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2014-03-21 4:00 PM

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Subject: Mental Training Sessions (Failure)
Curious to know if any BT people out there employ this idea in their training. Yes most plans are based off the periodized model (Linear, conjugate, block, etc) or polarized model, and some just pull workouts together and string them in a way that gives them what they want. But when it comes to specific sessions does anyone do workouts til failure?

I think one of the more under valued parts in training is mental training within a session. That is finding your failure point and pushing past it. See this in racing many times where athlete X gets to that make it or break it point. What makes them continue on? Good fitness, well paced raced, or are they mentally prepared to handle the pain?

I dont do it often but I sometimes try to put myself in workouts that I simply will not be able to finish because they go to failure. The idea behind it is to mentally push myself past that threshold I may have thought was my limit.

The other day I rode with a friend who simply is a better cyclist. But I hung with him as long and best as I could. No point other then to find that pain level, embrace it and push beyond what I though I could do.

Anyone else?


2014-03-21 4:17 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: Mental Training Sessions (Failure)

Originally posted by bcagle25 Curious to know if any BT people out there employ this idea in their training. Yes most plans are based off the periodized model (Linear, conjugate, block, etc) or polarized model, and some just pull workouts together and string them in a way that gives them what they want. But when it comes to specific sessions does anyone do workouts til failure? I think one of the more under valued parts in training is mental training within a session. That is finding your failure point and pushing past it. See this in racing many times where athlete X gets to that make it or break it point. What makes them continue on? Good fitness, well paced raced, or are they mentally prepared to handle the pain? I dont do it often but I sometimes try to put myself in workouts that I simply will not be able to finish because they go to failure. The idea behind it is to mentally push myself past that threshold I may have thought was my limit. The other day I rode with a friend who simply is a better cyclist. But I hung with him as long and best as I could. No point other then to find that pain level, embrace it and push beyond what I though I could do. Anyone else?

I do this. I started riding with faster friends, and some weeks, I just hang on for dear life. I try to do track practice with someone faster than me too.

What I learned from my last race, though, is that my cumulative stress from a really awful week in my personal life caused my race performance to suffer in the final miles. 

I felt like my mental reserve of HTFU was totally spent with 2 miles left to go on  the run. 

I'm definitely going to focus a bit more on that as I prepare for my next race. I've got some ideas, but I'd love to here what others do. I know people that have done 20 miles treadmill runs with zero entertainment to build mental strength. 

2014-03-21 4:37 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: Mental Training Sessions (Failure)

Originally posted by bcagle25 Curious to know if any BT people out there employ this idea in their training. Yes most plans are based off the periodized model (Linear, conjugate, block, etc) or polarized model, and some just pull workouts together and string them in a way that gives them what they want. But when it comes to specific sessions does anyone do workouts til failure? I think one of the more under valued parts in training is mental training within a session. That is finding your failure point and pushing past it. See this in racing many times where athlete X gets to that make it or break it point. What makes them continue on? Good fitness, well paced raced, or are they mentally prepared to handle the pain? I dont do it often but I sometimes try to put myself in workouts that I simply will not be able to finish because they go to failure. The idea behind it is to mentally push myself past that threshold I may have thought was my limit. The other day I rode with a friend who simply is a better cyclist. But I hung with him as long and best as I could. No point other then to find that pain level, embrace it and push beyond what I though I could do. Anyone else?

I definitely dedicate sessions to training the mental aspect. There are specific times within a training cycle where I can afford to do it though.

A typical way I will do this is similar to you, where I run with a faster group and see how long I can hang on. The reason I dedicate specific times in a training cycle to do this is because sometimes I just can't hang on for the entire workout and, while it is a great reinforcement on why you don't go out too fast, you end up slooooooogggggging through the rest of the workout. 

There are a variety of other ways I train the mental aspect that aren't necessarily doing a workout until failure such as depletion runs, doing a workout with emphasis on positive self-talk, and tackling anything I see as a weakness. 

2014-03-21 9:51 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Mental Training Sessions (Failure)
It's not on purpose, but I think I gain mental toughness from training solo in really boring surroundings. Pretty much all my biking the past few years has been in an industrial park that's a 6 km loop past some factories. There's a little bit of "scenery" at the back--some trees and a small temple--but it's not a breathtaking ride! I always have a goal for each workout and each part of the workout, and since there's absolutely nothing to focus on (except, I guess self-preservation when the motorbikes mass during shift changes), it helps me get in the habit of staying completely focused in the moment. When I was a teenager, I mostly did my long runs solo on a really mind-bending route where you could pretty much see several miles ahead. That route and the industrial park now are also very windy, which adds to the challenge. I think this helps me focus on keeping a steady effort, listening to my body, and talking myself through workouts, rather than chatting with friends or looking at scenery. I don't think people should always train like that, but doing some workouts where you just have to focus fully on the workout and your body can help build mental toughness (or at least, you can talk about your workouts and make your competitors believe you are incredibly mentally tough.....not that I've ever done that or anything! )


Edited by Hot Runner 2014-03-21 9:53 PM
2014-03-22 1:36 AM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Subject: RE: Mental Training Sessions (Failure)
Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by bcagle25 Curious to know if any BT people out there employ this idea in their training. Yes most plans are based off the periodized model (Linear, conjugate, block, etc) or polarized model, and some just pull workouts together and string them in a way that gives them what they want. But when it comes to specific sessions does anyone do workouts til failure? I think one of the more under valued parts in training is mental training within a session. That is finding your failure point and pushing past it. See this in racing many times where athlete X gets to that make it or break it point. What makes them continue on? Good fitness, well paced raced, or are they mentally prepared to handle the pain? I dont do it often but I sometimes try to put myself in workouts that I simply will not be able to finish because they go to failure. The idea behind it is to mentally push myself past that threshold I may have thought was my limit. The other day I rode with a friend who simply is a better cyclist. But I hung with him as long and best as I could. No point other then to find that pain level, embrace it and push beyond what I though I could do. Anyone else?

I do this. I started riding with faster friends, and some weeks, I just hang on for dear life. I try to do track practice with someone faster than me too.

What I learned from my last race, though, is that my cumulative stress from a really awful week in my personal life caused my race performance to suffer in the final miles. 

I felt like my mental reserve of HTFU was totally spent with 2 miles left to go on  the run. 

I'm definitely going to focus a bit more on that as I prepare for my next race. I've got some ideas, but I'd love to here what others do. I know people that have done 20 miles treadmill runs with zero entertainment to build mental strength. 




I think you made a point lots of AG'ers need to understand

Training is a stress on the body. In order for the body to adapt to the training stresses (become more fit) the body needs to rest. However, stress outside of the actual training (lack of sleep, nutrition, work stress, mental stress, etc) does not promote an increase in fitness. It's going a bit off topic but sometimes knowing this goes a long way.
2014-03-22 9:30 AM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: Mental Training Sessions (Failure)

I think it's important to understand the individual's psychology a bit before prescribing a session that you know they will not be able to complete.  For some people, like you, it can increase mental toughness.  For others, it can do the opposite, and leave them feeling defeated and weaker mentally.

Overall, I agree with the concept of building suffering into training that is greater than athletes will experience on race day.  Exactly the best way to do this depends on the individual.  For some people, "breaking" them like you describe can be effective.  For others, I believe progressively overloading them mentally from week to week to build mental toughness the way we progressively overload them physically can be a better approach.

 



2014-03-22 12:46 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Mental Training Sessions (Failure)
Originally posted by TriMyBest

I think it's important to understand the individual's psychology a bit before prescribing a session that you know they will not be able to complete.  For some people, like you, it can increase mental toughness.  For others, it can do the opposite, and leave them feeling defeated and weaker mentally.

Overall, I agree with the concept of building suffering into training that is greater than athletes will experience on race day.  Exactly the best way to do this depends on the individual.  For some people, "breaking" them like you describe can be effective.  For others, I believe progressively overloading them mentally from week to week to build mental toughness the way we progressively overload them physically can be a better approach.

 




Good points and yes just like many other parts of the sport it is highly individual.

For myself I know where my mental weaknesses are so I can work on those parts specifically. For others it is easy to understand by simply talking to them, reading their feedback from workouts, or watching them perform in person.
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