Swim Training on a Time Basis?
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2014-01-30 3:39 PM |
Member 91 Baltimore, MD | Subject: Swim Training on a Time Basis? I'm signed up for my first Oly in May and am following one of the training plans on here. It calls out how many minutes to bike or swim or run and on what days. For the run part, I hop on the treadmill or run around the neighborhood until my time is up. No problem. But what do I do about the swimming? Today was supposed to be 44 minutes or something. I'm not going to jump in the pool and just swim continuously for 44 minutes. How do I gage my time? Measure actual time swimming and not count rest time? Use the total time if I'm doing shorter distances on a set time? How do other people do time based swim training? Any suggestions? |
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2014-01-30 4:16 PM in reply to: schaumi |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? I asked a similar question here many months back. The answers I got were generally based on what kind of watch the person had and how they kept time. So, some people used watches that just tallied up the swimming time and not the rest time, so those people used that number. Like those using a stopwatch such as on a timex ironman watch. Others just took the total time they spent, including rest times. there is no right or wrong way- just different ways.
That said, just swimming straight for 44 minutes is likely not your best use of that training time. Swim training typically involves shorter, more intense sets. but that's a whole other discussion. |
2014-01-30 5:42 PM in reply to: morey000 |
New user 273 Manassas, Virginia | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Originally posted by morey000 That said, just swimming straight for 44 minutes is likely not your best use of that training time. Swim training typically involves shorter, more intense sets. but that's a whole other discussion. ^This. IMO, interval training is the best way to build endurance. As for the timing thing, I just count from the time I get in the water to the time I get out (including rest) using my Timex Ironman watch. I'd rather focus on the work I'm doing than the actual time spent in the pool. Most of the plans on here are for people right in the middle of the pack. So if you're already a strong swimmer you might not need as much work as the plan calls for. On the other hand, if you're not a strong swimmer, maybe you need more pool time than the plan calls for. Best bet is to adjust the plan to your particular needs. |
2014-01-30 5:53 PM in reply to: morey000 |
Veteran 501 Seattle, Washington | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? How many days a week are you swimming? 3? I am going to venture a guess that you do not come from a competitive swimming background. So my recommendation would be to join a Master's group and swim with them for 2 of your three workouts. This will vary your workouts. On your other day - and people will disagree with me here - do a 10 minute warm up (freestyle, breast stroke, back, fly, whatever), then do a longer workout. Look up swim workouts in the Beginner HIM plan if you need some ideas - the swim in a HIM is not much longer than an Oly. You could start at 3x300, perhaps every 4th week do a 1000m Time Trial. Towards the end, in your bigger weeks, build up to swimming the full distance in one go. This, while some will argue is not necessary, will give you the mental prep to know you can do the finish the swim. |
2014-01-30 5:56 PM in reply to: schaumi |
Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? I wouldn't take the workout prescription so literally. If it calls for 44 minutes, and you have an hour...go for an hour. The extra 16 minutes won't kill you...regardless of whether the time includes rest intervals or not. I think the more important thing to pay attention to is how the plan is structured as far as builds and recovery. So if you see a 44 minute workout, and then 4 weeks later there is a 65 minute workout...know that whatever baseline you have set for your 44 minute workout, you need to do about 50% more. |
2014-01-30 6:00 PM in reply to: Dunn Right |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? This is one reason I don't use those time-based plans. I like to know what I should DO in those minutes to get the most out of them. For swimming, my suggestion is to make/find a workout that will take you about 45 minutes to swim (not including rest) based on your average pace. if you average about 2:00/100m, maybe 2200m worth of total swimming. Then make/find a good workout that will have you going that far. (Ex. 500m warmup/ 1500m main set of various distances, 200m cooldown). I use a lot of the workouts from Sara MacLarty's master's swim site ("C" should get you in the 40-45 minutes range, assuming the above pace). Magnolia Masters also has a lot online. If you are faster (i.e. 1:30/100m, then it would be closer to 3000m. Caveat--I do get total time on my swims, since that's how I log the rest of my training. I do total swim time (not counting rest) on my watch, and, if needed, time individual swims/sets on the pace clock. The only time I would do a workout simply by swimming for a set amount of time would be some OWS workouts where the goal is just to get used to the water and wetsuit or practice sighting, or occasionally a time trial (like see how far you can swim in 15, or 30 minutes) in the pool. |
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2014-01-30 10:58 PM in reply to: schaumi |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Go to the pool for 50 to 60 min. Swim intervals of 25 to 100 m/y ... and lots of them. Learn about the pace clock. Kick at least 10% or more of each session. |
2014-01-31 7:31 AM in reply to: simpsonbo |
191 Melbourne, Florida | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? How long are you resting? If you're on a time basis, you should swim on the clock. Find your pace and swim accordingly. Warm up, then time the distance in which you want to focus. 50 yards/meters, 100 y/m, 200 y/m... If it took you 1:45 to do one distance, then swim at 2:00. Using the pool clock, wait for the second hand to reach 0, then swim your distance. When you're back at the wall watch the clock and rest while the second hand ticks back to the 0 mark and repeat your distance. Depending on your comfort level - warm up (200-500 y/m easy pace), do your main set, and a cool down (100-200 y/m easy pace). Toward the end of your set the 1:45 will become closer to 1:55. This is always initiative to swim faster so you can rest longer. |
2014-01-31 7:34 AM in reply to: schaumi |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Don't go by time on anything! you could stand at the end of the pool for 44 minutes- how was your workout? Find a plan that uses distances for your workouts. miles for runs and bike; yards or meters for the swim. Most of you swimming should be shorter 50 yards to 200 yards. However if you have never done the 1500 meter swim for an Olympic you should do it a couple times before the event to get an idea on how it will feel. |
2014-01-31 8:04 AM in reply to: schaumi |
Member 91 Baltimore, MD | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Thanks for the replies. I was on community pool and Y swim teams as a kid and one year on the high school JV team. I dabbled in swimming in college and after just to try to keep in shape. I did a sprint tri in 2011 & 2012 and finished top 5 in my age group for swim (but MINUTES away from 1st place). This is my first time following and actual plan for training though. I checked the finish times for last year's race and I'm going to be up against a much deeper and more competitive field in this Oly. Swimming is my best of the 3 events, so for the bike, and especailly the run, the time based training is helpful to me in those events to build to the mileage. The plan I'm following is 2x/week for each event: short swim on the same day as short bike, and a long swim day. I try to add a swim after my short run day because I'm already at the gym. A 1000yd time trial yesterday put me at 1:31/100yd after my 4 x 75 fly, 4 x 100 each back, breast, free on 2:00 interval set. I counted the total elapsed time for the intervals (32 min) plus the swim time for my 1000 (15:14) and threw in a couple extra minutes for warmup/cooldown and called it good. Unfortunately, there's no pace clock at the Y I swim at in the morning (or backstroke flags either, which is a bigger pain) so I'm getting used to the functions of my Timex IronMan watch. I use the regular stop watch for 500+ yd swims and the lap function for each 100. I'm starting to use the interval function for my shorter sets, because without it I'd lounge at the wall for 5 minutes. I've still got some bad habits in my free stroke that I need to unlearn to be more efficient at longer distances and I'm starting to add some kicking drills to my training. Thanks for the tips. I guess overall I won't be too obsessed with the actual time for the swim days, just keep progressively building and trying to get faster and more efficient. |
2014-01-31 8:12 AM in reply to: schaumi |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? A great 1500 prep set is 20 x 75 on an interval that gives you 15 to 20 sec like 1.30 doing each rep in 1:10 or better. Or 60x25 @ 30 balls to the wallz Or 20 x 100 @ 2:00 |
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2014-01-31 8:13 AM in reply to: schaumi |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Originally posted by schaumi Thanks for the replies. I was on community pool and Y swim teams as a kid and one year on the high school JV team. I dabbled in swimming in college and after just to try to keep in shape. I did a sprint tri in 2011 & 2012 and finished top 5 in my age group for swim (but MINUTES away from 1st place). This is my first time following and actual plan for training though. I checked the finish times for last year's race and I'm going to be up against a much deeper and more competitive field in this Oly. Swimming is my best of the 3 events, so for the bike, and especailly the run, the time based training is helpful to me in those events to build to the mileage. The plan I'm following is 2x/week for each event: short swim on the same day as short bike, and a long swim day. I try to add a swim after my short run day because I'm already at the gym. A 1000yd time trial yesterday put me at 1:31/100yd after my 4 x 75 fly, 4 x 100 each back, breast, free on 2:00 interval set. I counted the total elapsed time for the intervals (32 min) plus the swim time for my 1000 (15:14) and threw in a couple extra minutes for warmup/cooldown and called it good. Unfortunately, there's no pace clock at the Y I swim at in the morning (or backstroke flags either, which is a bigger pain) so I'm getting used to the functions of my Timex IronMan watch. I use the regular stop watch for 500+ yd swims and the lap function for each 100. I'm starting to use the interval function for my shorter sets, because without it I'd lounge at the wall for 5 minutes. I've still got some bad habits in my free stroke that I need to unlearn to be more efficient at longer distances and I'm starting to add some kicking drills to my training. Thanks for the tips. I guess overall I won't be too obsessed with the actual time for the swim days, just keep progressively building and trying to get faster and more efficient. Based on this I would say you have a good idea of what your doing, don't worry about that swim plan much. Draw on your swim background to structure your swim workouts. As a rule any time I get in the pool I do a minimum of 2000 yds. That should be within that 45 minutes of swimming they are suggesting. |
2014-01-31 8:28 AM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Member 91 Baltimore, MD | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Originally posted by simpsonbo A great 1500 prep set is 20 x 75 on an interval that gives you 15 to 20 sec like 1.30 doing each rep in 1:10 or better. Or 60x25 @ 30 balls to the wallz Or 20 x 100 @ 2:00 I might try adding this, or some variation, to my workouts. Although I don't know if the old ladies at the Y in the morning would appreciate me churning up the pool blasting off 25's for half an hour. |
2014-01-31 8:45 AM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 2098 Ontario Canada | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? I believe in doing both, as most have said you will get your biggest gains doing intervals and fast 50 & 100's ( running's speed work equivalent), But I also think that you need to do the endurance swims as well where you just get in and start doing laps nonstop for the entire time, after all you can't just get out there and swim a mile and a half or 2.5 miles nonstop like you will do for a half or an Ironman if you are not used to doing that beforehand. So before you can swim a certain distance you need to know you that can swim that distance for certain Plus a bit extra for good measure. I get to the pool 3 times a week then 2 of those swims are intervals, stroke development, kick drills, ect ect, working on speed improvement one of those swims will be a straight endurance swim where I will swim a nice steady pace right till the end and then once pretty tired I will throw in a fast 100 or 150M to finish out the workout. If I get to the pool for a 4th time in a week then that one is a free swim and I do whatever the heck I feel like doing. Edited by RRH_88 2014-01-31 8:50 AM |
2014-01-31 9:46 AM in reply to: schaumi |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Originally posted by schaumi Originally posted by simpsonbo A great 1500 prep set is 20 x 75 on an interval that gives you 15 to 20 sec like 1.30 doing each rep in 1:10 or better. Or 60x25 @ 30 balls to the wallz Or 20 x 100 @ 2:00 I might try adding this, or some variation, to my workouts. Although I don't know if the old ladies at the Y in the morning would appreciate me churning up the pool blasting off 25's for half an hour. Is the pool meant for swimming? If so, go for it. I could be lucky, but people like that at the pools I go to seem to understand. Can't say for sure no one has ever been irked, but haven't had any complaints. Actually get some respect from that same crowd (and others). It's in how you conduct yourself. |
2014-01-31 9:56 AM in reply to: RRH_88 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Originally posted by RRH_88 I believe in doing both, as most have said you will get your biggest gains doing intervals and fast 50 & 100's ( running's speed work equivalent), But I also think that you need to do the endurance swims as well where you just get in and start doing laps nonstop for the entire time, after all you can't just get out there and swim a mile and a half or 2.5 miles nonstop like you will do for a half or an Ironman if you are not used to doing that beforehand. So before you can swim a certain distance you need to know you that can swim that distance for certain Plus a bit extra for good measure. I get to the pool 3 times a week then 2 of those swims are intervals, stroke development, kick drills, ect ect, working on speed improvement one of those swims will be a straight endurance swim where I will swim a nice steady pace right till the end and then once pretty tired I will throw in a fast 100 or 150M to finish out the workout. If I get to the pool for a 4th time in a week then that one is a free swim and I do whatever the heck I feel like doing. If you're swimming quite hard in the sets and taking appropriate recovery time it's not really that hard to swim continuously for those events. Doing an HIM swim hasn't been difficult after killing it for 2,000-2,500 yd main sets as I just back off the pace. Really watch the recovery time in the sets and it should come fairly well even without any specific practice. Too long and yes, it could be an issue. Not often that I'll be truly recovered, just enough to lessen the burning. Leading into the event it will help to optimize things some more to at least get some bigger intervals in there, but there isn't a need to do the really long race-length continuous swims on such a consistent basis. Farther out from the event do what you can to get as fast as possible. Many can make enough gains this way that their pacing could be a bit off and still come out ahead in both time and energy spent. |
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2014-01-31 12:26 PM in reply to: RRH_88 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Originally posted by RRH_88 ... But I also think that you need to do the endurance swims as well where you just get in and start doing laps nonstop for the entire time, after all you can't just get out there and swim a mile and a half or 2.5 miles nonstop like you will do for a half or an Ironman if you are not used to doing that beforehand. ... there's probably a big 'mental' benefit to doing some long sets. i.e. being comfortable that you 'can' do it. Also, I find long sets helpful for getting the feel of endurance pacing. How hard can you go, and sustain it without making your arms feel like lead. So, yeah. I definitely include this in my training. I do 500's, 250's, 100's and 50's. I've never done 25's. hmmmm. Probably not a bad idea. Anyway; here's most of what I know about endurance training. 90% of the benefit come from volume and consistency. everything else we talk about here is merely to optimize what you're getting out of that volume and consistency. And 90% of that remaining 10% can be answered by this method: Running: Mostly easy, sometimes hard Cycling: sometimes hard, sometimes easy swimming: mostly hard, sometimes easy
So, if you're talking about whether you should do 100's with 15s rest or 50's with 10s rest.... then you're really just talking about optimizing that last 1% of your training. Getting to the pool is the important part. |
2014-01-31 1:38 PM in reply to: morey000 |
Expert 2098 Ontario Canada | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? The reason I like doing the long set is as I fatique I can feel my stroke gradually start to fall apart usually between 1800 and 2500 M somewhere and by paying attention to this can learn how to recognize this and make corrections to stay in reasonably good form, also as mentioned having the mental aspect of Knowing that I can do this helps when the going gets tough especially in an OWS situation, lets face it when you are swimming in a pool you always know that you can stop anytime and take a break if you have to and that the life guards are there if you have a problem, but that becomes a bit more difficult when you are a 1/2 mile or more from shore and in a bit of panic because you got kicked in the head or the ribs by someone or fatigue sets in and you see the shore way the F over there and the closest guy on a board is where??, Having that mental edge is worth it to me I guess. But I love doing balls to the wall fast 25's and fast 50's as well |
2014-01-31 1:50 PM in reply to: RRH_88 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? I understand that feeling as well. But the suggestion was to take another look at the training scheme if the long swims are so "necessary" to combat that feeling they "need" to be in there weekly. Particularly for someone only swimming three times a week. |
2014-01-31 5:50 PM in reply to: schaumi |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Since you do have a swim background, and no pace clock, it would probably be easiest just to look up some workouts (online or in a book) and then do them by distance. I don't know how competitive your race was, but if you're 1:30 pace or under, then somewhere in the 3000m-3500m range sounds about right for 45 minutes of swimming. Sara Maclarty's "B" workouts on her site are in that range. She also had a great series of workouts in Triathlete magazine (December issue) called "4 Weeks to Your Fastest 1500" that focus on race-pace training for that event--a mix of big 100's sets with short rest intervals; harder 100's mixed with pulling for speed/strength, and longer race-pace repeats, I've been doing those to transition from base building into more race-pace work. They are definitely not for beginners and really push me; I've been doing each week twice as the progression's a bit fast for me, and adding a different workout (more IM's or stroke, to get a break from long freestyle) every week or two for variety. |
2014-01-31 5:54 PM in reply to: schaumi |
New user 324 | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? I'm the guy that just gets in the pools and swims for x minutes. I have done set workouts twice -- both middle of last summer, but at time when i switched over to OWS and didn't get back in the pool for the rest of the season. All other swims before that since '07 have just been back and forthing it. Hoping to change that right now though. just got a book (literally, it came yesterday) i saw recommended in the forum (Swim Workouts For Triathletes), and plan to do structured workouts this year. hoping it will really help. I haven't started using it yet, but I read through it today and it looks user friendly even for a swim idiot like me. |
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2014-02-01 9:32 AM in reply to: schaumi |
Member 763 | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? I generally swim one long set by time (if there's a pace clock) or just by counting laps (if there is no clock) and assuming a certain pace. I think that making sure you can do the distance is important first, and then you can fine tune with intensity. Interval training will help you build the endurance, but volume imho is key. So, if you want to swim continuously for 44 minutes or whatever time, then that's ok. In alot of ways, one long swim is perhaps the best way to mimic how you swim on race day. If I'm doing intervals, I generally just count the time that I'm actually swimming and do not count rest time. All this said, I find swim training to be the most 'loosey goosey' in terms of timing. Sometime my goggles fog up a bit and I can't see the clock anyway, so at least for me, there is a fair amount of guesstimattion in my swim workouts. |
2014-02-03 12:52 PM in reply to: schaumi |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Swim Training on a Time Basis? Originally posted by schaumi I'm signed up for my first Oly in May and am following one of the training plans on here. It calls out how many minutes to bike or swim or run and on what days. For the run part, I hop on the treadmill or run around the neighborhood until my time is up. No problem. But what do I do about the swimming? Today was supposed to be 44 minutes or something. I'm not going to jump in the pool and just swim continuously for 44 minutes. How do I gage my time? Measure actual time swimming and not count rest time? Use the total time if I'm doing shorter distances on a set time? How do other people do time based swim training? Any suggestions? Everyone here knows that I can throw otu any number of complex suggestoins for what to dow ith your swim training time. To be honest...I trained for my first olympic using a minutes based plan from this site many, many years ago. If it said 44 minutes, I'd try to make my actual swim time 44 minutes, and do some 25s, 50s & 100s just like Simpson Bro said. It helps to have some structure but for your first, you want to be confortable and comfident in the swim...don't worry about speed or pace. Do some open water at least 2-3 times if possible before hand as well. |
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