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How do you test your FTP ?
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I do a 40km/1hr TT1 Votes - [1.82%]
I do a 20' test and take a % of that11 Votes - [20%]
I do a short (3-5min) and a long (20-30min) and calculate it8 Votes - [14.55%]
I do the Hunter/Coggan test 20' with 5' all out warm up7 Votes - [12.73%]
I do the TrainerRoad 8min protocol5 Votes - [9.09%]
I do the TrainerRoad 20min protocol15 Votes - [27.27%]
I do a blood lactate test0 Votes - [0%]
I do a ramp test and take % of MAP0 Votes - [0%]
I cherry pick results from my training0 Votes - [0%]
I don't ever test5 Votes - [9.09%]
What's an FTP ?3 Votes - [5.45%]

2014-01-21 11:11 AM
in reply to: mikec123

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Subject: RE: How do you test your FTP ?

Originally posted by mikec123
Originally posted by Left Brain ...12-15,000 yards per week consitently and not seeing the improvement they were looking for.  That's a good Monday and Tuesday for swimmers, and they do it in ~ 4 hours.  For the rest of us, it's a weeks work. 

When you start really looking at the guys who are fast, and I know you do, it's mind boggling.

Freshman year of college my roomate was a swimmer, 50 & 100 free and I ran track, sprints up to 400m so we trained for basically the same event duration. Most days he swam further than I ran, that's volume.

Yeah, and I know we are way off topic now, but that's what I'm getting at with triathlon.  The fast people I know are already training 17-21 hours per week for Sprints and Olys....but 70% of that training is swimming, and it comes to 35,000-50,000 yards per week.  I hear people talk about woriking to improve their swim and then being dissapointed in the small time gains they actually made in racing (whwen they were "only" swimming 10-12,000 yards per week).  I wonder if they realize how much it takes to be a truly fast swimmer when all they hear is "swim 2-3000 yards per day 4 days per week and you will see big gains.  

To get back on target with this thread....what if the strong bikers spent 1 year with a full swim focused training.....I'm talknig about 1,000,000 yards. (no, that's not alot for a swimmer).......would they then be able to come out of the water much less gassed and able to hold a higher percentage of their FTP on the bike?  Yes, you'd have to get your bike fitness back up, but I don't think it would take that long and the benefit from a true swim build could be really helpful to a fast race.



2014-01-21 11:37 AM
in reply to: tomspharmacy

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Subject: RE: How do you test your FTP ?

Originally posted by tomspharmacy
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by tomspharmacy At SOMA, I went by the window of stay above XXXw and not go above XXXw for too long... with sharp hills on the course, I had short spikes but tried to maintain steady at just below the ceiling, then the rest of the way at the lower end... I also did by feel. On the run, the first 10k was ok about a 7:18 right on target, but I was slowing down starting at the 8th mile, the last 10k was a grind.
Tom, just for hoots, what would be your open 10k run time and how much do you weigh ?
I've never run a solo run event ever, unless you included the Army 2 mile fitness test. But based on my estimated VO2max of 52-ish, I'd guess 39 to 40 minutes. I have run 20 minute 5k's in training. I've run around a 40 to 41 minute 10k when I was doing 1600m intervals with 400m recoveries on the track last summer. I'm not a fast runner, at least comparing to agers that can run sub 1:32 HIM off the bike, I'm at a 5 to 6 minute disadvantage to those rabbits, that's why I focus on my cycling... I employ the Lance Armstrong / Starky method of racing. Right now I weigh 150, but during the summer/fall racing season I want to be around 145/146.

Please tell me you age up soon!  

2014-01-21 11:43 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How do you test your FTP ?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mikec123
Originally posted by Left Brain ...12-15,000 yards per week consitently and not seeing the improvement they were looking for.  That's a good Monday and Tuesday for swimmers, and they do it in ~ 4 hours.  For the rest of us, it's a weeks work. 

When you start really looking at the guys who are fast, and I know you do, it's mind boggling.

Freshman year of college my roomate was a swimmer, 50 & 100 free and I ran track, sprints up to 400m so we trained for basically the same event duration. Most days he swam further than I ran, that's volume.

Yeah, and I know we are way off topic now, but that's what I'm getting at with triathlon.  The fast people I know are already training 17-21 hours per week for Sprints and Olys....but 70% of that training is swimming, and it comes to 35,000-50,000 yards per week.  I hear people talk about woriking to improve their swim and then being dissapointed in the small time gains they actually made in racing (whwen they were "only" swimming 10-12,000 yards per week).  I wonder if they realize how much it takes to be a truly fast swimmer when all they hear is "swim 2-3000 yards per day 4 days per week and you will see big gains.  

To get back on target with this thread....what if the strong bikers spent 1 year with a full swim focused training.....I'm talknig about 1,000,000 yards. (no, that's not alot for a swimmer).......would they then be able to come out of the water much less gassed and able to hold a higher percentage of their FTP on the bike?  Yes, you'd have to get your bike fitness back up, but I don't think it would take that long and the benefit from a true swim build could be really helpful to a fast race.

Looking at this from a different angle than what you see every day (which HAS to shape your thinking, right?)...

What are the AGers who already ARE really fast doing?  They're out there and must be doing something right to be on the pointy end of the AG spectrum (I know the dudes in my AG are smokin' fast - at least compared to this 45 year old!).

Do their workouts look like the up-and-coming fast kids who are learning the sport?  Is you son doing base work in swimming to set him up for subsequent seasons when he'll be on the bike and running more instead, or do you think this is the norm for him/his class of athletes?

Is that kind of work what the CURRENT fast AGers do?  A million yards, plus b/r?  If so, there goes any chances of me getting to the pointy end!  

Matt

2014-01-21 12:14 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: How do you test your FTP ?

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mikec123
Originally posted by Left Brain ...12-15,000 yards per week consitently and not seeing the improvement they were looking for.  That's a good Monday and Tuesday for swimmers, and they do it in ~ 4 hours.  For the rest of us, it's a weeks work. 

When you start really looking at the guys who are fast, and I know you do, it's mind boggling.

Freshman year of college my roomate was a swimmer, 50 & 100 free and I ran track, sprints up to 400m so we trained for basically the same event duration. Most days he swam further than I ran, that's volume.

Yeah, and I know we are way off topic now, but that's what I'm getting at with triathlon.  The fast people I know are already training 17-21 hours per week for Sprints and Olys....but 70% of that training is swimming, and it comes to 35,000-50,000 yards per week.  I hear people talk about woriking to improve their swim and then being dissapointed in the small time gains they actually made in racing (whwen they were "only" swimming 10-12,000 yards per week).  I wonder if they realize how much it takes to be a truly fast swimmer when all they hear is "swim 2-3000 yards per day 4 days per week and you will see big gains.  

To get back on target with this thread....what if the strong bikers spent 1 year with a full swim focused training.....I'm talknig about 1,000,000 yards. (no, that's not alot for a swimmer).......would they then be able to come out of the water much less gassed and able to hold a higher percentage of their FTP on the bike?  Yes, you'd have to get your bike fitness back up, but I don't think it would take that long and the benefit from a true swim build could be really helpful to a fast race.

Looking at this from a different angle than what you see every day (which HAS to shape your thinking, right?)...

What are the AGers who already ARE really fast doing?  They're out there and must be doing something right to be on the pointy end of the AG spectrum (I know the dudes in my AG are smokin' fast - at least compared to this 45 year old!).

Do their workouts look like the up-and-coming fast kids who are learning the sport?  Is you son doing base work in swimming to set him up for subsequent seasons when he'll be on the bike and running more instead, or do you think this is the norm for him/his class of athletes?

Is that kind of work what the CURRENT fast AGers do?  A million yards, plus b/r?  If so, there goes any chances of me getting to the pointy end!  

Matt

I don't know....and that's my point. But, if you look at the pointy end of the fast AG'ers, many of them have a swim background of some sort.  Sooooo....if you take a year or two to REALLY learn how to swim, does that knowledge of swim technique stay with you, because it certainly seems like it does to me.  People who swim fast now learned to swim fast years ago......and it stays with them....MUCH more than people who used to run fast, you can lose that as you gain weight and take time off when you age.

To your point about the fast kids I watch.....thye idea is simple for run and bike.  Build speed!!  Make yourself fast!  Thwe swimming catches the endurance end and yiou can always build endurance into your running/biking......but true speed has to be built when you are young and those pathways are being built in your system.

2014-01-21 12:34 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How do you test your FTP ?
I haven't read the entire thread, but here's what I do:

Right now, during the cold weather, I do most of my riding indoors. I also use TrainerRoad. Maybe once a month, I test my FTP using the 5' / 20' test. Boy, do I hate that test. I know it's prob not an accurate test for outdoor riding, but that's not important right now.

Once the weather warms up, I'll be riding outside and one of the first things I'm going to do is perform an FTP test. I'm guessing I'm going to use a similar protocol, but will read up on other methodologies. I may even try a few to see how close they are.

I'm NOT looking forward to either the indoor or outdoor tests...
2014-01-21 3:31 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How do you test your FTP ?
Wow we're really off topic, but I'll roll with it.

While talking about what % to ride a HIM/IM race at:

have you guys been to http://www.bestbikesplit.com/? I found it on a different website and was intrigued. essentially you upload a course (or pick one of theirs) and then input all the variables and it gives you your split for the bike.

I know it sounds like 'how could that be accurate' but the algorithms and smoothing constants must be crazy good. I plugged in some previous race numbers just to see what it would say (I didnt plug in my power results from the race, just my FTP) and it came out within 60sec of my HITS Ocala half iron time. pretty crazy.

(btw no I dont work for them...just a sweet website).


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