Gear Questions
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2014-04-09 2:15 PM |
New user 121 Green Bay, WI | Subject: Gear Questions I've recently acquired my first Tri bike after riding strictly a road bike last year. It's a Cervelo P2 with FSA 50/34 Crank and Ultegra 12-25 Cassette. I've had it about a month and have been riding it on the trainer about 3 days a weeks. I just got it out on the road this week now that the weather warmed up and I seam to be riding on the Big chainring and smallest gear on the cassette a lot. I'm not terribly fast riding on average about 20 MPH. But I when going fastest I'm in my "last" gear. Also, on my last ride I didn't ride in the small chainring at all, but that could be in part because it's relatively flat where I live. I guess I have a a couple questions.... 1) If I want to add higher gears what would be your recommendation....change crank? change just the large chainring(can I even do that), or change the cassette. 2) Is it possible that I'm not riding at the appropriate cadence? I don't have a cadence sensor on this bike but on my roadbike(50/34 up front 11/25 cassette) I'm typically between 80-90 and as fast as 100 at times. I appreciate any advise for this rookie. Thanks Nussy |
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2014-04-09 2:24 PM in reply to: Nussy |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Are you sure about all this information? How do you know your cadence? By the smallest Cog you mean you are in the one on the far right? Do you know your crank length? On standard cranks spinning 80rpm in your biggest gear you should be a great deal faster than 20mph. |
2014-04-09 2:25 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: Gear Questions Cheapest and easiest would be to swap cassettes, but you're really only going to be able to go down to an 11 smallest cog. Switching to a standard crank is much more expensive (relative to a cassette swap) However, if the gearing on your roadie is 50/34, you should not notice any difference on a tri bike with the same size compact crankset Edited by ChrisM 2014-04-09 2:27 PM |
2014-04-09 2:43 PM in reply to: Nussy |
New user 180 Auburn, AL | Subject: RE: Gear Questions You might want to play around with a gear calculator, like Sheldon Brown's. http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/ Using some assumptions in a 50x11 combo (your road bike) you should be going 28.4 mph at 80 rpm. Swithching to a 50x12 (your P2) would drop you to 26.1. Based on those numbers it seems you would have plenty of gear on your P2......... |
2014-04-09 2:51 PM in reply to: Nussy |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Originally posted by Nussy I've recently acquired my first Tri bike after riding strictly a road bike last year. It's a Cervelo P2 with FSA 50/34 Crank and Ultegra 12-25 Cassette. I've had it about a month and have been riding it on the trainer about 3 days a weeks. I just got it out on the road this week now that the weather warmed up and I seam to be riding on the Big chainring and smallest gear on the cassette a lot. I'm not terribly fast riding on average about 20 MPH. But I when going fastest I'm in my "last" gear. Also, on my last ride I didn't ride in the small chainring at all, but that could be in part because it's relatively flat where I live. I guess I have a a couple questions.... 1) If I want to add higher gears what would be your recommendation....change crank? change just the large chainring(can I even do that), or change the cassette. 2) Is it possible that I'm not riding at the appropriate cadence? I don't have a cadence sensor on this bike but on my roadbike(50/34 up front 11/25 cassette) I'm typically between 80-90 and as fast as 100 at times. I appreciate any advise for this rookie. Thanks Nussy If the gears and speed you listed are correct your cadence is low. 50/12 at 60 rpm cadence will put you at 19.5 mph I know my cadence is always low in the beginning of the season. Get a couple more rides in and work on spinning. |
2014-04-09 2:51 PM in reply to: podemma |
553 St Catharines, Ontario | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Hmmm. If you are really turning your 50 front and 12 back at about 80 rpm then you are ripping up your local streets. Are you Lionel Sanders? pic.twitter.com/92jfnR8EO5 |
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2014-04-09 2:53 PM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 2098 Ontario Canada | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Something doesn't sound right You can use this calculator http://www.gear-calculator.com/#I have found it to be very close to accurate according to this with a 50/34 and a 10 speed 12/ 25 in that gear you should be doing around 29 Mph not anywhere near 20 assuming a std 85 to 90 cadence.. A cassette change is not going to do much for you, going to a Std sprocket on the front is really the only way you can make a large change. I am assuming that you are using 700CM wheels and not 650's is there any chance that your roady is on 700cm wheels and the tri bike is on 650's that could make quit a difference. Even with 650's you should be in the 26/27 mph range. Edited by RRH_88 2014-04-09 2:58 PM |
2014-04-09 3:17 PM in reply to: Nussy |
1660 | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Sounds like you have a compact crank with a 50-34.
This will slightly lower the top speed gear by about 6%. (This article has a good explanation of compact vs standard cranks.)
Still, you should be way over 20mph if you're maxxing out a compact crank. Sounds like you don't have your rpm's high enough - I'd get those up to 90 minimum before you start talking about swapping out your crankset for bigger gears.
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2014-04-09 3:25 PM in reply to: Nussy |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Originally posted by Nussy I've recently acquired my first Tri bike after riding strictly a road bike last year. It's a Cervelo P2 with FSA 50/34 Crank and Ultegra 12-25 Cassette. I've had it about a month and have been riding it on the trainer about 3 days a weeks. I just got it out on the road this week now that the weather warmed up and I seam to be riding on the Big chainring and smallest gear on the cassette a lot. I'm not terribly fast riding on average about 20 MPH. But I when going fastest I'm in my "last" gear. Also, on my last ride I didn't ride in the small chainring at all, but that could be in part because it's relatively flat where I live. I guess I have a a couple questions.... 1) If I want to add higher gears what would be your recommendation....change crank? change just the large chainring(can I even do that), or change the cassette. 2) Is it possible that I'm not riding at the appropriate cadence? I don't have a cadence sensor on this bike but on my roadbike(50/34 up front 11/25 cassette) I'm typically between 80-90 and as fast as 100 at times. I appreciate any advise for this rookie. Thanks Nussy Checking on the terminology here, seem to understand chainring size, but on the cassette (the cogs), by "smallest gear" do you mean the lowest? That would be the biggest cog and closest to the wheel. The "last" being ridden at your "fastest" would be the smallest cog or farthest away from the wheel. I think you really want to know how fast you're spinning there, and also want to know what kind of situations are putting you into the fastest few gears. If you need to sprint and/or need a hill to use them, then it's likely not an issue. Being able to spin faster for peaks such as this would be more beneficial. 100 is a quick average, but it's really not that fast for such peaks. Since most of your riding is being done at the opposite end of the cassette, this would seem to be the case, but think you should check to be sure. I live a few hours south of you and have been along the area between us before. Wisconsin by Lake Michigan is rather flat, but if you ever venture outside of the immediate area it can become quite hilly. Not necessarily Colorado length grades, but you can still see a couple miles in places and have some very steep grades at times. Both farther into Wisconsin and in the UP of Michigan. So check on the above things first, be sure of what's going on before starting to make changes. |
2014-04-09 3:47 PM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: Gear Questions Ok...assuming you are actually running out of gears at some point, there are some things you can do. Change to a cassette that has an 11 tooth cog. That will get you about 9% more top end speed which is quite a big jump. At 85 rpms (which I would hardly consider spinning out), you could hit 30.6 mph. At 105 rpms (which could be considered spinning out), you could hit 37.8 mph. If you live in a flat area, it would take a serious effort and a big tailwind for most people to hit that speed on the flats. And during training, rarely is it even necessary to go that fast. Cost of a new cassette is generally around $60-$80 You could also swap out your chain rings. But given you already have a 50/34, you can't only change the big chain ring, you would have to change both. The 16t gap between the big and small chain ring is the most you want to go to have reliable shifting. So you could go to a 52t big ring, but you would also need to go to at least a 36t small ring. The difference between 50/12 and 52/12 is about 4% and at 85 rpms, you could hit 29.2 mph. At 105 rpms, you could hit 36 mph. Cost for both chain rings would likely be around $90-$110. Of course if you combined both solutions, you could end up with a 52/11 top end gear, which would get you 31.8 mph at 85 rpms and 39.3 mph at 105 rpms. Total cost would be around $150-200 Lastly, you could swap your whole crank and go to standard 53/39 chain rings. Cost would be around $150-250. A 53/12 would get you up to 36.7 mph and 53/11 would get you 40.1 mph if you also swapped the cassette as well. All that being said...for training, and especially triathlon racing, rarely do AGers (unless you're FOP) need to be concerned with top end gearing. 50/12 is plenty of gear for those purposes as you reach a point where tucking and coasting likely is more beneficial. Now if you were a bike racer, and needed to sprint to the finish or bridge a gap on a downhill...then yes...top end gearing becomes a little more important. Edited by Jason N 2014-04-09 3:49 PM |
2014-04-10 5:37 AM in reply to: Nussy |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: Gear Questions 50/12 at 90rpm should give you just about 30mph and at 100rpm you're gaining another 4mph. There's simply no way to ride 20mph at that cadence and with that gearing. However, 60rpm would give you almost exactly 20mph. I bet your cadence is much lower than you think it is. For reference, a 50/11 is a slightly taller gear than a 53/12, so you could always go to a 11-23 cassette. |
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2014-04-10 8:53 AM in reply to: Nussy |
Veteran 740 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Here's a quote from the linked interview with Kevin Metcalfe after he set the new national 40k TT record for M50-54. He rode on a compact crank with an 11x23 cassette for a time of 49:29, an average speed of a little over 30-mph. Kevin: I think that the vast majority of people don’t need a standard crank and especially not a 54 or 55 tooth chain ring. The fact that I was able to average 30 mph and except for about 10 seconds in my 12, never used anything bigger than a 50x13 tells me that you don’t need a huge gear to go fast. There are a lot of variables, but a 50x11 is a bigger gear than Eddy Merckx ever had. Of course, on the other hand if you live in Kansas you probably don’t need a compact either. I just think that a lot of people never learn to pedal properly. I’m not saying that somebody should do a time trial or triathlon a 100+ rpm, but if a rider can’t pedal for relatively short (1 minute or so) durations at 100 or 110, they need to work on their pedaling, not buy a bigger chain ring. BTW, in that vein racing on the track does wonders for your abilities as a cyclist. http://www.slowtwitch.com/Interview/Getting_faster_with_age_3693.ht... So he's averaging 30-mph on a compact, mostly using 50x13. You're averaging 20-mph iusing a 50-12? Sounds to me like a cadence/pedaling issue not an equipment issue. |
2014-04-10 10:08 AM in reply to: g_shotts |
New user 121 Green Bay, WI | Subject: RE: Gear Questions You guys are awesome. Thank you all for all the responses. I bought the bike used so I was really just looking at the standard specs. I know up front is definitely 50/34. I assumed the cassette was stock but I will take a closer look. I'm wondering if the previous owner might have changed the cassette previously as he used it for time trial and not triathlons. I should have more clear. Normal riding no issues with the gearing but if I get slightly downwind or downhill I often get up over 30 and have trouble with my cadence keeping up so I was thinking I may want to change something. My roadie has an 11 tooth cog and I do notice a difference. Maybe i can just swap rear wheels to see if I notice much difference. Lastly It's definitely possible it's a low cadence issue. My cadence sensor is on my roadie and I've only been using it for a few months. Maybe I'll move it over to double check everything on the new bike now that I can ride outside. Thank you all for the responses and ideas!!! |
2014-04-10 11:20 AM in reply to: Nussy |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Gear Questions Originally posted by Nussy You guys are awesome. Thank you all for all the responses. I bought the bike used so I was really just looking at the standard specs. I know up front is definitely 50/34. I assumed the cassette was stock but I will take a closer look. I'm wondering if the previous owner might have changed the cassette previously as he used it for time trial and not triathlons. I should have more clear. Normal riding no issues with the gearing but if I get slightly downwind or downhill I often get up over 30 and have trouble with my cadence keeping up so I was thinking I may want to change something. My roadie has an 11 tooth cog and I do notice a difference. Maybe i can just swap rear wheels to see if I notice much difference. Lastly It's definitely possible it's a low cadence issue. My cadence sensor is on my roadie and I've only been using it for a few months. Maybe I'll move it over to double check everything on the new bike now that I can ride outside. Thank you all for the responses and ideas!!! You are not spinning out at 30 mph. Work on your cadence, you should be able to spin up at 100 rpm at least for short distances. Some people spin at 100 rpm all day long. Switch your cadence sensor over and see what your doing. Smallest gear on cassettes are typically an 11 or 12, sometimes a 13. |
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