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2014-02-27 3:58 PM

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Subject: Downhill run training

I'm in week 11 of marathon training for Boston and I'm trying to figure out where to throw in some downhill workouts, 'cuz I hear the downhills are worse than the up.

I'm following Pfitzinger 18/55 plan and he has a nice mix of VO2 Max workouts, long runs, medium long runs, general aerobic runs and speed (though speed is really just "short strides at the end of a recovery run"). No specific hill workouts (when I'm outside, I run in Central Park, so I *am* doing them, just not exactly repeats).

What's a good trade-off here? Do hills instead of ...VO2 Max? General aerobic? Incorporate them into medium long runs?

Help! Thanks!

 



2014-02-27 4:00 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training

Originally posted by swishyskirt

I'm in week 11 of marathon training for Boston and I'm trying to figure out where to throw in some downhill workouts, 'cuz I hear the downhills are worse than the up.

I'm following Pfitzinger 18/55 plan and he has a nice mix of VO2 Max workouts, long runs, medium long runs, general aerobic runs and speed (though speed is really just "short strides at the end of a recovery run"). No specific hill workouts (when I'm outside, I run in Central Park, so I *am* doing them, just not exactly repeats).

What's a good trade-off here? Do hills instead of ...VO2 Max? General aerobic? Incorporate them into medium long runs?

Help! Thanks!

 

I'd most likely incorporate them into the medium long runs (sometimes) and the long runs (sometimes). He does talk about substituting hill work in his book. 

2014-02-27 4:08 PM
in reply to: thebigb

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training

Originally posted by thebigb

Originally posted by swishyskirt

I'm in week 11 of marathon training for Boston and I'm trying to figure out where to throw in some downhill workouts, 'cuz I hear the downhills are worse than the up.

I'm following Pfitzinger 18/55 plan and he has a nice mix of VO2 Max workouts, long runs, medium long runs, general aerobic runs and speed (though speed is really just "short strides at the end of a recovery run"). No specific hill workouts (when I'm outside, I run in Central Park, so I *am* doing them, just not exactly repeats).

What's a good trade-off here? Do hills instead of ...VO2 Max? General aerobic? Incorporate them into medium long runs?

Help! Thanks!

 

I'd most likely incorporate them into the medium long runs (sometimes) and the long runs (sometimes). He does talk about substituting hill work in his book. 

Yeah, that's what I do. I don't think you need to trade anything out. You don't specifically need to do repeats to get the benefits of running hills.

Our coach puts some emphasis on supplemental strength, too, for Boston. So, things like step-ups and step-downs. 

2014-02-27 4:14 PM
in reply to: #4956820


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Subject: RE: Downhill run training
I believe Pfitz advocates training on similar terrain as the race. It may be a bit of work, but if you could find a training loop that approximates the elevation changes at Boston, and run your long runs, and perhaps some of your other training runs on that course. Not sure of the topography of Central Park off hand, but I've been there quite a few times, and know there is some decent ups and downs you can incorporate into your loop.
2014-02-27 4:42 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training

Originally posted by ImSore I believe Pfitz advocates training on similar terrain as the race. It may be a bit of work, but if you could find a training loop that approximates the elevation changes at Boston, and run your long runs, and perhaps some of your other training runs on that course. Not sure of the topography of Central Park off hand, but I've been there quite a few times, and know there is some decent ups and downs you can incorporate into your loop.

Yeah, I basically can't avoid the hills as long as I'm outside. Central Park has several hills that I run as part of my usual route (Harlem Hills, Cat Hill, the Great Hill...fun times). So do I just incorporate them as part of my route, or do I try to run down them in a particular way -- race pace, faster (or, maybe slower?) than I normally would?

2014-02-27 5:09 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training

Originally posted by ImSore I believe Pfitz advocates training on similar terrain as the race. It may be a bit of work, but if you could find a training loop that approximates the elevation changes at Boston, and run your long runs, and perhaps some of your other training runs on that course. Not sure of the topography of Central Park off hand, but I've been there quite a few times, and know there is some decent ups and downs you can incorporate into your loop.

On that note, be sure to simulate your training with your phone in a carry belt or not at all.



2014-02-27 5:10 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training
I am training for Boston as well and do at least two downhill runs a week. One I do at marathon pace for at least 87 miles and I do my other one on my long run. That way your quads get use to pounding and are not thrashed by the time you get to and past heart break hill. The hills are really not that bad in Boston it is just where they are on the course and if you went out too fast you will pay either during them or just after them.

I sometimes will get three downhill runs in week and I am lucky where I live, there are hills everywhere.
2014-02-27 5:37 PM
in reply to: navbtcret

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training

Originally posted by navbtcret I am training for Boston as well and do at least two downhill runs a week. One I do at marathon pace for at least 87 miles and I do my other one on my long run. That way your quads get use to pounding and are not thrashed by the time you get to and past heart break hill. The hills are really not that bad in Boston it is just where they are on the course and if you went out too fast you will pay either during them or just after them. I sometimes will get three downhill runs in week and I am lucky where I live, there are hills everywhere.

 

You may want to consider upping your mileage, might be a little on the low end there

2014-02-27 5:53 PM
in reply to: thebigb

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training

Originally posted by thebigb

Originally posted by navbtcret I am training for Boston as well and do at least two downhill runs a week. One I do at marathon pace for at least 87 miles and I do my other one on my long run. That way your quads get use to pounding and are not thrashed by the time you get to and past heart break hill. The hills are really not that bad in Boston it is just where they are on the course and if you went out too fast you will pay either during them or just after them. I sometimes will get three downhill runs in week and I am lucky where I live, there are hills everywhere.

 

You may want to consider upping your mileage, might be a little on the low end there

Dang. I am ill-prepared for this marathon.

2014-02-27 6:52 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training

Two of the marathons I did last year and will be doing again this year have significant downhill portions.  I need all the help I can get and partially chose these races because of the negative elevation.  The trade-off is some pretty sore quads from the additional pounding.

Fortunately, any longer run around here is going to involve not only hills but long stretches of upward and downward elevation.  I've purposely embraced these stretches and focus on my downhill form when I hit them.  Improving my downhill form is never the primary focus of my workout but whether I'm going long or medium distance I do think about efficiency on my downhill strides.

Oh, and everyone is ill-prepared compared to Ron.  I am amazed at the miles he puts in.

2014-02-27 8:15 PM
in reply to: popsracer

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Subject: RE: Downhill run training
Ooops, I meant 8 miles. My running skills are better than my typing.


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