General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Your opinion about flexible training plans? Rss Feed  
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2014-04-15 12:50 PM

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Subject: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
I am a busy mom of three kids, have other hobbies, serve on a few boards/committees, and need some flexibility in my IM training this year. I have done lots of Olympic distances and did my first HIM last year with little issues. I loved the distance and the training but I was very flexible in my training. For instance, I would lay all of the workouts out each week and fit them in when I could, sometimes in no particular order, but instead squeezing in what I could anywhere I could. I realize training plans are written up specifically for a reason, but this does not always work with me since two of my girls play competitive softball (every Fri-Sun from April-July) and then fall sports as well. I have my weekends free for the BULK of my heavy training for IMFL but until them I am moving things around a lot. What is your take on this? Bad, good, ugly? Has anyone had to do this before? I ALWAYS get 100% of the workouts in, but just not always when the plan says! Some days I run before I bike and swim at night after that, etc.

I may not always be able to do my long run the day after my longest bike each week. I will still be biking the day before but it may end up being a middle distance ride on Wed, long run of 15 plus miles on Thursday, and then my long bike followed by a short run on Saturday. Sundays are typically my day off or an EASY swim due to church, family, games, etc.

I just want to be sure I am not making a terrible mistake. Wanted to hire a coach but not sure they could deal with my schedule!

Thanks!



Edited by midwesttrimom 2014-04-15 12:56 PM


2014-04-15 1:41 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?

If you are getting in all of your workouts I think you are fine.
When I was coached for one of my IMs, he would load each workout into Training Peaks and let me re-arrange them to my heart's content based on my schedule. There was never, ever an issue as long a I completed them within the week. Now I'm sure if I would have bunched up 5 workouts in one day he would have said something, but I routinely doubled up a few sessions to take a night off, or put a long run in the middle of the week, or what not.

2014-04-15 1:55 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
I agree with Lisa on this...you're fine. The main point is that you're getting your workout in, and you doing it while balancing a busy family life. Congrats! That's not easy to do.

2014-04-15 3:00 PM
in reply to: LarchmontTri

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Good to know. I was wondering what a coach would think of my antics. I spoke to one coach and he mentioned that I would need ALL day on Saturday completely free and that just isn't an option in my life. I would be divorced. My kids are 100% on board and so proud that I am doing this but I also promised I would not let it take away from their sports' seasons (within reason) and we'd still do fun things all summer like usual. I stay home and will until my 4 year old goes to kindergarten so making the most of these last couple of years! That being said, there are never any lunch break runs or swims so everything is done early in the AM or at night unless I can beg my parents to help out! The YMCA is a great resource, too!
Sometimes I do more than I should in one day...(i.e. 6-7 miles of speed work at the track and a long bike ride but that is RARE and I will not do that once my rides are over 3 hours). I am so used to cramming it all on so hoping, in the long run, that helps me succeed as an "Ironman."

Thanks.
2014-04-15 3:01 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?

While there is some importance and reasoning into the scheduling of workouts, getting the workouts in is more important than when you get them in.

Here is what I had to say to someone I'm coaching through their first IM:

You'll notice that I have prescribed 12 workouts per week (4 swim, 4 bike, 4 run).  First thing you'll notice is that I'm not telling you what specific day to do what.  I don't know your schedule so I'll leave it up to you what days you'll schedule what.  I realize that getting in 12 workouts may sometimes be difficult (if not impossible) during some weeks.  You'll see I color coded workouts in green or yellow.  The yellow workouts are the workouts you can skip if you have to skip one.  Try your best to avoid bike/run two-a-days if you can.  No biggie if you can't though.  Try to separate your long run from your long bike by at least two days if possible.  If you have to do your long workouts on the weekend because it's easier on your life then please do so.  If you do that, try to run on Saturday and bike on Sunday.

2014-04-15 3:05 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?

Originally posted by midwesttrimom I spoke to one coach and he mentioned that I would need ALL day on Saturday completely free and that just isn't an option in my life.

I hope you didn't hire this chucklehead.  A coach has to be flexible to the athletes, not the other way around.



2014-04-15 4:17 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

While there is some importance and reasoning into the scheduling of workouts, getting the workouts in is more important than when you get them in.

Here is what I had to say to someone I'm coaching through their first IM:

You'll notice that I have prescribed 12 workouts per week (4 swim, 4 bike, 4 run).  First thing you'll notice is that I'm not telling you what specific day to do what.  I don't know your schedule so I'll leave it up to you what days you'll schedule what.  I realize that getting in 12 workouts may sometimes be difficult (if not impossible) during some weeks.  You'll see I color coded workouts in green or yellow.  The yellow workouts are the workouts you can skip if you have to skip one.  Try your best to avoid bike/run two-a-days if you can.  No biggie if you can't though.  Try to separate your long run from your long bike by at least two days if possible.  If you have to do your long workouts on the weekend because it's easier on your life then please do so.  If you do that, try to run on Saturday and bike on Sunday.




Good information. That is SO CRAZY because I was under the impression that I always HAD to run long the day immediately following my long bike ride. I am doing what you say to do already and feel like I am having great success so I was a little worried that I had it all wrong. I will most likely do my long bike ride on Wed or Thurs and my long run on Saturday or vice versa every week. I may go every other switching them out just for a change of pace! When you said try not to double up on bike/run two-a-days did you mean BRICKS twice in one day or biking and running in the same day. Today I did my track speed workout and then biked for 2 hours and I struggled a bit with nutrition. Felt light headed. A normal run would have been okay I think but speed work is a beast of it's own. I typically Swim and Run on the same days and bike and lift weights on the other days...

Thank you so much!
2014-04-15 4:50 PM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?

I wanted her to avoid biking and running on the same day (either as bricks or "separate" workouts) if feasible.  Obviously with 4 bikes and 4 runs per week it's impossible to not have at least one bike+run day but I didn't want her to do it 3x per week because I'd prefer better quality and fresher leg workouts as much as possible.  I gave her the choice of doing the one bike+run day as a brick or separated as her schedule allowed.  I don't like bricks unless done for time crunched reasons.

I think she's been doing something like:

M: run, swim

T: bike, swim

W: run, swim

Th: long run

F: bike, swim

Sat: bike, run

Sun: long bike

2014-04-16 2:22 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

I wanted her to avoid biking and running on the same day (either as bricks or "separate" workouts) if feasible.  Obviously with 4 bikes and 4 runs per week it's impossible to not have at least one bike+run day but I didn't want her to do it 3x per week because I'd prefer better quality and fresher leg workouts as much as possible.  I gave her the choice of doing the one bike+run day as a brick or separated as her schedule allowed.  I don't like bricks unless done for time crunched reasons.

I think she's been doing something like:

M: run, swim

T: bike, swim

W: run, swim

Th: long run

F: bike, swim

Sat: bike, run

Sun: long bike




Just want to ask with the above sched no 1 day rest per week?!
2014-04-16 6:32 AM
in reply to: strykergt

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
my coach has me on a 7 day a week schedule, but 3 of those days are swim only - so they are hard, but not as stressful - I also do a long run only day and then my other days are bike, with a short transition run - either on the trainer (during the week) or outside (and longer) on the weekend - that may change (and i'm sure it will) as Chattanooga gets closer
2014-04-16 6:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by midwesttrimom

Good to know. I was wondering what a coach would think of my antics. I spoke to one coach and he mentioned that I would need ALL day on Saturday completely free and that just isn't an option in my life.


One of the biggest reasons to hire a coach is so that they can work a training schedule around your other commitments - any coach who makes a blanket statement has a very poor grasp on how a coaching relationship should work.

If you are paying for a coach, you should be able to say, here's my schedule for the next week - fit my training around that and then, when something changes, the coach provides ways for you to work around the changes.

Shane

Edited by gsmacleod 2014-04-16 6:40 AM


2014-04-16 6:40 AM
in reply to: strykergt

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by strykergt

Just want to ask with the above sched no 1 day rest per week?!


Rest days aren't required on a weekly basis for many athletes, assuming the training load is well thought out (mainly alternating easy days and hard days).

In the example above, the long bike on Sunday would likely be a hard day (based on volume and maybe some intensity) so the Monday run and swim would be easier efforts which would set Tuesday up for a harder day (bike and/or swim). Then Wednesday would be again an easier day with Thursday's long run being a harder effort. If that was done in the morning (just guessing) with the rest of the day off, then Friday could have a harder effort with more 24 hours between workouts and Saturday being an easier day before Sunday's long ride again.

Shane
2014-04-16 8:33 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by strykergt Just want to ask with the above sched no 1 day rest per week?!
Rest days aren't required on a weekly basis for many athletes, assuming the training load is well thought out (mainly alternating easy days and hard days). In the example above, the long bike on Sunday would likely be a hard day (based on volume and maybe some intensity) so the Monday run and swim would be easier efforts which would set Tuesday up for a harder day (bike and/or swim). Then Wednesday would be again an easier day with Thursday's long run being a harder effort. If that was done in the morning (just guessing) with the rest of the day off, then Friday could have a harder effort with more 24 hours between workouts and Saturday being an easier day before Sunday's long ride again. Shane

Shane pretty much answered your question for me.

The Monday workouts are easy recovery workouts.  Then it does sort of alternate with harder workouts followed by what I would call medium workouts.

2014-04-16 10:03 AM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
i have work with very busy age group from full time mom to doctor on call with no predictable schedule.

what i came up with his a series of workout.

Exemple, 12 sessions/week.
-4 Red session (high priority)
-6 Yellow session (second level priority)
-2 green session (optional session)

This athlete had to take the sessions and put them where ever they could during the week making sure to get all the Red one done, then yellow, and green if time allowed. On top of that, it was RECOMMENDED to try to have the red session as far apart to each other as possible so they could recover for those key sessions. it was a fun system and work very well for someone on call.

it sure became a fun game and the very important part is the communication and knowing what was done during the week etc.

Ask your coach/perhaps you can come up with a flexible system that would work with your caotic schedule.
2014-04-16 11:45 AM
in reply to: jonnyo

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?

I agree with everyone else. I have NEVER done my long run the day after my long bike and I have completed IMFL 6 times. Don't sweat it.  You need to make this fit YOUR life and that is one BIG reason I run long on saturday and bike long on sunday. It fits my life.  My schedule is very unpredictable at times and I flip things around all the time.  ALSO the literature in the sports medicine community (I am a sports doc) supports that the cardiovascular benefits of 2 shorter workouts vs one workout of the same length are equal.  Now as an athlete I think there is great benefit to 100 mile rides and long runs from a practicing nutrition standpoint, a mental standpoint and a teaching your body to handle fatigue standpoint but once again you gotta do what you gotta do to fit this into your life. 

2014-04-16 2:11 PM
in reply to: jonnyo

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by jonnyo

i have work with very busy age group from full time mom to doctor on call with no predictable schedule.

what i came up with his a series of workout.

Exemple, 12 sessions/week.
-4 Red session (high priority)
-6 Yellow session (second level priority)
-2 green session (optional session)

This athlete had to take the sessions and put them where ever they could during the week making sure to get all the Red one done, then yellow, and green if time allowed. On top of that, it was RECOMMENDED to try to have the red session as far apart to each other as possible so they could recover for those key sessions. it was a fun system and work very well for someone on call.

it sure became a fun game and the very important part is the communication and knowing what was done during the week etc.

Ask your coach/perhaps you can come up with a flexible system that would work with your caotic schedule.


I love this. Maybe I need to hire you as a coach. I am serious. Right now I am just not sure I need a coach as I have been doing well and not sure about budget, like I said. Had to convince my husband of this year's race and I hope there will be more in the future. Thanks!


2014-04-16 2:17 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Originally posted by strykergt

Just want to ask with the above sched no 1 day rest per week?!


Rest days aren't required on a weekly basis for many athletes, assuming the training load is well thought out (mainly alternating easy days and hard days).

In the example above, the long bike on Sunday would likely be a hard day (based on volume and maybe some intensity) so the Monday run and swim would be easier efforts which would set Tuesday up for a harder day (bike and/or swim). Then Wednesday would be again an easier day with Thursday's long run being a harder effort. If that was done in the morning (just guessing) with the rest of the day off, then Friday could have a harder effort with more 24 hours between workouts and Saturday being an easier day before Sunday's long ride again.

Shane


Right now I RARELY take a rest day, but Sundays are the day I generally "make-up" a workout I missed but I always do it EASILY. I typically run 5-6 miles easy with a few speed bursts at the end, bike for 1-2 hours moderately with possibly a few speed bursts, or do a longer, slower swim without the speed. This has worked me in that IF my kids have activities or it's Easter Sunday or there's something going on at church, socially, etc. I can miss that day. Those would be the yellow workouts that others have mentioned. I REALLY, REALLY like what all of you have said and it has actually changed my entire view of how I train and what I am doing. This sounds so much like ME! I do my long runs on Thurs because I stay home with my kids and during the summer they don't wake up until 9 or 10. So, I can run from 5:20-8:20 and still get in 18-21 miles and be DONE. Then, my long bike is either Friday AM (same situation) or Saturday AM depending on our tournament schedule. We own our own business so even though I stay home I have to be flexible because my husband may be working until 8/9 PM or I help him out occasionally. Thank you all so much for your help. If any of you do coach I would love your information sent to me. I am not sure where I am going from here but having someone help me online may be just the right thing for me. I want to love this journey and it's not all about race day. I live for triathlon and I don't want my first IM to be my last (and it's not just my decision with a family of 5). I want to be a good mom, wife, friend, daughter, etc. in the midst of it all! And, I hate missing my kids games. Too important to me! Love watching. I may take my bike trainer to a tournament and really embarrass my family. My kids love it!
2014-06-27 3:14 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

While there is some importance and reasoning into the scheduling of workouts, getting the workouts in is more important than when you get them in.

Here is what I had to say to someone I'm coaching through their first IM:

You'll notice that I have prescribed 12 workouts per week (4 swim, 4 bike, 4 run).  First thing you'll notice is that I'm not telling you what specific day to do what.  I don't know your schedule so I'll leave it up to you what days you'll schedule what.  I realize that getting in 12 workouts may sometimes be difficult (if not impossible) during some weeks.  You'll see I color coded workouts in green or yellow.  The yellow workouts are the workouts you can skip if you have to skip one.  Try your best to avoid bike/run two-a-days if you can.  No biggie if you can't though.  Try to separate your long run from your long bike by at least two days if possible.  If you have to do your long workouts on the weekend because it's easier on your life then please do so.  If you do that, try to run on Saturday and bike on Sunday.




Do you actually take on clients via internet? I am looking for a more flexible plan. I am struggling and hovering between the Be Iron Fit Advanced plan (lots of bricks!!) and Fitzgerald's lower levels plans. I go back and forth. Doing a HIM on July 27 so hate to go into that being ill-prepared but also
don't want to burn out. Struggling. I feel like things are moving along quite well but I am losing a lot of speed (to be expected but still tough to swallow). Bike rides have been slower, but GREAT. I recovery quickly, have not struggled with fueling, and feel like I could hop off and run for awhile so far. Mind you, my first 3:30 ride is tomorrow. Just starting to get longer. I don't necessarily need a coach per say, but need a plan that better fits into what
I am trying to accomplish I think. What do you thin of these cookie cutter plans and am I worrying for nothing? Just don't want to get to the start and feel like I should have done something differently (like hired a coach). Hate to spend too much $$ on my first full IM. Thanks.
2014-06-28 9:00 AM
in reply to: midwesttrimom

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?

My clients are people that I know (family and friends) and I do it for free for them.  I have a fair amount of experience doing long course and have made every mistake imaginable over the years so I think I can dispense some wisdom.  I also think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to juggle a career, family and racing/training.  So when someone reaches out to me for training advice I do what I can.

Your race is 4 weeks away so there's not a lot that can be done at this stage.  I would just stay the course and see how it shakes out and readjust things for your next race or next season.

I don't have a problem with cookie cutter plans if used as a template and customized toward oneself.  Tri coaching is not the rocket science that some think it is.  I'm sure you've noticed things you like about the two plans you have been using.  I'm sure there are things you don't like.  Find the workouts that you like and feel benefit you and tweak them to fit your schedule and ability.  Not everyone is the same so the cookie cutter plans can very effectively be molded to the individual.  That's what coaches do.  Each coach has their training philosophy in their head and have a basic cookie cutter template from which they start from.  Through conversations with the client and some trial and error work they customize and tailor it to each client.

2014-06-29 7:29 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Your opinion about flexible training plans?
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

My clients are people that I know (family and friends) and I do it for free for them.  I have a fair amount of experience doing long course and have made every mistake imaginable over the years so I think I can dispense some wisdom.  I also think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to juggle a career, family and racing/training.  So when someone reaches out to me for training advice I do what I can.

Your race is 4 weeks away so there's not a lot that can be done at this stage.  I would just stay the course and see how it shakes out and readjust things for your next race or next season.

I don't have a problem with cookie cutter plans if used as a template and customized toward oneself.  Tri coaching is not the rocket science that some think it is.  I'm sure you've noticed things you like about the two plans you have been using.  I'm sure there are things you don't like.  Find the workouts that you like and feel benefit you and tweak them to fit your schedule and ability.  Not everyone is the same so the cookie cutter plans can very effectively be molded to the individual.  That's what coaches do.  Each coach has their training philosophy in their head and have a basic cookie cutter template from which they start from.  Through conversations with the client and some trial and error work they customize and tailor it to each client.




Actually, the HIM is 4 weeks away so I am not really worried about that. I will be slow, but I know I have plenty of training in and will do fine. I am thinking more for IMFL in November. I am 18 weeks out from that race. Appreciate your feedback. I think I am probably fine, but this is such a long process I find myself second guessing something every step of the way!! I am adding more biking based on conversations on this site, but as I do that my running gets tougher and less enjoyable. So, guess you just have to plug away and hope for the best. Perspective is so important. ) Supposed to be fun. I tell my kids this with their sports every day, so you would think I could grasp it myself. My biggest fear is failure- especially in that open water swim in the ocean. If you threw me on an IM course today I think I could finish, but ocean swimming with waves is a whole different animal to me. Yes, I have done it to myself!! I may ask you some questions along the way if that is okay. Thanks!
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