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2014-04-04 9:41 AM

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Subject: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
I have tried to read up on how much the calorie intake should be per hour during a HIM.
But recommendations vary, at Hammer Nutrition there is one recommendation for about 100 gram, while another suggests 240g to 280g.
http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/perpetuem-solids-usage-ins...
http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/tips-for-a-successful-half...
I am planning to depend mostly on Hammer Perpeteum Solids supplemented with Hammer Gels. The first link suggests that 2-3 tablets of Perpeteum Solids should be enough, which would amount to 66-100g, while the other link suggests I should get at least 240g.

You guys have any advice?

I am 67kg, male, 41 years old.

1 week to my first HIM!


2014-04-04 2:24 PM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
I am 43, 5'9", 157lbs, race half with 300cal/hr, 1200-1400mg sodium/hr, depending on temps, fluid intake 1-2.5 24oz bottles/hr. Raced 11 half ironman races, 4:47-4:39 times, bike splits 2:35-2:24 depending on wind and topography.....if powermeter in use, usually IF.82-.85 with 170TSS or so.
Had good and not so good runs off that, obviously in relative terms.

Calorie intake per individual will greatly vary. Find baseline, than tweak for temps.....intensity of ride.....The hotter it gets, the less you can process, the more intense ride, the less you can process......
2014-04-04 2:39 PM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?

As a rule of thumb, an average person can only absorb 300 calories per hour. Everything else will just sit in your stomach for an extended amount of time. Hence, making you feel ill while running. The bike is more forgiving. And, well you can try to eat whilst swimming, but that a different sport all together.

Most gels will advise that you take one packet every 45-60 minutes. That's only 100 calories. You can certainly do okay with 100 calories every 30 minutes, but you really have to test it out yourself. Solids are much more forgiving. Once every hour works well for me, but I can't even drink a diluted sports drink without losing it all on the side of the road. It's just water, bars, and gel for me.

2014-04-04 3:01 PM
in reply to: vertseven

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
Originally posted by vertseven

As a rule of thumb, an average person can only absorb 300 calories per hour. Everything else will just sit in your stomach for an extended amount of time. Hence, making you feel ill while running. The bike is more forgiving. And, well you can try to eat whilst swimming, but that a different sport all together.

Most gels will advise that you take one packet every 45-60 minutes. That's only 100 calories. You can certainly do okay with 100 calories every 30 minutes, but you really have to test it out yourself. Solids are much more forgiving. Once every hour works well for me, but I can't even drink a diluted sports drink without losing it all on the side of the road. It's just water, bars, and gel for me.




Please do not spread wrong information. Your 300cal/hr assertion is grossly incorrect. QT2 Systems, their nutritionist team, PBN's Brian Shea do fueling plans for many pros and age groupers. A lot has been written on the subject and 300cal just happens to work for me. I have given my personal stats and by no means it was a scientific claim that it is a threshold that will work for everyone. One has to arrive at their own numbers based on trial and error.

What is further written by Infinit Nutrition staff is a very, very general rule, but no limit by any means, replacing half the calories burned per hour on the bike. How does one arrive at that, if you have a powermeter, it will record the KJ, it is safe and simple to assume that 1KJ=1cal, so record the race simulation at IF .80-.85, take an hourly average of KJ divide in half and you will have arrived at the baseline.

I am having more and more trouble seeing stuff written on public forums that is grossly misleading and inaccurate.

Please head over to ST, search out PBN, you will find Jordan Rapp's fueling race reports, many other age groupers as well. Numbers vary greatly and according to QT2 Systems Jesse Kropelnicki, "the fueling window arcticle", it is a highly trainable skill.

Endurance Nation has posted and written on the subject extensively. Endurance Corner, Gord Byrn's staff wrote on their site extensively as well. Please search out these reputable coaches while seeking your answers.
2014-04-04 3:37 PM
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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?

Originally posted by knuta99 I have tried to read up on how much the calorie intake should be per hour during a HIM. But recommendations vary, at Hammer Nutrition there is one recommendation for about 100 gram, while another suggests 240g to 280g. http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/perpetuem-solids-usage-ins... http://www.hammernutrition.com/knowledge/tips-for-a-successful-half... I am planning to depend mostly on Hammer Perpeteum Solids supplemented with Hammer Gels. The first link suggests that 2-3 tablets of Perpeteum Solids should be enough, which would amount to 66-100g, while the other link suggests I should get at least 240g. You guys have any advice? I am 67kg, male, 41 years old. 1 week to my first HIM!

Did you mix up "g" (grams) for "cal" (calories)?

I don't see the big difference with the links.  1st says 2-3 tablets for your weight (100 cal each), call it three which is 300 cal/hr.  The 2nd says 240-280 cal/hr.

I recently did a HIM and it was my 2nd (1st a long time ago).  I took a 80 cal gel in T2, and after 30' alternated eating about 2/3 of a power bar (~170cal) and taking a 80cal gel for about 250/hr. I was fine for the run leg.  Last time I had about 300c/hr and used Perp mix & gels and felt a bit bloated off the bike.  I'd personally would rather have some solids on the bike and use more gels on the run.

Didn't know HN had Perp Solids now, I'll have to check those out.



Edited by Donto 2014-04-04 3:38 PM
2014-04-04 4:07 PM
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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
A good rule of thumb is 4-6 calories/kg/hour on the bike (works out to 280-420 calories per hour for a 70 kg person)

On the run I aim for 2-3 calories/kg/hour because I/you cannot absorb as much on the run as on the bike (140-210 calories/hour for a 70 kg person)

These are good starting points. You need to work out for yourself what amount of calories and what form of calories you take in.

At 68 +/- kg I take in about 320 calories hour on the bike and about 140-80 (very loose estimate) on the run. (the run calories are much less important to me in a HIM than they are in a full).

I take in 100% of my calories in the form of sport drink. No solids at all.

Edited by wannabefaster 2014-04-04 4:11 PM


2014-04-04 8:34 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
Originally posted by wannabefaster

A good rule of thumb is 4-6 calories/kg/hour on the bike (works out to 280-420 calories per hour for a 70 kg person)

On the run I aim for 2-3 calories/kg/hour because I/you cannot absorb as much on the run as on the bike (140-210 calories/hour for a 70 kg person)

These are good starting points. You need to work out for yourself what amount of calories and what form of calories you take in.

At 68 +/- kg I take in about 320 calories hour on the bike and about 140-80 (very loose estimate) on the run. (the run calories are much less important to me in a HIM than they are in a full).

I take in 100% of my calories in the form of sport drink. No solids at all.


Thanks a lot for sharing, appreciate the formula!

Originally posted by Donto

I don't see the big difference with the links. 1st says 2-3 tablets for your weight (100 cal each), call it three which is 300 cal/hr. The 2nd says 240-280 cal/hr.

I recently did a HIM and it was my 2nd (1st a long time ago). I took a 80 cal gel in T2, and after 30' alternated eating about 2/3 of a power bar (~170cal) and taking a 80cal gel for about 250/hr. I was fine for the run leg. Last time I had about 300c/hr and used Perp mix & gels and felt a bit bloated off the bike. I'd personally would rather have some solids on the bike and use more gels on the run.

Didn't know HN had Perp Solids now, I'll have to check those out.




Thanks and yeah I did mess up gram and cal Appreciate your input! Just a clarification, one of the perp solid tablets is only 33 cal, so you need 3 per hour to get 100c, and 7 an hour to get 233c, which will be very difficult due to the consistence of the tablet and time it takes to chew one. Not to mention if you want to take enough to cover 300c or more. Anyways, maybe the solution would be to mix in some gels, that you can not expect to use the solids as the only source for calories.

Originally posted by atasic

I am 43, 5'9", 157lbs, race half with 300cal/hr, 1200-1400mg sodium/hr, depending on temps, fluid intake 1-2.5 24oz bottles/hr. Raced 11 half ironman races, 4:47-4:39 times, bike splits 2:35-2:24 depending on wind and topography.....if powermeter in use, usually IF.82-.85 with 170TSS or so.
Had good and not so good runs off that, obviously in relative terms.

Calorie intake per individual will greatly vary. Find baseline, than tweak for temps.....intensity of ride.....The hotter it gets, the less you can process, the more intense ride, the less you can process......


Thanks this helps a lot! Very good to see some actual experience on this.

Great input guys. It is always better to see some real life experience than theoretical write ups.
2014-04-05 5:10 PM
in reply to: atasic


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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
Something else needs to be stated: please practice your "planned" nutritional before your actual race event. The feedback provided will help you make any adjustments needed.
2014-04-05 11:11 PM
in reply to: Billyk

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
Originally posted by Billyk

Something else needs to be stated: please practice your "planned" nutritional before your actual race event. The feedback provided will help you make any adjustments needed.


Do that

Also plan to adjust. I've had my fastest 70.3 with only water on the run. Was on the verge for most of the run. Forcing down nutrition would have just come back up that day. My bike nutrition was normal for me and well rehearsed.
2014-04-05 11:49 PM
in reply to: magic

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
Originally posted by magic

Originally posted by Billyk

Something else needs to be stated: please practice your "planned" nutritional before your actual race event. The feedback provided will help you make any adjustments needed.


Do that

Also plan to adjust. I've had my fastest 70.3 with only water on the run. Was on the verge for most of the run. Forcing down nutrition would have just come back up that day. My bike nutrition was normal for me and well rehearsed.


Yeah, especially practice your nutrition if you are going to try Perpetuem. Perpetuem has been a nightmare for me and almost costs me a finish at my Ironman last year. Perpetuem tastes disgusting, in my opinion. I am trying Infinit...
2014-04-06 4:10 AM
in reply to: Lock_N_Load

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
Originally posted by Lock_N_Load

Originally posted by magic

Originally posted by Billyk

Something else needs to be stated: please practice your "planned" nutritional before your actual race event. The feedback provided will help you make any adjustments needed.


Do that

Also plan to adjust. I've had my fastest 70.3 with only water on the run. Was on the verge for most of the run. Forcing down nutrition would have just come back up that day. My bike nutrition was normal for me and well rehearsed.


Yeah, especially practice your nutrition if you are going to try Perpetuem. Perpetuem has been a nightmare for me and almost costs me a finish at my Ironman last year. Perpetuem tastes disgusting, in my opinion. I am trying Infinit...


Yeah noted, I have practiced with the Perp Solids, Anti-fatigue, Endurolytes and Hammer gels that I am planning to use. I have practiced with 3 perp solid/hour but now wonder if that is too little...but it is really not feasible to take more, so the option then would be to supplement with something else. Anyways agree that most Hammer products taste - uh - not good - but that's the price of them being natural I guess. I can't take any of the drinks because of the taste But happy with their tablets and pills.


2014-04-06 5:46 PM
in reply to: knuta99


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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
What drinks have you tried? It might be possible to create your own home brew if...well, you are willing to experiment.
2014-04-08 1:34 AM
in reply to: Billyk

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
Originally posted by Billyk

What drinks have you tried? It might be possible to create your own home brew if...well, you are willing to experiment.


Hi, I have tried a couple. Some from Hammer and also other brands, but discarded this because the race is in quite high temperatures 30-40 degrees Celsius, so I noticed the drinks last max 1 hour in the heat. Hence I started looking for non-drink options.
2014-04-08 1:58 AM
in reply to: knuta99

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Subject: RE: How much calories needed per hour for HIM?
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