race, indoors and out.


2014-01-11 11:23 PM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Thanks all for the feedback. The consensus appears to be to stick to the TT bike for the remainder of the year.

Some practical questions....my TT bike has an 11 speed Ultegra group set and I have Mavic Cosmic race wheels on it. I'm concerned about trashing my race wheels by doing all may training for the next 5 months on the TT bike, with 2 out of 3 weekly sessions on the wind trainer.

Am I unduly concerned and can I overcome this with more durable tires on the race wheels? Any thoughts?
2014-01-12 6:47 AM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
The replies telling you to ride the TT bike are all right. However, I don't do that so am just giving you a contrary view to consider.

* I'm not very flexible and have trouble maintaining TT position on my TT bike.

* My favourite ride is the long Sunday one in the English country side chatting to friends and enjoying the view.

* I'm a MOP triathlete who does triathlon for the lifestyle more than the times (although one should lead to the other)

Because of these factors I've set up my TT bike on the turbo and a few times a week I try and do as long as I can in the TT position (only up to 20 minutes so far) - and while I'm doing it I can tweak things like seat and bars.

I do all my outside training on the road bike because it's more enjoyable and safer. It also protects the expensive TT bike a bit from the elements.

Two months before my first triathlon I'll switch to using the TT bike almost exclusively to dial in my race position and do some of those breakthrough workouts. Also to get used to handling the bike again (something that can't be done on the turbo).

I'm not convinced I would be much better if I rode on the TT bike all the time.
2014-01-12 7:23 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike

Originally posted by getfitfast Thanks all for the feedback. The consensus appears to be to stick to the TT bike for the remainder of the year. Some practical questions....my TT bike has an 11 speed Ultegra group set and I have Mavic Cosmic race wheels on it. I'm concerned about trashing my race wheels by doing all may training for the next 5 months on the TT bike, with 2 out of 3 weekly sessions on the wind trainer. Am I unduly concerned and can I overcome this with more durable tires on the race wheels? Any thoughts?

It's a reasonable concern that lots of people have had, and in short many people do train on race wheels with more durable tires. 

There are a few things to think about. First, durability of the wheel.  Lots of people are concerned about breaking expensive race wheels with frequent training rides, especially if they ride on low quality roads, hit potholes occasionally, etc. You should do some research to see how durable Mavic Cosmic wheels are for people training on them. I'm pretty sure they have a good reputation for durability, but I don't own them. I own Zipp 404s and they have a bombproof reputation and many people train with them.

Second, appropriateness of the tire for your riding conditions. You're in Sydney, I see, so you're in summer training right now, and with your year-round weather you don't need winter training tires like I do here in the Seattle area. I use Gatorskins for training because I've never once had a flat with them. It's easy to flat where I ride, especially in the late winter/early spring when glass on the roadway can't be seen - it's too mixed in with roadside debris. And the trainer would chew up a race tire; Gatorskins seem to work OK in the trainer.

Third, hassle and expense. I have a low hassle tolerance, so doing things like swapping tires for weather or taking the bike on/off the trainer is never going to happen. I hear people do that, nutty as it sounds to me. And the most expensive combination you can get is having a set of race wheels AND a set of training wheels.

So my personal answer for years was to ride on the Zipp 404s with Gatorskins, and switch to race tires for race day. Occasionally I'd hit a pothole or some such and worry about the race wheels, but never enough to want to spend the $$$ on training wheels. Then I was lucky enough to be given a nice set of Mavic wheels, free!  So now they have the Gatorskins and the Zipps have race tires, and I swap wheels. Indoor and bad weather gets the Mavics otherwise I'm on the Zipps. For rainy race days I ride Zipps with Gatorskins (yes, swapping tires is a huge hassle).

BTW I forgot to put on the training wheels last September 29th for a rainy day ride. Instead I was on the Zipps with race tires. I crashed, broke my collarbone, needed surgery, and I'm still recovering. I've had to drop out of two Ironman races. I'm not blaming the tire for my crash - I wasn't paying enough attention and entered a turn way too fast - but still I wonder that had the rear tire been a Gatorskin instead of Vittoria Diamante Pro, perhaps it would not have broken loose. The Vittoria claims to have good wet weather traction, but I can't recall riding it in the rain before.



Edited by brucemorgan 2014-01-12 7:25 AM
2014-01-12 8:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
With a race only a few months away, you need to spend as much time as possible on the tri bike (and I assume that it's a tri bike, not a TT bike… there's technical differences). You can get used to the bike in a few weeks, but it usually takes 3-12 months to get fully accustomed to a change in position. And that's all assuming that you have had a proper fit done already, if not, you may very well get slower than you would on a well-fitting road bike….

I see no reason what so ever why you would NOT use the tri bike on the trainer. It's a great way to get used to the change in position from your road bike. Obviously, use the steel skewer and a trainer tire as you would normally do on a trainer.

During the season, I spend about 30% of my time on my tri bike and the rest on my road bike. That's the split I have between solo rides and group rides (wouldn't ride the tri bike in a group ride although 2 of my 3 groups would have no problem with it). In the winter season (read on the trainer…) I spend the vast majority of my time on my tri bike (although right now my road bike is set up on the trainer as I took apart my tri bike to change some components around).

Edited by audiojan 2014-01-12 8:29 AM
2014-01-12 9:42 AM
in reply to: audiojan

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
I started on a road bike.. then got the tri bug.. had to have a tri bike.

sold the road bike and never looked back. i ride my tri for everything. 100+ mile rides and hill climbs.

I also had a fit for the bike. but for a few weeks i carried tools to make minor adjustments. now i`m more comfortable on the aero bars.

the only downside of just a tri bike is ..... the roadies are afraid of being impaled by the bars, or they believe we can not stop or control our bikes. and they are not welcome in road races or group rides. kinda funny since in triathlons no gets impaled and the riders seam able to control their bikes


2014-01-12 10:06 AM
in reply to: getfitfast

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
I have a nice custom steel bike.

But since I discovered tri, I ride my entry level QR Kilo tri bike 90% of the time while the Indy Fab languishes

IMO, the placing of critical controls on two separate locations made me a better rider. I am more aware of developing situations during a ride and can preempt them, I also smoothed out the transition from aero to handle bar and vice versa. I use my Kilo for centuries, climbing, fast group rides and everything else, that way, on Tri day, I straddle it and the familiarity is instantly there.
2014-01-12 10:34 AM
in reply to: ranman69

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by ranman69

the only downside of just a tri bike is ..... the roadies are afraid of being impaled by the bars, or they believe we can not stop or control our bikes. and they are not welcome in road races or group rides. kinda funny since in triathlons no gets impaled and the riders seam able to control their bikes


Never heard the argument of being impaled… but both stopping and handling the bike are valid arguments. Especially stopping. You're not going to stop as fast if you try to transition from the aero bars to the brakes compared to just being right at the brakes… a tri bike does handle different than a road bike, by design, they are slightly slower and less nimble. You can easily argue that a tri bike can be ridden in a group if only on the brakes, but then how do you shift? (unless you have electronic shifting, which is actually one of the reasons why that makes more sense on a tri bike than on a road bike…). Still, the fact is that there's groups out there that simply do not allow you to ride on a tri bike, right, wrong or indifferent, it can limit the use of the bike...
2014-01-12 10:53 AM
in reply to: audiojan

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by audiojan

Originally posted by ranman69

the only downside of just a tri bike is ..... the roadies are afraid of being impaled by the bars, or they believe we can not stop or control our bikes. and they are not welcome in road races or group rides. kinda funny since in triathlons no gets impaled and the riders seam able to control their bikes


Never heard the argument of being impaled… but both stopping and handling the bike are valid arguments. Especially stopping. You're not going to stop as fast if you try to transition from the aero bars to the brakes compared to just being right at the brakes… a tri bike does handle different than a road bike, by design, they are slightly slower and less nimble. You can easily argue that a tri bike can be ridden in a group if only on the brakes, but then how do you shift? (unless you have electronic shifting, which is actually one of the reasons why that makes more sense on a tri bike than on a road bike…). Still, the fact is that there's groups out there that simply do not allow you to ride on a tri bike, right, wrong or indifferent, it can limit the use of the bike...


no way should a TT bike be used in a group. Far too dangerous. Amazed anyone can think otherwise
2014-01-12 11:30 AM
in reply to: Dan-L

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike

Originally posted by Dan-L ...no way should a TT bike be used in a group. Far too dangerous. Amazed anyone can think otherwise

I have Di2 on my TT bike.  When in a group, I ride with my hands on the bullhorns so that I have shifters and brakes in my hands.

so... 'almost' no way.  I've found (or...uh... paid for) a way.

2014-01-12 11:34 AM
in reply to: Dan-L

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by Dan-L



no way should a TT bike be used in a group. Far too dangerous. Amazed anyone can think otherwise


Thanks for sharing your limitations.


2014-01-12 12:34 PM
in reply to: BikesOfALesserGod

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by BikesOfALesserGod

I have a nice custom steel bike.

But since I discovered tri, I ride my entry level QR Kilo tri bike 90% of the time while the Indy Fab languishes

IMO, the placing of critical controls on two separate locations made me a better rider. I am more aware of developing situations during a ride and can preempt them, I also smoothed out the transition from aero to handle bar and vice versa. I use my Kilo for centuries, climbing, fast group rides and everything else, that way, on Tri day, I straddle it and the familiarity is instantly there.

x2 for the Kilo, awesome bike for the price.
2014-01-12 12:42 PM
in reply to: BikesOfALesserGod

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike

Originally posted by BikesOfALesserGod
Originally posted by Dan-L no way should a TT bike be used in a group. Far too dangerous. Amazed anyone can think otherwise
Thanks for sharing your limitations.

The "can tri bikes be used in groups?" debate comes up time and time again. Bottom line is that some races & some groups don't allow them, most do allow them but no way should you be on the aerobars.  Some races even have a "no aerobars on road bikes" policy, which is inane.  These people are afraid of the idiot who causes a big crash because he/she was on aerobars and couldn't brake. But there are many groups that do welcome road and tri bikes, and they just don't want you to be stupid about it like riding a paceline on the aerobars.

The "tri bikes don't handle as well as road bikes" point also comes up all the time, and has some truth to it but not much. Tri bikes are generally built with stiffer bottom end, deep dish aero wheels, and a geometry to support aero position for solo riding without drafting. Road bikes are built for pelotons and pacelines and for catching up to a breakaway rider, and so on. So there are by-design differences in the bikes that result in some differences in handling, mostly weight related with a little bit from the geometry. Bottom line is that a tri bike is better than a road bike for some things, and a road bike is better than a tri bike for other things. 

People who find their tri bike consistently handles worse than their road bike for everything need to fix their fit (assuming we're not comparing bottom-end tri to top-end road bike, or other mismatched comparisons).

2014-01-12 2:37 PM
in reply to: BikesOfALesserGod

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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by BikesOfALesserGod

Originally posted by Dan-L

no way should a TT bike be used in a group. Far too dangerous. Amazed anyone can think otherwise


Thanks for sharing your limitations.


haha, thanks for you sharing your charming personality.

Perhaps brakes on the more recent bikes have improved but on my 2010 TT bike the brake levers are so lightweight and pathetic that I'd hate to have to stop in a hurry. It must add a few metres to the comparative braking distance compared to my road bikes.

Also, body position is lower so awareness is decreased. Handling is reduced as these bikes are designed for straight line speed, not turning.
2014-01-13 12:58 PM
in reply to: Dan-L


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Subject: RE: Training with TT bike
Originally posted by Dan-L

Originally posted by BikesOfALesserGod

Originally posted by Dan-L

no way should a TT bike be used in a group. Far too dangerous. Amazed anyone can think otherwise


Thanks for sharing your limitations.


haha, thanks for you sharing your charming personality.

Perhaps brakes on the more recent bikes have improved but on my 2010 TT bike the brake levers are so lightweight and pathetic that I'd hate to have to stop in a hurry. It must add a few metres to the comparative braking distance compared to my road bikes.

Also, body position is lower so awareness is decreased. Handling is reduced as these bikes are designed for straight line speed, not turning.



I think making the matter of fact claim and that anyone who disagrees amazes you, rubs some the wrong way. I've ridden my TT bike in a group and no one's cared. I don't ride in a paceline, I don't ride in aero if i'm behind someone, I have no problem handling the bike, and we're in the mountains here, so lots of turns and descents. I certainly don't ride in aero on those roads. My brakes on my TT bike are better than my road (though that's kind of comparing apples and oranges-2012 P2 and a 2005 specialized allez elite).

Maybe I amaze you though, i always hope to impress
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