What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics
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2014-02-21 1:36 PM |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics If you haven't seen this video yet I suggest you check it out. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101431838 Once again the Europeans are spot on the money, always refreshing to get some perspective from a Euro coach. "We found something that makes the suit very fast.....the man in the suit" said the Dutch coach. Now translate this over to the sport of triathlon. His comments are more deep then just talking about the suit. If you want to win a medal you need to invest in a medal, you need athletes, but you can't have great athletes without a great developmental program. This is why Americans fall short on the top stage in triathlon, no gold medals, no Ironman World Championships, dominated on the ITU circuit, and beat out by Europeans on our home turf repeatedly. We have the talent and athletes, but USAT lacks the funding and developmental programs. Now back to the to of the story. Last year Lukas Verzbicas (USAT's Golden Boy) came to Wisconsin for a race, he got beat by more then a minute in an olympic distance race. He blamed the fact he didn't have his wetsuit that he didn't win. Again going back to the Dutch coaches statement, "its the man in the suit" that makes it go fast. USAT is still a long way off from reaching the top of the sport. Once their focus is in the right spot and agenda in order, maybe we can see some more success in triathlon at the top end. |
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2014-02-21 1:55 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by bcagle25 If you haven't seen this video yet I suggest you check it out. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101431838Once again the Europeans are spot on the money, always refreshing to get some perspective from a Euro coach. "We found something that makes the suit very fast.....the man in the suit" said the Dutch coach. Now translate this over to the sport of triathlon. His comments are more deep then just talking about the suit. If you want to win a medal you need to invest in a medal, you need athletes, but you can't have great athletes without a great developmental program. This is why Americans fall short on the top stage in triathlon, no gold medals, no Ironman World Championships, dominated on the ITU circuit, and beat out by Europeans on our home turf repeatedly. We have the talent and athletes, but USAT lacks the funding and developmental programs. Now back to the to of the story. Last year Lukas Verzbicas (USAT's Golden Boy) came to Wisconsin for a race, he got beat by more then a minute in an olympic distance race. He blamed the fact he didn't have his wetsuit that he didn't win. Again going back to the Dutch coaches statement, "its the man in the suit" that makes it go fast. USAT is still a long way off from reaching the top of the sport. Once their focus is in the right spot and agenda in order, maybe we can see some more success in triathlon at the top end. Do you spend any amount of time around the Jr. Elite program? While I agree it still needs wokr, we are light years ahead of where we were just 10 years ago. As for Verzbicas, was that before or after his bike crash? If not fopr that crash, I could easily make the argument that he would be ahead of any American when looking at the 2016 Olympic picture. You're talking about one of 5 high schoolers to ever go under 4 minutes in the mile....and a sub 8:30 2 mile. I watched him destroy Huertes in 2010, when Huertes had already made the team. Verzbicas may never reach the potential he showed when he dominated the Jr. World race, but to use him as an example is unfair. Uh...you also realize that USA's Tamara Gorman won last years Jr. Elite Worlds for women, right? Edited by Left Brain 2014-02-21 2:00 PM |
2014-02-21 2:08 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by bcagle25 If you haven't seen this video yet I suggest you check it out. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101431838Once again the Europeans are spot on the money, always refreshing to get some perspective from a Euro coach. "We found something that makes the suit very fast.....the man in the suit" said the Dutch coach. Now translate this over to the sport of triathlon. His comments are more deep then just talking about the suit. If you want to win a medal you need to invest in a medal, you need athletes, but you can't have great athletes without a great developmental program. This is why Americans fall short on the top stage in triathlon, no gold medals, no Ironman World Championships, dominated on the ITU circuit, and beat out by Europeans on our home turf repeatedly. We have the talent and athletes, but USAT lacks the funding and developmental programs. Now back to the to of the story. Last year Lukas Verzbicas (USAT's Golden Boy) came to Wisconsin for a race, he got beat by more then a minute in an olympic distance race. He blamed the fact he didn't have his wetsuit that he didn't win. Again going back to the Dutch coaches statement, "its the man in the suit" that makes it go fast. USAT is still a long way off from reaching the top of the sport. Once their focus is in the right spot and agenda in order, maybe we can see some more success in triathlon at the top end. Do you spend any amount of time around the Jr. Elite program? While I agree it still needs wokr, we are light years ahead of where we were just 10 years ago. As for Verzbicas, was that before or after his bike crash? If not fopr that crash, I could easily make the argument that he would be ahead of any American when looking at the 2016 Olympic picture. You're talking about one of 5 high schoolers to ever go under 4 minutes in the mile....and a sub 8:30 2 mile. I watched him destroy Huertes in 2010, when Huertes had already made the team. Verzbicas may never reach the potential he showed when he dominated the Jr. World race, but to use him as an example is unfair. Uh...you also realize that USA's Tamara Gorman won last years Jr. Elite Worlds for women, right? Yes I do have some experience with the USAT development program, and yes I agree that it is much better then it was 10 years ago. But as a whole USAT is a poorly ran organization from top to bottom. From coaching (ex. Darren Smith failed his level I certification, and has now coached a few olympic medalists) to communication (ever email USAT) and everything else, at least IMO. Visit their office, its on the 2nd floor of a business building with few employees, they are in over their heads. For the Verzbicas comment, yes it was after his crash, it wasn't the result so much I was trying to point out, but the blaming everything but their performance. It's common nature in the American society to say this, that, and the other thing went wrong. Not, hey we are not where we can, need, and should be. Personally I think Ben Kanute has a brighter future then Verzbicas, I guess he also didn't have the bike crash either. That all said, with women's triathlon potentially becoming and NCAA sport, maybe this will get more education, development, and coaching into the sport at a younger age. One can hope/ |
2014-02-21 2:30 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Sure, because speed skating is football/basketball/baseball/soccer in the Netherlands. It's pretty easy to devote resources to the sport when every boy in the country wants to be Kramer when they grow up. |
2014-02-21 2:34 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by Left Brain Yes I do have some experience with the USAT development program, and yes I agree that it is much better then it was 10 years ago. But as a whole USAT is a poorly ran organization from top to bottom. From coaching (ex. Darren Smith failed his level I certification, and has now coached a few olympic medalists) to communication (ever email USAT) and everything else, at least IMO. Visit their office, its on the 2nd floor of a business building with few employees, they are in over their heads. For the Verzbicas comment, yes it was after his crash, it wasn't the result so much I was trying to point out, but the blaming everything but their performance. It's common nature in the American society to say this, that, and the other thing went wrong. Not, hey we are not where we can, need, and should be. Personally I think Ben Kanute has a brighter future then Verzbicas, I guess he also didn't have the bike crash either. That all said, with women's triathlon potentially becoming and NCAA sport, maybe this will get more education, development, and coaching into the sport at a younger age. One can hope/ Originally posted by bcagle25 If you haven't seen this video yet I suggest you check it out. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101431838Once again the Europeans are spot on the money, always refreshing to get some perspective from a Euro coach. "We found something that makes the suit very fast.....the man in the suit" said the Dutch coach. Now translate this over to the sport of triathlon. His comments are more deep then just talking about the suit. If you want to win a medal you need to invest in a medal, you need athletes, but you can't have great athletes without a great developmental program. This is why Americans fall short on the top stage in triathlon, no gold medals, no Ironman World Championships, dominated on the ITU circuit, and beat out by Europeans on our home turf repeatedly. We have the talent and athletes, but USAT lacks the funding and developmental programs. Now back to the to of the story. Last year Lukas Verzbicas (USAT's Golden Boy) came to Wisconsin for a race, he got beat by more then a minute in an olympic distance race. He blamed the fact he didn't have his wetsuit that he didn't win. Again going back to the Dutch coaches statement, "its the man in the suit" that makes it go fast. USAT is still a long way off from reaching the top of the sport. Once their focus is in the right spot and agenda in order, maybe we can see some more success in triathlon at the top end. Do you spend any amount of time around the Jr. Elite program? While I agree it still needs wokr, we are light years ahead of where we were just 10 years ago. As for Verzbicas, was that before or after his bike crash? If not fopr that crash, I could easily make the argument that he would be ahead of any American when looking at the 2016 Olympic picture. You're talking about one of 5 high schoolers to ever go under 4 minutes in the mile....and a sub 8:30 2 mile. I watched him destroy Huertes in 2010, when Huertes had already made the team. Verzbicas may never reach the potential he showed when he dominated the Jr. World race, but to use him as an example is unfair. Uh...you also realize that USA's Tamara Gorman won last years Jr. Elite Worlds for women, right? Every single time I have e-mailed USAT I got an immediate response. Every single time I have called with a question I got it answered before I hung up. Yes, USAT has some work to do, and yes, I know about the different factions concerning the recent elections. But I can tell you this, since I spend a great amount of time around the Youth/Jr. Elite High Performance teams......the development program is certainly NOT being run out of a 2nd floor business office with a few employees. It's run at USAT Select Camps that are put on by educated, capable, and well trained coaches/mentors. It's run on the Youth/Jr. Elite race circuit that have some of the best organized and ran races I've ever been a part of. It's run on a daily basis by youth coaches who have developed recruitment, training, and team programs that are light years ahead of anything you have seen at the collegiate level......not to mention athletes that can mop the floor with all but the very best of collegiate triathletes. Yes, USAT needs to figure out how to proceed with AG athletes vs. Elite development.......but it will take some time. I think posts like yours are thinly diguised jabs (and not so disguised) at an organization while offering NOTHING in the way of suggestions for improvement, and little knowledge of what actually is going on at the development level. As you said, Americans like to whine a lot, huh? Edited by Left Brain 2014-02-21 2:37 PM |
2014-02-21 3:14 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by Goosedog Sure, because speed skating is football/basketball/baseball/soccer in the Netherlands. It's pretty easy to devote resources to the sport when every boy in the country wants to be Kramer when they grow up. And that is one of the problems in America. Most people want to be football, basketball, baseball players here. The ones that become triathletes come from swim/run backgrounds in college, or cycling as well. The specialization is minimal, if existent here in the States. I would help that women's triathlon in the NCAA brings more visibility for the sport at a developmental level. I also hope USAT makes coaching clinics more beneficial, or have it take more then 48 hours to earn a certification. Or we can just re-write the entire curriculum. I also think that WTC and Ironman is a barrier for the sport. So many young guns want to do an Ironman, which is great to see, but Ironman is not the distance to develop an athlete over time. |
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2014-02-21 3:16 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by bcagle25 Originally posted by Left Brain Yes I do have some experience with the USAT development program, and yes I agree that it is much better then it was 10 years ago. But as a whole USAT is a poorly ran organization from top to bottom. From coaching (ex. Darren Smith failed his level I certification, and has now coached a few olympic medalists) to communication (ever email USAT) and everything else, at least IMO. Visit their office, its on the 2nd floor of a business building with few employees, they are in over their heads. For the Verzbicas comment, yes it was after his crash, it wasn't the result so much I was trying to point out, but the blaming everything but their performance. It's common nature in the American society to say this, that, and the other thing went wrong. Not, hey we are not where we can, need, and should be. Personally I think Ben Kanute has a brighter future then Verzbicas, I guess he also didn't have the bike crash either. That all said, with women's triathlon potentially becoming and NCAA sport, maybe this will get more education, development, and coaching into the sport at a younger age. One can hope/ Originally posted by bcagle25 If you haven't seen this video yet I suggest you check it out. http://www.cnbc.com/id/101431838Once again the Europeans are spot on the money, always refreshing to get some perspective from a Euro coach. "We found something that makes the suit very fast.....the man in the suit" said the Dutch coach. Now translate this over to the sport of triathlon. His comments are more deep then just talking about the suit. If you want to win a medal you need to invest in a medal, you need athletes, but you can't have great athletes without a great developmental program. This is why Americans fall short on the top stage in triathlon, no gold medals, no Ironman World Championships, dominated on the ITU circuit, and beat out by Europeans on our home turf repeatedly. We have the talent and athletes, but USAT lacks the funding and developmental programs. Now back to the to of the story. Last year Lukas Verzbicas (USAT's Golden Boy) came to Wisconsin for a race, he got beat by more then a minute in an olympic distance race. He blamed the fact he didn't have his wetsuit that he didn't win. Again going back to the Dutch coaches statement, "its the man in the suit" that makes it go fast. USAT is still a long way off from reaching the top of the sport. Once their focus is in the right spot and agenda in order, maybe we can see some more success in triathlon at the top end. Do you spend any amount of time around the Jr. Elite program? While I agree it still needs wokr, we are light years ahead of where we were just 10 years ago. As for Verzbicas, was that before or after his bike crash? If not fopr that crash, I could easily make the argument that he would be ahead of any American when looking at the 2016 Olympic picture. You're talking about one of 5 high schoolers to ever go under 4 minutes in the mile....and a sub 8:30 2 mile. I watched him destroy Huertes in 2010, when Huertes had already made the team. Verzbicas may never reach the potential he showed when he dominated the Jr. World race, but to use him as an example is unfair. Uh...you also realize that USA's Tamara Gorman won last years Jr. Elite Worlds for women, right? Every single time I have e-mailed USAT I got an immediate response. Every single time I have called with a question I got it answered before I hung up. Yes, USAT has some work to do, and yes, I know about the different factions concerning the recent elections. But I can tell you this, since I spend a great amount of time around the Youth/Jr. Elite High Performance teams......the development program is certainly NOT being run out of a 2nd floor business office with a few employees. It's run at USAT Select Camps that are put on by educated, capable, and well trained coaches/mentors. It's run on the Youth/Jr. Elite race circuit that have some of the best organized and ran races I've ever been a part of. It's run on a daily basis by youth coaches who have developed recruitment, training, and team programs that are light years ahead of anything you have seen at the collegiate level......not to mention athletes that can mop the floor with all but the very best of collegiate triathletes. Yes, USAT needs to figure out how to proceed with AG athletes vs. Elite development.......but it will take some time. I think posts like yours are thinly diguised jabs (and not so disguised) at an organization while offering NOTHING in the way of suggestions for improvement, and little knowledge of what actually is going on at the development level. As you said, Americans like to whine a lot, huh? So why did it take USAT so long to announce Milwaukee would host AG nationals. Why did they never respond to REV 3 when they asked if/when they were going to put USAT Nationals in 2013 since they planned to do a race 1 hour away the day after AG Nats? These are some of my experiences with USAT's communication |
2014-02-21 3:48 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2014-02-21 3:48 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by bcagle25 And that is one of the problems in America. Most people want to be football, basketball, baseball players here. The ones that become triathletes come from swim/run backgrounds in college, or cycling as well. The specialization is minimal, if existent here in the States. The problems? This is one of the great things about sports in America--lots of choice. If anything, I think there is too much specialization, at too young of an age, for most athletes. |
2014-02-21 3:56 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 629 Grapevine, TX | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Counting men and women, I think 26 or 27 world championships went to Americans, and it gets even more disproportionate if you add the other two podium spots. The world is a big place, Olympics occur only every 4 years and the sport is young. Its a very international sport and when a superstar shows up, they tend to reign for awhile. I don't think Americans are any less prepared than other countries. Edited by FranzZemen 2014-02-21 3:58 PM |
2014-02-21 3:58 PM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
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2014-02-21 3:59 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2014-02-21 4:03 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by Fred D Originally posted by GoosedogSure, because speed skating is football/basketball/baseball/soccer in the Netherlands. It's pretty easy to devote resources to the sport when every boy in the country wants to be Kramer when they grow up. . The one on Seinfeld? Now that would be interesting. |
2014-02-21 4:04 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Member 1004 | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics The Olympics is a fight for image. I enjoy watching and cheering for our team but what difference does it really make other than image. My personal opinion is that sport is for fun and health and challenge. I'll never be close to national competitiveness but I go out for the reasons just mentioned. If image to you is that important, that put up the money and do the ra-ra every four years. I think the money would be better spent on average Joe programs that affect a vastly higher portion of the population rather than just supporting the elite. |
2014-02-21 4:12 PM in reply to: 0 |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Let's use my son as example. He is 7yo and races triathlon - maybe 5-6 races a year. He swims year-round and plays soccer (two seasons), basketball and lacrosse. What would a more specialized triathlon program look like for someone that age? If you are talking about a program similar to the Dutch speed skating system -- what would that mean? What are the countries that are developing elite triathletes doing with their 7-14 yo kids? If anything, I see lack of run programs for kids (before about middle school) as more of a "problem" than lack of specialized triathlon programs. I think he would really enjoy a kids track program, but I just don't think it's available around me. [ETA: This prompted me to use the Google. I think I may have found a local kids track program.] Edited by Goosedog 2014-02-21 4:42 PM |
2014-02-21 4:14 PM in reply to: b2run |
Member 5452 NC | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by b2run The Olympics is a fight for image. I enjoy watching and cheering for our team but what difference does it really make other than image. My personal opinion is that sport is for fun and health and challenge. I'll never be close to national competitiveness but I go out for the reasons just mentioned. If image to you is that important, that put up the money and do the ra-ra every four years. I think the money would be better spent on average Joe programs that affect a vastly higher portion of the population rather than just supporting the elite. You think Noelle Pikus-Pace was in it just for the image? |
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2014-02-21 7:26 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2014-02-21 7:28 PM |
2014-02-21 8:05 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Expert 2192 Greenville, SC | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by Fred D Comments from the Dutch olympic coachwith link) http://espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2014/speedskating/story/_/id/10498174/2014-sochi-olympics-dutch-coach-jillert-anema-says-us-focus-more-speedskating-not-football Anema: "You have a lot of attention for foolish sport, like American football. You waste a lot of talent, athletic talent, in a sport where it's meant to kill each other, to injure each other." I think this sums up everything *I* need to know about this topic. Pretty revealing.... PS: can't wait for football season! i think what he is really saying here is that on an international stage we are flushing money down the drain on football, because no one else cares. the best athletes we have go to the sport that pays the most, not the most fringe one they can find. he is right, but that's not how it works over here. olympic sports will never be big in the USA, we only care once every 4 years for the most part. football, basketball, baseball. those are THE sports to do growing up, and to make it big professionally. unless your parents funnel you into something else if you have the genetic talent you will end up in one of those three. |
2014-02-21 8:16 PM in reply to: Fred D |
Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Yup...can't wait for football season either. And yes...the US does "waste" a lot of talent on football. The 2013 combined player salaries for the all NFL teams was right around $3.5 billion. How much are these successful Dutch speed skaters going to make this year while capitalizing on their fancy medals? What a waste indeed. |
2014-02-21 8:19 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Momma don't want Bobby playing no foolskating. |
2014-02-21 8:20 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Triathlon Canada seems to be doing a slightly better job and has cleaned house recently... in the wake of the screw ups with managing Paula Findlays injuries. http://triathloncanada.com/newsdetails.ch2?uid=Home&newsarticle_id=... As for selecting race sites in a timely fashion TriCan and USAT are awful. Swimming Canada has its national meet hosts through 2016 already selected. |
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2014-02-21 8:29 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
2014-02-21 8:30 PM in reply to: simpsonbo |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by simpsonbo Triathlon Canada seems to be doing a slightly better job and has cleaned house recently... in the wake of the screw ups with managing Paula Findlays injuries. http://triathloncanada.com/newsdetails.ch2?uid=Home&newsarticle... As for selecting race sites in a timely fashion TriCan and USAT are awful. Swimming Canada has its national meet hosts through 2016 already selected. True enough, it's a problem. On the development level, USAT can't tell you where the EDR races will be next year, or what races will be qualifiers for PATCO, Worlds, etc. Furthermore, last year and this year the qualifying races fall right in the middle of the high school track state championship qualification.....ridiculous IMO. |
2014-02-21 8:33 PM in reply to: Goosedog |
Member 1004 | Subject: RE: What we can learn from the Dutch/Olympics Originally posted by Goosedog Originally posted by b2run The Olympics is a fight for image. I enjoy watching and cheering for our team but what difference does it really make other than image. My personal opinion is that sport is for fun and health and challenge. I'll never be close to national competitiveness but I go out for the reasons just mentioned. If image to you is that important, that put up the money and do the ra-ra every four years. I think the money would be better spent on average Joe programs that affect a vastly higher portion of the population rather than just supporting the elite. You think Noelle Pikus-Pace was in it just for the image? Sorry, I don't know who that is. I was referring to the country as a whole, not individuals. |
2014-02-21 8:33 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. Edited by Fred D 2014-02-21 8:34 PM |
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