Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Member

65

Milwaukee

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

I'm not sure what plan you're following from your post.

The metallic taste is definitely from ketones in your system.

The other symptoms you are having has been called "Keto-flu" and extremely normal in the first week.

http://ketogeniclifestyle.com/keto-flu-symptoms-mitigation-and-gett...

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Alpharetta, Georgia

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Is the "LCHF" diet typically calorie-restricted, or is that a restriction you put on yourself?
Most of the "high fat" diet stuff I see advises not to worry about calories, but focus on the carb aspect.

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Champion

5312

Calgary

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Hey,

Thanks. So yeah, I am just following your standard keto diet. Less than 40 grams carbs, 150 grams protien, the rest fat.

First diet in my life so I did figure out that I should be taking in way more than 2200 calories. My maintenance level is 3200, with my workouts I am 3600-3900, so, yeah, no wonder I was in a crumby mood.

Also upped my protein level. Was on about 100 grams for Monday and Tuesday. Seems there is no consensus on how much protein you should have although one guy said at least 150 grams, so bang.

Anyways, I feel tons better today even though my carbs are still way low.

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Veteran

200

Gatineau, Quebec

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Keep in mind that it may take up to 3 weeks before your body switches fully to fat burning, You might feel some weakening and lower performance during those weeks. You'll know you're in fat burning mode when you start having more energy than you can spend.

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Extreme Veteran

1106

, Connecticut

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Four days on low carb, slightly higher fat and high protein. Definitely feeling weaker, napping a lot. Did lose 3#'s in 4 days.

Lisa, have been seeing you on paleo for a while now. You don't look like you need to lose weight, so is it the higher fat that keeps you in maintenance? Do you eat fruit?

Glad to hear that my energy will come back. Am 35# overweight, a lot considering I'm all of 5'1". Hope to drop 20 by March 1 when I'd like to start my sprint training plan.

Mitzi

Champion

5312

Calgary

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

Four days on low carb, slightly higher fat and high protein. Definitely feeling weaker, napping a lot. Did lose 3#'s in 4 days.

Lisa, have been seeing you on paleo for a while now. You don't look like you need to lose weight, so is it the higher fat that keeps you in maintenance? Do you eat fruit?

Glad to hear that my energy will come back. Am 35# overweight, a lot considering I'm all of 5'1". Hope to drop 20 by March 1 when I'd like to start my sprint training plan.

Mitzi

Drink chicken broth and put coconut oil in your tea or coffee. Make sure you have enough sodium. Really, the coconut oil and chicken broth are key, or were for me.

Also, those 3 pounds are all water.

There is a difference between low carb and no carb. If you are still eating fruit or getting more than, say 40 carbs a day, your body may not switch over to ketosis. And I think, your body gets stuck in an endless starvation mode where you will always be thinking of cake.

I think there is a different diet for everyone. If you are feeling really bad and you want to go for it then cut out all carbs except for a small amount of lettuces. You got to ride out the pain. The chicken broth is for sodium. The coconut oil, I have heard it is like high octane fat for your body. Your body loves it and eating it will help switch you to ketosis.

Also, I hate to poo poo on anyone, but 20 pounds in 20 days is not cool.

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Alpharetta, Georgia

Bronze member

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

Lisa, have been seeing you on paleo for a while now. You don't look like you need to lose weight, so is it the higher fat that keeps you in maintenance? Do you eat fruit?

Sorry just saw this.
I am not paleo as I eat dairy, but I lost 15lb (over 6 months) doing low carb recently.
I did not eat fruit doing low carb, but will be introducing it back in soon.

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Extreme Veteran

1106

, Connecticut

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Hey Darren,

Don't worry about boo-booing on me, say what you've got to say, appreciate any input.

Guess you're right about the unrealistic goals. Always say I'll do what I can do and body will do with it will do. Water weight does make sense.

I'm going to now - have an no fruit, grain, rice, sugar - only small amounts of carbs in high protein bars (usually about 3-5 grams of carbs, 2-8g fat with 21-25 grams protein), broccoli, lettuce with cucumbers, red peppers, celery. That's it. To get cals up to 1000-1100, so I wouldn't be ridiculously hungry have been adding 1/2 tsp of coconut oil to morning shakes. Have lost taste buds so I put a ton of salt on my food - actually worried about water weight so have been using horseradish to avoid ketchup and steak sauce.

Getting about 40g of fat, 40g of carbs before I minus out 17-20g of fiber and 130-145g protein. I've been really been good and hunger and cravings gone.

Been walking and lifting and yesterday I walked/jogged (have done nothing all winter so starting easy) for 30 and then ate nothing for an hour so as not to replenish my glycogen reserves.

This morning was my first weeks weigh in - the same 159 I was three days ago. Ketone strips are negative.
Chalking it up to being menopausal and assuming that if I keep it up my body will have to respond, but feeling very discouraged to say the least.

Mitzi

Edited by MuscleMomma 2014-02-12 8:13 AM

Extreme Veteran

1106

, Connecticut

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Re-read the thread - you say lchf not lchp - assuming you are going high protein.

Lisa - how does it work to eat lots of fat? Doesn't that just get in the way of your body burning it's own fat reserves?

Champion

5312

Calgary

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

Hey Darren,

Don't worry about boo-booing on me, say what you've got to say, appreciate any input.

Guess you're right about the unrealistic goals. Always say I'll do what I can do and body will do with it will do. Water weight does make sense.

I'm going to now - have an no fruit, grain, rice, sugar - only small amounts of carbs in high protein bars (usually about 3-5 grams of carbs, 2-8g fat with 21-25 grams protein), broccoli, lettuce with cucumbers, red peppers, celery. That's it. To get cals up to 1000-1100, so I wouldn't be ridiculously hungry have been adding 1/2 tsp of coconut oil to morning shakes. Have lost taste buds so I put a ton of salt on my food - actually worried about water weight so have been using horseradish to avoid ketchup and steak sauce.

Getting about 40g of fat, 40g of carbs before I minus out 17-20g of fiber and 130-145g protein. I've been really been good and hunger and cravings gone.

Been walking and lifting and yesterday I walked/jogged (have done nothing all winter so starting easy) for 30 and then ate nothing for an hour so as not to replenish my glycogen reserves.

This morning was my first weeks weigh in - the same 159 I was three days ago. Ketone strips are negative.
Chalking it up to being menopausal and assuming that if I keep it up my body will have to respond, but feeling very discouraged to say the least.

Mitzi

I am not high protein. From what I understand a high protein diet inhibits ketosis. Body converts protein to gylcogen and you never have to switch over to ketosis. My goals are less than 50 grams of carbs 150-180 grams of protein and as much fat as I find palatable, which is usually around 160 grams. I am lifting heavy and doing quite a bit of swimming too so I can cheat a bit on carbs and protein. Intake is about 2300-2500 calories a day during the week. I don't really track on the weekends but I would guess closer to 3000-3500.

I am not sure how important the keto strips are. If you stopped feeling like bum and the foggy feeling in your brain has left you may be in ketosis. Blood meters are an option that I am exploring but the strips are like 2 bucks each or something.

Also, I think, you want to keep your sodium high. Low carb flushes sodium out of you and you risk dehydration. Drink as much water as you can. Add salt to everything. At least that is what I hear.

If you haven't been here go

http://eatingacademy.com/ This guy has a diet that is spot on.

Anyways, I am not really doing this to lose weight, although that seems to be a bit of a side effect, so much as break my carb addiction. But good luck.

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Champion

5312

Calgary

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

Re-read the thread - you say lchf not lchp - assuming you are going high protein.

Lisa - how does it work to eat lots of fat? Doesn't that just get in the way of your body burning it's own fat reserves?

That's a great question. Basically you are trying to get your body to produce ketones. You will only do that if you have limited protein and carbs. So limited that your body would go into starvation if that is all you ate. You can't have your body in starvation mode which is why you top up your caloric requirement with fat. Once you are producing ketones and your body figures out how to use them, which can take a while, you are fat burning machine. I understand a key component is getting your brain to run off ketones because your brain burns tons of calories.

Also, the benefit of having your macros set out like that is that you just won't over eat. You can't. Unless you sucking on coconut oil you just won't be able to take it. Your stomach will be more or less empty but you just won't be hungry.

Go to the eating academy, he has all the science there.

FWIW I am on week four of this adventure. It is mad.

Oh also, for your training, keep in mind that intense physical exercise gets very difficult without sugars. You can go slow all day, but if you are planning some intervals or crushing some hills you need to supplement with carbs. I aim for staying in ketosis during the week but I do eat carbs on the weekend to restore my carb stores for my lifting.

Sorry for babbling on, I am just finding this whole experience fascinating.

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Extreme Veteran

1106

, Connecticut

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

My thing is that I want to burn the 20# of fat I have on my body. I don't want to fuel my body with fat to burn any more than I want to fuel my body with carbs to burn.

Champion

5312

Calgary

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

My thing is that I want to burn the 20# of fat I have on my body. I don't want to fuel my body with fat to burn any more than I want to fuel my body with carbs to burn.

Bit new to this part of the forum but I won't prevent from that making me an expert

Your statement betrays a fundamental misunderstanding about how the body creates energy. A calorie restrictive ketogenic diet is a fat destroyer. Your fat won't know what hit it.

A couple tidbits. Once you go into ketosysis your liver is producing ketones that, if you don't use, are processed by your kidneys, get this, you pee them out. You literally are peeing out fat. Ditto with your breath, you will be breathing out fat. Also, ketosysis is inefficient. It costs more to produce energy using ketones than glycogen, put that in your fat pipe and smoke it.

Also, and if you go to the eating academy you will see this, going into ketosysis and training in ketosysis, at a low intensity, will result in a very great increase in the amount of calories you will burn from fat. So instead of burning mostly sugar and a bit of fat on your long run, you will burn all the fat. All of it. And unlike sugar, you won't need to replace the fat you burned in order to train long again.

Remember, I have been at this for three weeks so I know just about everything the internet has to say.

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Veteran

200

Gatineau, Quebec

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

My thing is that I want to burn the 20# of fat I have on my body. I don't want to fuel my body with fat to burn any more than I want to fuel my body with carbs to burn.

If you can get your hand on the books by Gary Taubes, he uses a wallet analogy to describe what happens when your body is in fat burning mode. The conclusion of his analogy, is that if your insulin levels are very low, your resistance to insulin will be very low and you'll have access to your fat stores. You will not be physically hungry when you decrease your calories, as your body will be using your stored fat. The body does not care if it gets the calories from outside or inside, the problem is carbs raise insulin and insulin blocks access to your fat storage. It takes 3-4 weeks of low carbs to turn your system to fat burning mode.

After those 3-4 weeks, I was living on 1500 calories a day while training 90 minutes per day, and I was not hungry. I went from 275 to 178 in 7 months.

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Veteran

335

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Thanks for all the info! I need to learn how to burn fat as I'm sure I have lots of reserve energy!

Lisa I remember you from the WheatBelly thread and I'm still trying to cut the gluten; its everywhere!

The eating academy? Is there a website or is this a book?

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Veteran

200

Gatineau, Quebec

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by 1_Mad_Madone

Thanks for all the info! I need to learn how to burn fat as I'm sure I have lots of reserve energy!

Lisa I remember you from the WheatBelly thread and I'm still trying to cut the gluten; its everywhere!

The eating academy? Is there a website or is this a book?

A site,

http://eatingacademy.com/

Peter Attia created that site.

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Champion

5312

Calgary

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by outlandluc

Keep in mind that it may take up to 3 weeks before your body switches fully to fat burning, You might feel some weakening and lower performance during those weeks. You'll know you're in fat burning mode when you start having more energy than you can spend.

So I am day 30. I am doing the cyclical keto diet, because of the heavy lifting. Anyways, for the first three weeks no problem, make it through mon-Friday, lifting three times and swimming three times. Last week I started swimming 5 days. I tell you, by Friday afternoon I thought I was dead. I was starving. That morning I had a hard hard hard workout. Super hard. Harder than I ever really lifted on a Friday and harder than I thought possible since I believed I was empty of carbs.

I had my normal breakfast and coffee with cream, but I was starving. Wolfed down 600 calories worth of pepperoni sticks, which are kind of my go to snack. But man, felt worse and worse and worse and worse. Head ache, flu like symptoms. Hadn't been sleeping much so I decided to have a nap, but that didn't help. Finally, I was like, cookie time baby. Had a cookie, felt better, had another, felt better, had some fruit and other food stuffs. Yum.

Anyways, thoughts? I had thought I was somewhat keto adapted in that i managed to go Mon-Fri with no carbs except lettuces and the odd spoonful of viggies. But this Friday experience. Not sure. Think I am going to try to go until March 2 with no carbs. Break through that wall if it comes.

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Veteran

200

Gatineau, Quebec

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by BigDH

Originally posted by outlandluc

Keep in mind that it may take up to 3 weeks before your body switches fully to fat burning, You might feel some weakening and lower performance during those weeks. You'll know you're in fat burning mode when you start having more energy than you can spend.

So I am day 30. I am doing the cyclical keto diet, because of the heavy lifting. Anyways, for the first three weeks no problem, make it through mon-Friday, lifting three times and swimming three times. Last week I started swimming 5 days. I tell you, by Friday afternoon I thought I was dead. I was starving. That morning I had a hard hard hard workout. Super hard. Harder than I ever really lifted on a Friday and harder than I thought possible since I believed I was empty of carbs.

I had my normal breakfast and coffee with cream, but I was starving. Wolfed down 600 calories worth of pepperoni sticks, which are kind of my go to snack. But man, felt worse and worse and worse and worse. Head ache, flu like symptoms. Hadn't been sleeping much so I decided to have a nap, but that didn't help. Finally, I was like, cookie time baby. Had a cookie, felt better, had another, felt better, had some fruit and other food stuffs. Yum.

Anyways, thoughts? I had thought I was somewhat keto adapted in that i managed to go Mon-Fri with no carbs except lettuces and the odd spoonful of viggies. But this Friday experience. Not sure. Think I am going to try to go until March 2 with no carbs. Break through that wall if it comes.

As I mentioned before, I am not a "Ketosis Guru". What i have discovered is from personal experience and reading. My understanding of your experience, is that it happened after a very, very hard weight training Work out.

From everything I have experience and heard, you created Glycogen depletion of your muscles. Proteins will eventually refill your Glycogen, but it is a very slow process. You were so empty, that your body was requesting a quick solution, making you crave the food with quickest results for absorbing glycogen - Carbs, and it worked.

Peter Attia, from all his experiments has concluded that for long endurance activities, burning fat is the best way to go, as it pushes further the barrier were your body starts burning you stored glycogen.

But he has made it cleared that if you plan on running the 100 meter sprint, carbs are the way to go. They will replenish your glycogen much faster. If you plan on doing the kind of trainings that quickly empty your glycogen stores, you will have to rethink your nutrition.

Attia once again mentioned, that he has learned to eat certain high quantities of carbs after specific trainings. The ones which empty the stored glycogen. As he explained, he was able to stay in Ketosis by timing it right and having just enough carbs to replenish the muscles and liver.

Edited by outlandluc 2014-02-18 3:01 PM

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Champion

5312

Calgary

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by outlandluc

Originally posted by BigDH

Originally posted by outlandluc

Keep in mind that it may take up to 3 weeks before your body switches fully to fat burning, You might feel some weakening and lower performance during those weeks. You'll know you're in fat burning mode when you start having more energy than you can spend.

So I am day 30. I am doing the cyclical keto diet, because of the heavy lifting. Anyways, for the first three weeks no problem, make it through mon-Friday, lifting three times and swimming three times. Last week I started swimming 5 days. I tell you, by Friday afternoon I thought I was dead. I was starving. That morning I had a hard hard hard workout. Super hard. Harder than I ever really lifted on a Friday and harder than I thought possible since I believed I was empty of carbs.

I had my normal breakfast and coffee with cream, but I was starving. Wolfed down 600 calories worth of pepperoni sticks, which are kind of my go to snack. But man, felt worse and worse and worse and worse. Head ache, flu like symptoms. Hadn't been sleeping much so I decided to have a nap, but that didn't help. Finally, I was like, cookie time baby. Had a cookie, felt better, had another, felt better, had some fruit and other food stuffs. Yum.

Anyways, thoughts? I had thought I was somewhat keto adapted in that i managed to go Mon-Fri with no carbs except lettuces and the odd spoonful of viggies. But this Friday experience. Not sure. Think I am going to try to go until March 2 with no carbs. Break through that wall if it comes.

As I mentioned before, I am not a "Ketosis Guru". What i have discovered is from personal experience and reading. My understanding of your experience, is that it happened after a very, very hard weight training Work out.

From everything I have experience and heard, you created Glycogen depletion of your muscles. Proteins will eventually refill your Glycogen, but it is a very slow process. You were so empty, that your body was requesting a quick solution, making you crave the food with quickest results for absorbing glycogen - Carbs, and it worked.

Peter Attia, from all his experiments has concluded that for long endurance activities, burning fat is the best way to go, as it pushes further the barrier were your body starts burning you stored glycogen.

But he has made it cleared that if you plan on running the 100 meter sprint, carbs are the way to go. They will replenish your glycogen much faster. If you plan on doing the kind of trainings that quickly empty your glycogen stores, you will have to rethink your nutrition.

Attia once again mentioned, that he has learned to eat certain high quantities of carbs after specific trainings. The ones which empty the stored glycogen. As he explained, he was able to stay in Ketosis by timing it right and having just enough carbs to replenish the muscles and liver.

Thanks. From my review of the interwebs I think Attia is the closest thing to an expert, at least when it comes to endurance sports. I am rethinking things, there does not seem to be any solid info about strength training and ketosis. I guess there is ketogains in reddit. I may look them over again.

I think I am going to try to push it the next two weeks and just see what happens.

My Race Log

Veteran

200

Gatineau, Quebec

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Originally posted by BigDH

Originally posted by outlandluc

Originally posted by BigDH

Originally posted by outlandluc

Keep in mind that it may take up to 3 weeks before your body switches fully to fat burning, You might feel some weakening and lower performance during those weeks. You'll know you're in fat burning mode when you start having more energy than you can spend.

So I am day 30. I am doing the cyclical keto diet, because of the heavy lifting. Anyways, for the first three weeks no problem, make it through mon-Friday, lifting three times and swimming three times. Last week I started swimming 5 days. I tell you, by Friday afternoon I thought I was dead. I was starving. That morning I had a hard hard hard workout. Super hard. Harder than I ever really lifted on a Friday and harder than I thought possible since I believed I was empty of carbs.

I had my normal breakfast and coffee with cream, but I was starving. Wolfed down 600 calories worth of pepperoni sticks, which are kind of my go to snack. But man, felt worse and worse and worse and worse. Head ache, flu like symptoms. Hadn't been sleeping much so I decided to have a nap, but that didn't help. Finally, I was like, cookie time baby. Had a cookie, felt better, had another, felt better, had some fruit and other food stuffs. Yum.

Anyways, thoughts? I had thought I was somewhat keto adapted in that i managed to go Mon-Fri with no carbs except lettuces and the odd spoonful of viggies. But this Friday experience. Not sure. Think I am going to try to go until March 2 with no carbs. Break through that wall if it comes.

As I mentioned before, I am not a "Ketosis Guru". What i have discovered is from personal experience and reading. My understanding of your experience, is that it happened after a very, very hard weight training Work out.

From everything I have experience and heard, you created Glycogen depletion of your muscles. Proteins will eventually refill your Glycogen, but it is a very slow process. You were so empty, that your body was requesting a quick solution, making you crave the food with quickest results for absorbing glycogen - Carbs, and it worked.

Peter Attia, from all his experiments has concluded that for long endurance activities, burning fat is the best way to go, as it pushes further the barrier were your body starts burning you stored glycogen.

But he has made it cleared that if you plan on running the 100 meter sprint, carbs are the way to go. They will replenish your glycogen much faster. If you plan on doing the kind of trainings that quickly empty your glycogen stores, you will have to rethink your nutrition.

Attia once again mentioned, that he has learned to eat certain high quantities of carbs after specific trainings. The ones which empty the stored glycogen. As he explained, he was able to stay in Ketosis by timing it right and having just enough carbs to replenish the muscles and liver.

Thanks. From my review of the interwebs I think Attia is the closest thing to an expert, at least when it comes to endurance sports. I am rethinking things, there does not seem to be any solid info about strength training and ketosis. I guess there is ketogains in reddit. I may look them over again.

I think I am going to try to push it the next two weeks and just see what happens.

As Attia keeps saying. Experience it for yourself and you'll see :-)

Keep us informed, I'm very curious.

My Race Log

Member

326

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Jumping on the bandwagon here. Day 3. -6lbs, been hydrating like crazy, so not sure how much of that, if any, is water.

Extreme Veteran

1106

, Connecticut

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Hi all,

Checked out the Academy site - very interesting, but I am just not ready to go the HF route. Thanks for sharing all the resources.

For the past week I've been at 1000 cal. and approx. 55%P, 30 F, and 15%C. I just can't wrap my head around higher cal. for weight loss when I have 25 lbs of fat on me I want to burn.

Not training, only lifting as heard that with cardio your body will turn to protein for fuel, I know unless you eat fat...

Strips show trace ketones and down a whopping .5 lbs.

Am going for small amounts of nuts if I get real hungry.
Will give it another week and reevaluate.

Mitzi

Member

326

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Day 6, -10.6.

Extreme Veteran

1106

, Connecticut

Subject: RE: Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

Just reread posts, - appreciate all the posts and sharing

I'm keeping it at 25g or less of carbs, and upping the fat a bit to 30%, still mostly protein. Even at 1000/day no weight loss in more than a week. I will hang in there waiting to hit it big with those ketone strips turning color. So far I'm at trace levels.

I'm hanging in there as I have never been able to stick to a 1000 cal/day diet before when I ate more carbs. Plus I know that my body is out of whack and my hugh fat belly tells me I'm insulin resistant.

Trying to even keep the veggies low, supplementing with green capsules.

When I do a little exercise I have a hard time not eating more.
Was hoping to start training March 1, but I know that weight loss will do more for me than another month of hailing my fat a$$ around. So plan is to lose what I can and start training April 1.

This is going to be my year - have survived sprints, this year it will be a respectable sprint and at least surviving an oly!

Mitzi

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Ketosis day 3, lchf diet

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