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2014-02-21 10:18 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by GoosedogSure, because speed skating is football/basketball/baseball/soccer in the Netherlands. It's pretty easy to devote resources to the sport when every boy in the country wants to be Kramer when they grow up.
And that is one of the problems in America. Most people want to be football, basketball, baseball players here. The ones that become triathletes come from swim/run backgrounds in college, or cycling as well. The specialization is minimal, if existent here in the States. I would help that women's triathlon in the NCAA brings more visibility for the sport at a developmental level. I also hope USAT makes coaching clinics more beneficial, or have it take more then 48 hours to earn a certification. Or we can just re-write the entire curriculum. I also think that WTC and Ironman is a barrier for the sport. So many young guns want to do an Ironman, which is great to see, but Ironman is not the distance to develop an athlete over time.
. You are really going all out on this one aren't you Ben? ;-). I doubt that generalizing about 'Europe' and 'the problems in America' has a lot of relevance here. I'm personally not sure it's much more complicated than the simple fact is that in the Netherlands they CARE a lot more about some of these winter Olympic sports. In the USA, we 'tend' to CARE more about sports like football, basketball, baseball etc. I'm not sure how this is 'wrong', but the truth is our Best athletes in the USA just aren't drawn to winter Olympic sports, or for that fact, sports like triathlon. Lots of great American triathletes, for sure, but not the same draw or talent pool as the ones I mentioned. I'm not sure that this is 'a problem' at all. God bless those in the Netherlands for loving these sports like speed skating. They deserve their success they've had. To me, and i suspect the vast majority of Americans, the Winter Olympics are fun to watch, but they represent a lot of fringe sports that many folks simply don't have exposure to. I consider triathlon a fringe sport from the perspective of most Americans and the media as well. This from someone who's been in the sport a long time and still loves it. In no way am I putting down the sport of triathlon, or for that fact speed skating, heck I love triathlon, I'm just not living in an idealistic world of what the focus is in America and probably more importantly, I'm not of the opinion that the focus America has on the sports like football is somehow a problem. Embrace the fringivity, so to speak, of triathlon lol.


I agree completely that we care about other sports more. But you are missing my point, or maybe I am failing to deliver it properly, or just went off on too much of a tangent after some coffee . U.S. speed skating team got a lot of grief about their performance in the olympics along with their suits. Of course after they switched back to their original suits their performance didn't increase at all, and they just resigned with Under Armour, but hey lets all say it was the suit and not the engine in the suit. The point I am making is that when Americans don't get gold it comes as a shock to others sometimes. We don't dominate speed skating because we develop our athletes, the interest isn't in our blood. Yet Americans think they can just waltz in every four years and get their gold medal. It takes a lot more then that and sometimes we miss that understanding. Listen to what the Dutch coach says, he is absolutely right on everything, and the American commentators are making the usual American type of responses.

If we want to win gold medals in these sports we need to put in developmental programs and increase participation. The dutch dominate speed skating because it is their life, just like football is for us.


2014-02-21 10:27 PM
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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by Fred D
Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by GoosedogSure, because speed skating is football/basketball/baseball/soccer in the Netherlands. It's pretty easy to devote resources to the sport when every boy in the country wants to be Kramer when they grow up.
And that is one of the problems in America. Most people want to be football, basketball, baseball players here. The ones that become triathletes come from swim/run backgrounds in college, or cycling as well. The specialization is minimal, if existent here in the States. I would help that women's triathlon in the NCAA brings more visibility for the sport at a developmental level. I also hope USAT makes coaching clinics more beneficial, or have it take more then 48 hours to earn a certification. Or we can just re-write the entire curriculum. I also think that WTC and Ironman is a barrier for the sport. So many young guns want to do an Ironman, which is great to see, but Ironman is not the distance to develop an athlete over time.
. You are really going all out on this one aren't you Ben? ;-). I doubt that generalizing about 'Europe' and 'the problems in America' has a lot of relevance here. I'm personally not sure it's much more complicated than the simple fact is that in the Netherlands they CARE a lot more about some of these winter Olympic sports. In the USA, we 'tend' to CARE more about sports like football, basketball, baseball etc. I'm not sure how this is 'wrong', but the truth is our Best athletes in the USA just aren't drawn to winter Olympic sports, or for that fact, sports like triathlon. Lots of great American triathletes, for sure, but not the same draw or talent pool as the ones I mentioned. I'm not sure that this is 'a problem' at all. God bless those in the Netherlands for loving these sports like speed skating. They deserve their success they've had. To me, and i suspect the vast majority of Americans, the Winter Olympics are fun to watch, but they represent a lot of fringe sports that many folks simply don't have exposure to. I consider triathlon a fringe sport from the perspective of most Americans and the media as well. This from someone who's been in the sport a long time and still loves it. In no way am I putting down the sport of triathlon, or for that fact speed skating, heck I love triathlon, I'm just not living in an idealistic world of what the focus is in America and probably more importantly, I'm not of the opinion that the focus America has on the sports like football is somehow a problem. Embrace the fringivity, so to speak, of triathlon lol.
I agree completely that we care about other sports more. But you are missing my point, or maybe I am failing to deliver it properly, or just went off on too much of a tangent after some coffee . U.S. speed skating team got a lot of grief about their performance in the olympics along with their suits. Of course after they switched back to their original suits their performance didn't increase at all, and they just resigned with Under Armour, but hey lets all say it was the suit and not the engine in the suit. The point I am making is that when Americans don't get gold it comes as a shock to others sometimes. We don't dominate speed skating because we develop our athletes, the interest isn't in our blood. Yet Americans think they can just waltz in every four years and get their gold medal. It takes a lot more then that and sometimes we miss that understanding. Listen to what the Dutch coach says, he is absolutely right on everything, and the American commentators are making the usual American type of responses. If we want to win gold medals in these sports we need to put in developmental programs and increase participation. The dutch dominate speed skating because it is their life, just like football is for us.

Ben - are you having a "stream of consciousness" day?  Now you are comparing developmental programs of triathlon and speed skating??  LOL  I bet you can really get some dead air if you email or call USAspeedskating.   

Dude - it's the Netherlands.....nobody cares about sports there......really.



Edited by Left Brain 2014-02-21 10:35 PM
2014-02-21 10:47 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics

Originally posted by Left Brain

Momma don't want Bobby playing no foolskating.

I remember a time, long ago, when 'serious' threads would get to 3-4 pages before you could throw down a WaterBoy reference.  THAT'S the problem with America.  NO FOCUS!!  lol

2014-02-21 10:59 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by Left Brain

Momma don't want Bobby playing no foolskating.

I remember a time, long ago, when 'serious' threads would get to 3-4 pages before you could throw down a WaterBoy reference.  THAT'S the problem with America.  NO FOCUS!!  lol

BT was just better back then......I miss those days.  

2014-02-21 11:29 PM
in reply to: Fred D


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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Yes, I agree that his comments are off the mark. In American Football, the intent is not to injure the guy across the line of scrimmage in front of you. The intent is to KNOCK HIM OUT OF THE GAME! There is a difference.....(smile).

That said, as a 54-year old, beat up guy with 7 years of jr. high/high school/semi-pro ball experience back in the day, there is a good chance that my joints are "limiters" in my triathlon training! There is price that is paid on the gridiron, no matter what level you begin with, or end up with. It is violent.

2014-02-22 12:02 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics

Originally posted by Jason NThe 2013 combined player salaries for the all NFL teams was right around $3.5 billion.  How much are these successful Dutch speed skaters going to make this year while capitalizing on their fancy medals?

What a waste indeed.

The answer to your question is about $3.49 billion less.



2014-02-22 1:58 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by Jason NThe 2013 combined player salaries for the all NFL teams was right around $3.5 billion.  How much are these successful Dutch speed skaters going to make this year while capitalizing on their fancy medals?

What a waste indeed.

The answer to your question is about $3.49 billion less.

Maybe, but I lived in Holland.  Skaters there are like rock stars.   And those Dutch girls are preeeettttyyyy!!!    :Q

2014-02-22 2:38 AM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by Goosedog

Sure, because speed skating is football/basketball/baseball/soccer in the Netherlands. It's pretty easy to devote resources to the sport when every boy in the country wants to be Kramer when they grow up.








this is incorrect. the Netherlands also has a very good national soccer team, cyclists, rowers, runners, and then there is Van Vlerken. also, the U.S. has a vastly larger population and so plenty of people for every sport. perhaps the problem is you never see obese Dutch kids
2014-02-22 5:44 AM
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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by Left Brain

Momma don't want Bobby playing no foolskating.

I remember a time, long ago, when 'serious' threads would get to 3-4 pages before you could throw down a WaterBoy reference.  THAT'S the problem with America.  NO FOCUS!!  lol

BT was just better back then......I miss those days.  

. No, no! BT is much better these days now that we have your delightful presence.

Edited by Fred D 2014-02-22 5:58 AM
2014-02-22 5:45 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Originally posted by Fred D
BTW, *if* it was our priority, we would win every single medal, without any doubt.... just won't ever be an 'it' sport.




And how would they do this ?

2014-02-22 5:55 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Ben, I think we just don't see the world the same way. I do understand your point of view. In essence you are saying that Americans are 'upset' at our poor performance in speed skating and that until we show more development and emphasis on speed skating, we won't get better. I see it differently. I do NOT think Americans are upset to any real degree over speed skating failures. They might care this week, but it goes out of the consciousness of Americans almost instantly. Speed skating is not a sport that America cares about. Neither is triathlon. I mean this on a mass level, clearly people on this site care about triathlon, but we are a very small segment of the population and our sport is the definition of a fringe sport. The difference is that you think Americans are TRULY upset about speed skating failure. I DONT think they care much beyond the two weeks of the Winter Olympics. Lastly, if the Dutch coach thinks football is dumb, I wonder what he thinks about sports like table tennis (which I'm guessing in Asia has even more fans than football has in America)? Calling someone else's sport 'silly' is, just, well silly.


2014-02-22 5:57 AM
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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Fred DBTW, *if* it was our priority, we would win every single medal, without any doubt.... just won't ever be an 'it' sport.

And how would they do this ?
. I'm guessing that I should simmer down on this thread, as after my last US/Canada showdown with you, as that didn't yo so well for team USA lol....

Edited by Fred D 2014-02-22 5:58 AM
2014-02-22 12:53 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
well today we learned that America doesn't care about hockey either. Just days after an ESPN analyst said the American women's hockey team embarrassed the U.S. by winning silver, the boys, well, if only we cared about hockey in the U.S. - and didn't make them wear defective outfits
2014-02-22 12:57 PM
in reply to: sheesleeva

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics

Originally posted by sheesleeva well today we learned that America doesn't care about hockey either. Just days after an ESPN analyst said the American women's hockey team embarrassed the U.S. by winning silver, the boys, well, if only we cared about hockey in the U.S. - and didn't make them wear defective outfits

I heard their skate sharpener broke.  They would have won with sharper blades, bet on it.

2014-02-22 2:00 PM
in reply to: sheesleeva

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
i would think the only embarrassment was the ESPN analyst that should take a hard look at himself.

those girls show up...fought...and lost to the a team that as won the last 4 olympic.

i m Canadian and understanding hockey very well, this game could have gone both way if it wasn't from the poor officiating. sport is cruel something... it was a terrible turnover....but USA did show up and put on a fight. RESPECT FOR THAT.

2014-02-22 2:31 PM
in reply to: Goosedog

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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Originally posted by Goosedog

Sure, because speed skating is football/basketball/baseball/soccer in the Netherlands. It's pretty easy to devote resources to the sport when every boy in the country wants to be Kramer when they grow up.


Soccer is still by far the number 1 sport in Holland.






2014-02-23 10:51 AM
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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Double post

Edited by Dnn 2014-02-23 11:00 AM
2014-02-23 10:57 AM
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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Did you guys watch the video? That American (whoever he is) is acting like a 12 year old dickhead. Jesus f-ing christ, just listen to him. Embarrasing.

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by Clempson

i think what he is really saying here is that on an international stage we are flushing money down the drain on football, because no one else cares. the best athletes we have go to the sport that pays the most, not the most fringe one they can find. he is right, but that's not how it works over here. olympic sports will never be big in the USA, we only care once every 4 years for the most part. football, basketball, baseball. those are THE sports to do growing up, and to make it big professionally. unless your parents funnel you into something else if you have the genetic talent you will end up in one of those three.

I don't see it that way.

*I* see the Dutch coach saying in essence "here in the Netherlands, our priority is speed skating and in the USA it should be too"




You're wrong, though. Did you watch the video?

Originally posted by Goosedog

Let's use my son as example.






No. This is always a problem in these threads: anecdotal evidence. It's useless

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by Jason NThe 2013 combined player salaries for the all NFL teams was right around $3.5 billion. How much are these successful Dutch speed skaters going to make this year while capitalizing on their fancy medals?

What a waste indeed.




What an embarrasing post. Do you really think money is the highest goal in life? Perhaps you should watch less Hollywood movies

Edited by Dnn 2014-02-23 11:04 AM
2014-02-23 3:38 PM
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Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
Originally posted by Dnn

Did you guys watch the video? That American (whoever he is) is acting like a 12 year old dickhead. Jesus f-ing christ, just listen to him. Embarrasing.

  • ...
  • You're wrong, though. Did you watch the video?

  • ....
  • No. This is always a problem in these threads: anecdotal evidence. It's useless

  • ....
  • What an embarrasing post. Do you really think money is the highest goal in life? Perhaps you should watch less Hollywood movies


    Did someone pee in your cornflakes ?
    2014-02-23 3:52 PM
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    Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics

    Originally posted by marcag
    Originally posted by Dnn Did you guys watch the video? That American (whoever he is) is acting like a 12 year old dickhead. Jesus f-ing christ, just listen to him. Embarrasing. .... You're wrong, though. Did you watch the video? ..... No. This is always a problem in these threads: anecdotal evidence. It's useless ..... What an embarrasing post. Do you really think money is the highest goal in life? Perhaps you should watch less Hollywood movies
    Did someone pee in your cornflakes ?

    Eh.....Dnn is always crabby, I enjoy it, it's usually pretty funny.  



    Edited by Left Brain 2014-02-23 3:59 PM
    2014-02-23 5:45 PM
    in reply to: Dnn

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    Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
    Originally posted by Dnn

    Originally posted by Goosedog

    Let's use my son as example.



    No. This is always a problem in these threads: anecdotal evidence. It's useless



    No? I don't think you know what that means. My son was not provided as evidence. I asked questions. I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm asking how we develop 7-14 year olds with specific triathlon training as someone suggested.




    2014-02-23 5:52 PM
    in reply to: Left Brain

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    Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
    Originally posted by Left Brain

    Originally posted by sheesleeva well today we learned that America doesn't care about hockey either. Just days after an ESPN analyst said the American women's hockey team embarrassed the U.S. by winning silver, the boys, well, if only we cared about hockey in the U.S. - and didn't make them wear defective outfits

    I heard their skate sharpener broke.  They would have won with sharper blades, bet on it.




    he he. really did make me LOL
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