General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan Rss Feed  
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2014-03-17 3:46 AM

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Subject: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
I'm using the Gale Bernhardt book. I'm on week 8 of 26, and I'm looking around at other plans, wondering if I should switch.

Is this normal for a first IM?


2014-03-17 3:50 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

What are your concerns with the plan?

2014-03-17 4:03 AM
in reply to: #4966337

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
Axterra-
Biggest concern is I'm not doing enough. Only 1 6 hr ride. Builds up at week 20 from 5 to 5 1/2 to 6. Trying to fit in some hill riding in northern Michigan around family time (training for Lake Placid-holly). Trying to fit in a 1/2 IM 6-8 weeks out. Basically what one might expect for a first IM. Guess I'm just looking for reassurance that this is normal.
2014-03-17 4:36 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
I've done a couple IM's and used different plans on each. I'm not familiar with the one your using but I would trust it as I'm sure others have. You're still 19 weeks out and consistent training across all 3 will suit you best. Don't try to overdo it and get injured. I really never doubted if I was doing enough, because I know I put a good effort into the workouts that I had planned just about every day.

Don't sweat it, enjoy the training journey and race day will take care of itself.

Tom
2014-03-17 5:08 AM
in reply to: tallytom

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

Are you saying that there is only one 6 hour ride in the whole plan?  The one thing that I found reassuring for my IM was that I had cycled over 90 miles 6 times, including 3 over 100 miles. Is this a plan with a coach?  If so, bring up your concerns with your coach.  If not, there is nothing keeping you from adding some miles onto some of your rides.

2014-03-17 5:12 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
Look at your goals for a 1st time finish. It is most likely to FINISH strong and healthy. You can not overdue it training for your first one. If you do you will end up on the DNS list.

On a second note, Lake Placid bike course is not friendly during the second loop. Concentrate on hills and strong muscle endurance for the hills and flats.

Third, as with many ironman triathletes, we all question our training throughout the year. Stay strong mentally and physically and you will be good to go.


2014-03-17 6:07 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

Successful IM is not based on one type of workout or one workout but the sum of the whole of all your training.

There are different views on the long bike in training for IM. Some plans/coaches have lots of long rides and other have fewer.  For my first IM I wanted to know I could do the distance and made sure my coach had me ride close to the distance not necessary for racing but often for the mental belief you can do it. Most of my other IMs I would do some rides in the 80-95 mile range but no longer. I find that once you can ride for 5 hours, 6 or 7 is not that much different. I find the 3-4 hour rides that are at harder effort of IM key to race success.

Those long swims, rides and runs are often key mental milestones for first time IM athletes by helping you gain confidence that yes you can do it.

If you doubt your plan and it will be a lingering concern now is the time to change. Sure you can add time or distance to your long rides later in your plan but what else are you going to change. For me trusting the plan or the coach is key and mucking around with it means you don't trust it.

 

 

 

2014-03-17 8:13 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

Originally posted by leftrunner Axterra- Biggest concern is I'm not doing enough. Only 1 6 hr ride. Builds up at week 20 from 5 to 5 1/2 to 6. Trying to fit in some hill riding in northern Michigan around family time (training for Lake Placid-holly). Trying to fit in a 1/2 IM 6-8 weeks out. Basically what one might expect for a first IM. Guess I'm just looking for reassurance that this is normal.

As Kathy noted, IM training is all about the accumulated stress of your training and not one singular workout.

I've done a half dozen IMs.  Only time I ever did a training ride over 4:30 (and most are in the 4:00-4:15 range, 80-85 miles) was in the build-up to Ironman Canada last year because the Whistler hills kind of scared this flatlander.  I drove out somewhere to ride some hills for more specific training but otherwise wouldn't bother with it.

My IM bike splits have been 5:40 for my first IM a few years ago to just a shade over 5 hours this past year.  Average around 5:15-ish.

You can create the same training stress in a ride of less time by upping the intensity a bit.  Not sure if you have a power meter or not but a simple TSS calculation would give you something like this:

5 hour ride and 70% equals 245 TSS

4.5 hour ride at 73.8% equals 245 TSS

4 hour ride at 78.3% equals 245 TSS

So I can accomplish the same training stress in one hour less time by riding 8% "harder."  I'd prefer less time but more intensity.

How many rides and how many hours are you riding per week?

2014-03-17 10:46 AM
in reply to: tallytom

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
Originally posted by tallytom

I've done a couple IM's and used different plans on each. I'm not familiar with the one your using but I would trust it as I'm sure others have. You're still 19 weeks out and consistent training across all 3 will suit you best. Don't try to overdo it and get injured. I really never doubted if I was doing enough, because I know I put a good effort into the workouts that I had planned just about every day.

Don't sweat it, enjoy the training journey and race day will take care of itself.

Tom


I agree with this one. don't burn yourself out 8 weeks into it.
2014-03-17 10:58 AM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

It isn't uncommon to question the training plan and whether you're doing enough or not. 

I'm not familiar with your specific plan, but as long as you get a couple high-quality 5-6 hour rides in, you'll do OK in the race if you can keep your effort in check.  I think it is far more common for athletes to do too many 6-hour rides, and they end up injured or burned out.  By the end of training, they do not want to see their bike ever again, and yet they have a 6-hour date they can't cancel. 

I've done the BT Intermediate IM plan (loosely followed...) and it alternates long bike with long run weekends.  As such, there aren't a lot of 6-hour rides. 

2014-03-17 10:58 AM
in reply to: sheesleeva

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
When I was looking at Century Ride training plans one common theme is that they all seemed to really push that once you get over about 75-80 miles, it's all the same! Having only done just under 75 at my longest ride ever, I cannot speak to this. Also, there is this thing about having to run afterwards...

In all my training, the one thing that I have learned, though, is that this cumulative stress idea is sure a big deal and is very important, much more so than the individual workouts.

Good luck figuring it out!


2014-03-17 11:49 AM
in reply to: Danno77

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

Originally posted by Danno77 When I was looking at Century Ride training plans one common theme is that they all seemed to really push that once you get over about 75-80 miles, it's all the same! Having only done just under 75 at my longest ride ever, I cannot speak to this. Also, there is this thing about having to run afterwards... In all my training, the one thing that I have learned, though, is that this cumulative stress idea is sure a big deal and is very important, much more so than the individual workouts. Good luck figuring it out!

From experience, it both is and isn't. There isn't really much more you're going to pick up by going longer at once, but the rides are longer so do take more out of you. And in that sense they can compromise your overall training due to the additional recovery needed.

2014-03-17 1:05 PM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
Thanks for all of the input. I'm feeling better. Two friends used this plan to finish IMs recently. One of them is my age with similar background and similar times in 70.3 and 26.2. He has finished 3 IMs in the 12:30-14:00 range. He used the Gale Bernhrdt plan for the last 2 and loved it.

2014-03-17 1:31 PM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
Kinda surprised there were no "An IM ride is only 4 hours, so your plan sounds good" posts, lol.
2014-03-17 2:21 PM
in reply to: Danno77

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

Originally posted by Danno77 Kinda surprised there were no "An IM ride is only 4 hours, so your plan sounds good" posts, lol.

that would be the response on SlowTwitch.  

2014-03-17 6:10 PM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
In my limited experience beginning to worry if you're doing enough is definitely normal around 4-5 months out. I know I did.

Again I only have one IM under my belt so my personal experience is limited but it's really just the last few months 2-3 that have really heavy volume. Be patient and don't rush it.

I personally feel there is a lot to be learned in a 100+ mile ride. The mental preparation for me is completely different than for a 60-70 mile ride. IMO if you're training correctly (ie you're ready for the 100 mile ride) you shouldn't have a terrible recovery after a ride that long. My recovery is actually tougher after a fast 60 mile ride than a 100 mile IM training ride.

Also in my limited experience as you get closer to the race your plan may shift from time to miles so for example you might do a 4 - 5- 6 hour build followed by recovery and then find that the following weeks will say 70, 85, miles 100 miles. I think this is to make sure you don't somehow go out for 6 hours and only cover 70 miles and think you're ready for 112 on race day.

In any event it's hard to trust a plan or a coach but it's important to be able to do that. On the starting line I found great comfort in being able to say I did the workouts so now I'm ready to do this race. So if you really don't trust the plan switch now not later.

Good luck in your Ironman training.


2014-03-17 7:14 PM
in reply to: leftrunner

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
Originally posted by leftrunner

Thanks for all of the input. I'm feeling better. Two friends used this plan to finish IMs recently. One of them is my age with similar background and similar times in 70.3 and 26.2. He has finished 3 IMs in the 12:30-14:00 range. He used the Gale Bernhrdt plan for the last 2 and loved it.




Gale Bernhardt is very well respected in the triathlon world. At least the triathlon world that I live in. I would follow the plan.

I have real family issues when the bike rides get over 5 hours. I had a bunch of five hour rides in my training for Tahoe. I might have had one 5.5 hour ride. It took me a little over six to finish off that monster of a course and I felt like I was very well prepared for the ride.

You have already heard this from others but the real secret is consistency. Follow the plan. Do ALL of the workouts (I know life gets in the way sometimes) and you will be prepared for your race.
2014-03-18 12:42 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan

Originally posted by GMAN 19030

Originally posted by leftrunner Axterra- Biggest concern is I'm not doing enough. Only 1 6 hr ride. Builds up at week 20 from 5 to 5 1/2 to 6. Trying to fit in some hill riding in northern Michigan around family time (training for Lake Placid-holly). Trying to fit in a 1/2 IM 6-8 weeks out. Basically what one might expect for a first IM. Guess I'm just looking for reassurance that this is normal.

As Kathy noted, IM training is all about the accumulated stress of your training and not one singular workout.

I've done a half dozen IMs.  Only time I ever did a training ride over 4:30 (and most are in the 4:00-4:15 range, 80-85 miles) was in the build-up to Ironman Canada last year because the Whistler hills kind of scared this flatlander.  I drove out somewhere to ride some hills for more specific training but otherwise wouldn't bother with it.

My IM bike splits have been 5:40 for my first IM a few years ago to just a shade over 5 hours this past year.  Average around 5:15-ish.

You can create the same training stress in a ride of less time by upping the intensity a bit.  Not sure if you have a power meter or not but a simple TSS calculation would give you something like this:

5 hour ride and 70% equals 245 TSS

4.5 hour ride at 73.8% equals 245 TSS

4 hour ride at 78.3% equals 245 TSS

So I can accomplish the same training stress in one hour less time by riding 8% "harder."  I'd prefer less time but more intensity.

How many rides and how many hours are you riding per week?

^^^More or less this^^^

IMO, this demonstrates the importance of training at an appropriate intensity.  Threads about "am I training enough hours or miles?" are common, but threads asking "am I training at the right intensity?" are less common.  As implied above, a 4 hour ride that challenges you is usually going to be more beneficial than tooling along soft pedaling for 6 or 7 hours.

I like Gale's plans for the average AGer looking to finish upright with a smile.  Unless you have another reason to question the appropriateness of the plan for you, such as struggling to complete sessions, an injury, or every session feels ridiculously easy, stick with the plan.

 

2014-03-18 1:41 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: 19 weeks out and not trusting my IM plan
Originally posted by TriMyBest

IMO, this demonstrates the importance of training at an appropriate intensity.  Threads about "am I training enough hours or miles?" are common, but threads asking "am I training at the right intensity?" are less common.  As implied above, a 4 hour ride that challenges you is usually going to be more beneficial than tooling along soft pedaling for 6 or 7 hours.

I like Gale's plans for the average AGer looking to finish upright with a smile.  Unless you have another reason to question the appropriateness of the plan for you, such as struggling to complete sessions, an injury, or every session feels ridiculously easy, stick with the plan.

 




This is why i like Don, we think similarly enough but differently enough to challenge each other on occasion.

One of our athletes qualified for Kona last year with a long ride of ... wait for it... 80 miles. That's it, a SINGLE long ride of 80 miles, and an average of 8 hours a week for the year.

There were many other workouts that added up to the total training stress that improved his speed & left him fresh for a PR of 9:30 on race day.

it's not about 1 ride. Your concerns MAY be valid but not based on having only a single 6 hour ride.
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