General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Lactate/VO2 Test Results Rss Feed  
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2014-02-05 11:34 AM

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Subject: Lactate/VO2 Test Results

Background -
I got a lactate threshold test because I'm pretty weak on the bike and didn't start cycling until Dec 1, 2013. I wanted to know my training zones so I don't over train. I got a VO2 because the guy testing me talked me into it. I don't understand the relationship between my VO2, RER, and Lactate Threshold. Attached are my results.

My confusion & blubbering -
So I got my AT, which says is 164bpm. Great, love it. But then my VO2 Max is 180bpm, which means my AT is at 91% of my VO2 Max. Isn't that an extremely positive indicator? How could this be possible for someone who just started cycling 2 months ago? Also my RER starts at .96 at the lowest level, which is almost 100% carbohydrate metabolism immediately. This is horrible because I'm training for a full IM and my RER indicates that I would need to eat a ton of CHO during the race to keep from bonking.

So far my only useful piece of information from this pricey 3 hour test is that my AT on the bike 164bpm. Could I possibly get more useful information out of this data? Thoughts?






Attachments
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VO2 and Lactate results1.pdf (32KB - 45 downloads)


2014-02-05 12:15 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
The test was three hours and they didn't give you recommendations on training zones?

When I did it (lactate only) it took about an hour and that included a discussion about how to apply it to my training. I also got a detailed report afterwards about what it all meant.
2014-02-05 1:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Originally posted by SlowPoke99


Background -
I got a lactate threshold test because I'm pretty weak on the bike and didn't start cycling until Dec 1, 2013. I wanted to know my training zones so I don't over train. I got a VO2 because the guy testing me talked me into it. I don't understand the relationship between my VO2, RER, and Lactate Threshold. Attached are my results.

My confusion & blubbering -
So I got my AT, which says is 164bpm. Great, love it. But then my VO2 Max is 180bpm, which means my AT is at 91% of my VO2 Max. Isn't that an extremely positive indicator? How could this be possible for someone who just started cycling 2 months ago? Also my RER starts at .96 at the lowest level, which is almost 100% carbohydrate metabolism immediately. This is horrible because I'm training for a full IM and my RER indicates that I would need to eat a ton of CHO during the race to keep from bonking.

So far my only useful piece of information from this pricey 3 hour test is that my AT on the bike 164bpm. Could I possibly get more useful information out of this data? Thoughts?





There is one really useful piece of info, your HR and RER at IM pace.
At lactic threshold your wattage was about 225watts. So let's say this is your FTP. The point where your lactate goes past 4.0
You would race IM at about 68% of that = 153watts. So about 139BPM ?
Your RER is .95 at that point, which is in fact high. You could do a RER to CHO/min calculation to figure out your nutrition needs.

You can get your training zones.

Your VO2max is not high. Probably some work to be done there.

That is a quick look, it would need to be refined and something they probably should have done for you.



Edited by marcag 2014-02-05 1:53 PM
2014-02-05 5:38 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Originally posted by SlowPoke99


Background -
I got a lactate threshold test because I'm pretty weak on the bike and didn't start cycling until Dec 1, 2013. I wanted to know my training zones so I don't over train. I got a VO2 because the guy testing me talked me into it. I don't understand the relationship between my VO2, RER, and Lactate Threshold. Attached are my results.

My confusion & blubbering -
So I got my AT, which says is 164bpm. Great, love it. But then my VO2 Max is 180bpm, which means my AT is at 91% of my VO2 Max. Isn't that an extremely positive indicator? How could this be possible for someone who just started cycling 2 months ago? Also my RER starts at .96 at the lowest level, which is almost 100% carbohydrate metabolism immediately. This is horrible because I'm training for a full IM and my RER indicates that I would need to eat a ton of CHO during the race to keep from bonking.

So far my only useful piece of information from this pricey 3 hour test is that my AT on the bike 164bpm. Could I possibly get more useful information out of this data? Thoughts?





I would just plug 164 into a zone calculator like here on BT and use those trianing zones along with a good plan.

No you cannot get any more useful data out of this test unfortunately. You can get another test exactly like this in 2, 3, 6 months to assess how well your training is working.

What too 3 hours? the whole protocol was 24 minutes. I realize there are other things that occur.

I do lactate tests, minus the Vo2 for my athletes and the whole process take about 1 1/2 hours from the time they walk in until the are ready to go home.

I do it in conjunction with field testing like a 1 x 20 or 2 x 20 minute test to cross reference how the lactate tests lines up with what they are capable of doing.

Overall this test represents a starting point for you. your Vo2 is about the same as my Vo2...and my VO2 is not high for an endurance athlete. Sorry(!) but it can be trained to some degree especially if you are totally new to the sport. It also depends on weight as it is typically measured in ml/kg so the lower the kg's go the higher your VO2 goes.

I'd pair this up with a home tst on your trainer or if you live in a sunny local outdoors, to see what real world results you get and how the breakpoint of HR 164 lines up with your avg HR fora 20 minute or longer test. if you have a power meter to go along with it so much the better. You need more than 1 reference point to avoid getting expensive tests every 2-3 months.

They are nice, but you need a real world way to correlate the results and track intermediate results.
2014-02-05 5:41 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Also what you at that day and in preceedign days will affect your RER and carb/protein relationship. Reduce carb intake and your body gets better at burning fat. Train at subthreshold levels or any trainign that raises FTP and by definition you get better at burning fat.

Also not that it might have made a huge difference in results, but the steps look to be about 30 Watts. That's a pro level of step test. For men I typcially do 25 Watts and for women 20 Watts and for small women and slight men I may even do 15 W steps.

Not that 30 W is wrong, but the step below that your HR was 154...and jumped to 164. What's happening at 160?
2014-02-26 4:35 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been busy training.

Yeah, he gave me a separate document with training zones but it wasn't very detailed. The actual test was 20 minutes long, but the set up, break down, and review afterward took the other 2:40. I probably won't go back for a follow up. I'll try LifeTime Fitness next time.


2014-02-26 4:45 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
AdventureBear, thanks for the thoughtful reply. You gave me some very useful information to consider. I'll conduct some field tests and compare it to the lab test.

I was given instructions to do some fasted LSD rides once per week. For example, right after waking don't eat, hop on the bike, and go for 3 hours at a very low heart rate. The lab student suggested a heart rate of about 140bpm for 3 hours, fasted.

Are fasted long steady distance (at low heart rate) rides something many ultra distance athletes use to help train the body to metabolize fat?
2014-02-26 4:51 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Do you know what equipment was used for the test?

Shane
2014-02-26 4:54 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results

Many are way smarter at this than me, but recalling my test, AT is basically LT and it coincided as expected between my LT field tests and my VO2 testing.

As mentioned above, just plug 164,  your AT, in the zone calculator under LT and it will spit out zone for your biking within a beat or two.  And really can't imagine that it makes a difference between a beat or two...

2014-02-26 5:18 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
A stationary bike, equipped just for these tests. and a VO2 mask to measure carbon exhaled. And a handheld blood tester used when my finger was pricked at every level.

Specific names of the equipment I'm not sure.

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Do you know what equipment was used for the test?

Shane
2014-02-26 5:29 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Originally posted by SlowPoke99

A stationary bike, equipped just for these tests. and a VO2 mask to measure carbon exhaled. And a handheld blood tester used when my finger was pricked at every level.

Specific names of the equipment I'm not sure.


The reason I ask is that the VO2max equipment used in many gyms provide very poor results and the fact that the test only lasted 20 minutes concerns me about the testing. In the future, if you want your VO2max tested, ask how they will calibrate the machine and if they say it self calibrates, put your money back in your pocket and walk away.

For the blood lactate, how often did they draw blood (might have been in the initial post - sorry if I've forgotten) and do you have all the data points?

Shane

Shane


2014-02-26 6:14 PM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Originally posted by SlowPoke99

AdventureBear, thanks for the thoughtful reply. You gave me some very useful information to consider. I'll conduct some field tests and compare it to the lab test.

I was given instructions to do some fasted LSD rides once per week. For example, right after waking don't eat, hop on the bike, and go for 3 hours at a very low heart rate. The lab student suggested a heart rate of about 140bpm for 3 hours, fasted.

Are fasted long steady distance (at low heart rate) rides something many ultra distance athletes use to help train the body to metabolize fat?


I hope you got additional instructions?

Doing 3 hour fasted rides is not really something I would recommend to someone just beginning their endurance cycling "career". I'd say that's a tweak that people who have been training for awhile and looking for additional ways to boost some biochemical changes might try...never would i suggest this as a staple for someone at the level you describe. Ugh. Sorry I think you got some OK data and some bad advice. Lab student...how old? What's his background in coaching? In endurance training or racing? is he an undergrad or a grad student? Does he look at athlete's results or just numbers in a lab?

Sorry I'm in a sour mood tonight.

PLug the 164 number in to the LT calculator.

Do 1 long ride per week at an easy effort when the weather starts warming up where you live. start at 90 min, work up to 3 hrs over the summer
Do 1 ride per week with "Zone 4" or "threshold zone" HR efforts. Start with 4 x 5' efforts for a total of 20 minutes> Each week add another 5' total up to a total of 60' minutes in a single session. divide these minutes into progressively longer Z4 efforts (4 x 8, 3 x10, 2 x 12, 2 x 15, 1 x 20, 1 x 30 etc, etc) Doing 3 x 20' zone 4 is a respectable advanced workout session to build up to over the course of the summer...or even for next year.
Do 1 ride per week with anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes of Zone 5 work. 5 x 1', 5 x 2', 5 x 3', 5x4', 5x 5', 5x6' progressing from week to week, or every 2 weeks or whatever.


Those are just ideas for variety in training, not a prescription for best results. but doing 1 ride in each zone plus a long ride easy will give you rapid progress, and you'll get a feel for what types/how much work you think is helping the best. not 3 hour fasted rides weekly (maybe in the future sure).
2014-02-27 7:12 AM
in reply to: SlowPoke99

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Subject: RE: Lactate/VO2 Test Results
Originally posted by SlowPoke99



I was given instructions to do some fasted LSD rides once per week. For example, right after waking don't eat, hop on the bike, and go for 3 hours at a very low heart rate. The lab student suggested a heart rate of about 140bpm for 3 hours, fasted.



This sounds like a bad idea! Try this, my guess is you will bonk and feel like a bowl of jello for the next 3 or 4 days.
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