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2014-10-24 10:51 AM
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Subject: Tunnel Vision during swim...
In my masters team we have "Fast Friday" where the last 15 minutes are spent racing off the block. Today we were doing 100's and I went out really hard. On the third lap I developed tunnel vision and felt like I was about to black out. I quit after 75 yrds and climbed out.

I used to have this experience when running the 1/2 mile in high school track. When I pushed too hard during a race I would get tunnel vision which got worse unless I slowed the pace. I never actually passed out, but I always backed off slightly when it happened. I've since met people that had the same experience while racing the 1/2 mile, so I know it's not just me.

I've never had it happen in swimming before and it has me a little concerned. Blacking out while swimming would be a very bad thing! I know my heart is fine (I had a stress test with echo cardiogram last fall), and I feel fine now. I think I was just too anaerobic for too long for my fitness level.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Scott I.

Edited by EchoLkScott 2014-10-24 11:06 AM


2014-10-24 6:12 PM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: Tunnel Vision during swim...

I've never experienced anything like that Scott. Sounds like you were pushing it too hard, but maybe best to check with a sports doc.  Any chance it was a nutrition issue, i.e., not enough glycogen? 

2014-10-24 8:27 PM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: Tunnel Vision during swim...

Originally posted by EchoLkScott

In my masters team we have "Fast Friday" where the last 15 minutes are spent racing off the block. Today we were doing 100's and I went out really hard. On the third lap I developed tunnel vision and felt like I was about to black out. I quit after 75 yrds and climbed out.

I used to have this experience when running the 1/2 mile in high school track. When I pushed too hard during a race I would get tunnel vision which got worse unless I slowed the pace. I never actually passed out, but I always backed off slightly when it happened. I've since met people that had the same experience while racing the 1/2 mile, so I know it's not just me.

I've never had it happen in swimming before and it has me a little concerned. Blacking out while swimming would be a very bad thing! I know my heart is fine (I had a stress test with echo cardiogram last fall), and I feel fine now. I think I was just too anaerobic for too long for my fitness level.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks! Scott I.

Hey Scott,

Couple questions than an observation/comment.

You said this was at the end of the workout.  How long was the workout and what was the workout like?  What I mean is, was it long slow aerobic sets or was it fast anaerobic sets?  How much rest?  Next question, did you experience this on the first "race" 100 or had you done a couple already?  If more than one, how much rest between repeats?  When you stopped, how long did it take "the tunnel" to go away?  Final question, when did you last eat before the workout and what did you eat?  A snack or a meal?

I am not a doctor, however I do have a degree in Biology, so take this with the appropriate grain of salt.

One of two things likely caused the "tunnel effect."  Either you were out of oxygen or you were out of gas.  It's nearly impossible to push through lack of oxygen so my vote is nutrition.

I suspect you "hit the wall" because you had insufficient nutrition for the workout.

A quick basic lesson on biology.  You brain uses EXCLUSIVELY glucose as fuel.  That's it.  Glucose or nothing and it uses a surprising large amount of it.  The brain does not have glycogen stores like the muscles in the body so it relies on the liver to provide glucose in the bloodstream.  It is a good system unless you do something to "upset the apple cart."

You had been in the pool working out for some period of time.  If you were in an organized workout I can pretty safely say you were likely anaerobic for a considerable period of time - using up your glycogen stores and also stimulating the liver to dump more glucose into the blood stream.  Remember that glycogen stores can only be utilized by the muscle in which the glycogen is stored.  An interesting by-product of exercise is that insulin become mores efficient at transporting glucose into the muscles.  That further reduces the overall blood glucose level.  If you were running, you would have been using the large muscles in your lower body - the glutes, hamstrings and quads.  When you started running out of gas, you would have "hit the wall" and your legs would have clearly told you something was wrong.  But you weren't running, you were swimming.  After your legs, the brain has the next highest demand for glucose.  Higher than you arms because you arms have glycogen stores available.  The muscles in your back, chest, and core were not weight bearing so they had relatively low energy requirements, plus they also had large reserves of glycogen available relative to the amount of work they needed to do.   I think you probably got ahead of what your liver could provide and effectively "ran out of gas."

The good news is that with additional training, you will raise the level where this occurs.  The quick fix when it happens is to back off the pace a bit or take a longer rest period between zone 5 efforts.  Another suggestion is, if you know you are going to be in the water for 90 minutes or more, eat a couple hundred calories half an hour before the workout.

Hope that helps.

2014-10-25 12:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Tunnel Vision during swim...
Thanks Scott,

I suspect you analysis is correct. The truth is, my swim fitness is not very good yet. I heard "give your maximum effort" and I went out at my 50 yard sprint pace. I knew I was pushing too hard after the second turn, but I continued to push thinking "it's only another 50 yards". After that, things went south very quickly.

It was the end of a 1hr 15min workout. I had worked hard. A lot of it was anaerobic (at least for me) and I was already spent. I should have paced myself better. The coach came up to me later and said "you aren't expected to compete with these other swimmers - you are early in this journey". I'm just a little too competitive for my own good. This team is very impressive - two former Olympic medalists, several Olympic alternates, most of the team competed at the collegiate level. I'm one of a handful that that was never on a swim team. I can't do 100 yrds in under 1 minute like several of the team members. I'm lucky to hit 1:35.I thought I could push though it with just will power. I went out at a 1:15 pace and it just wasn't going to happen!

I'm mostly embarrassed at this point. I'll try to eat a little better in the morning, pace myself more appropriately, and remember I'm 56 years old.

Thanks!
Scott I.


Edit. I've been sitting here watching the news about the shooting at Pilchuck-Marysville high school. With that perspective, I feel really silly about my relatively minor concerns. Please pray for the victims of this tragedy. This school is only 25 miles north of me. I ride my bicycle within a few miles of this high school on a regular basis.

Edited by EchoLkScott 2014-10-25 1:03 AM
2014-10-25 6:48 AM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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10

Upstate, New York
Subject: RE: Tunnel Vision during swim...
I agree with the "biology" viewpoint. We often forget that swimming requires the same guidelines for refueling as any other sport. While my swim training is rarely as long as many of you, I have learned to keep a drink bottle with at a simple electrolyte/glucose mix at the end of my lane to avoid similar issues. And this from a registered dietitian who still had to learn the hard way! :-)
BTW, I have quietly been lurking here lately as my tri training has been somewhat quiet but I've been focused more on the running for a few Fall Halves. Learning so much from all of you - especially confidence to keep getting out there.
2014-10-26 3:29 PM
in reply to: mknoonan06

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Spencer, New York
Subject: The power of determination
Last weekend I went to hear a talk by Kathrine Switzer, the courageous & determined woman who opened up the marathon to women athletes. As inspiring as she is, even more inspiring is a woman from my tri club that I ride-shared with. A marathoner, transcontinental cyclist and triathlete training for a half-iron, she suffered a severe stroke 5 years ago at the age of 42. I had actually met her briefly a year and a half ago at a club mini-sprint, in which she was riding a special recumbent bicycle. Now she is back on a standard bike, and in the spring completed a 10k (in almost 4 hours!) Every step for her takes conscious awareness and control of each of the muscles in her leg. foot, knee, hip. Her goal: the half ironman she was training for.
Here she is discussing the power of determination in a recent TED talk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq_D1CiGC1M
I quote her:" Determination is nothing less than a knock-down, drag-out, teeth-gnashing, finger-clawing, all out fight to resolve and never give up. Determination is patience plus resolve."
I believe in her eventual success. What an inspiration!


2014-10-26 9:23 PM
in reply to: ok2try

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Subject: RE: Still hanging in
Hey everyone. Hope you had a great weekend.

We're in full on Fall weather here in the North, so the outdoor training is starting to get more difficult. I managed a decent run on Saturday and a 1 hour 40 minute trainer ride in this morning while watching the Seahawks. Still working my way back, but I'm to the point now that I can pretty much train without pain.

Have a great week.

Steve
2014-10-26 9:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Still hanging in
Sorry, double post

Edited by lutzman 2014-10-26 9:24 PM
2014-10-27 10:39 AM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Still hanging in
Glad to see you hanging in; never doubted you would.
Deb
2014-10-27 2:29 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Still hanging in
Originally posted by lutzman

Hey everyone. Hope you had a great weekend.

We're in full on Fall weather here in the North, so the outdoor training is starting to get more difficult. I managed a decent run on Saturday and a 1 hour 40 minute trainer ride in this morning while watching the Seahawks. Still working my way back, but I'm to the point now that I can pretty much train without pain.

Have a great week.

Steve


Great to hear, Steve!
2014-10-27 4:43 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Still hanging in

Originally posted by lutzman . . . but I'm to the point now that I can pretty much train without pain.

Steve

Well, unless your watching the Seahawks!  My how the mighty have fallen when my lowly Rams can end up on top!



2014-10-28 10:47 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Still hanging in
Originally posted by k9car363

Originally posted by lutzman . . . but I'm to the point now that I can pretty much train without pain.

Steve

Well, unless your watching the Seahawks!  My how the mighty have fallen when my lowly Rams can end up on top!




Yeah, that was both sad and PAINFUL.
2014-10-31 2:40 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: Bike Trainer...
It's fall in Seattle and the combination of rain and darkness is really cutting into my training on the bike. Either I need to man up and go ride in the rain and dark, or I need a bike trainer. I'm leaning toward the trainer. Nothing fancy at this point, just something to keep me going. Any suggestions?

There is a "almost new" Kurt Kinetic road machine on Craigslist for $150. Any experience with one of these?

Thanks!
Scott
2014-10-31 4:29 PM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: Bike Trainer...

Originally posted by EchoLkScott

It's fall in Seattle and the combination of rain and darkness is really cutting into my training on the bike. Either I need to man up and go ride in the rain and dark, or I need a bike trainer. I'm leaning toward the trainer. Nothing fancy at this point, just something to keep me going. Any suggestions?

There is a "almost new" Kurt Kinetic road machine on Craigslist for $150. Any experience with one of these?

Thanks! Scott

I bought a Kurt Kinetic when we still lived in Indiana.  I absolutely love it and still use it to this day, even though we now live in sunny Southern California.  You can't go wrong.  Their customer service is second to none and I suspect they will help you with any problems you may experience even though you are not the first owner (that is based on things I have heard from others who have purchased KK trainers second-hand).

2014-11-01 7:30 AM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: Bike Trainer...
Buy the Kurt Kinetic ASAP. $150 this time of year is a steal.
2014-11-04 11:49 AM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: RE: Bike Trainer...
Finally back in town from work. No more trips for work this year but a lot scheduled for next year. I will say I've missed the interaction with this group. I'm computer challenged so I couldn't get the laptop to work at the motel....

Anyway, there is no off season here in FL. I'm supposedly running my 1st marathon Saturday and I've already signed up for an 50K Dec 13. If anyone wants to run the 50K or up it to the 50 mile, come on down.

The marathon is in Columbus GA and is is supposed to be cold. I'm not sure how to handle the 36 degree start of the race..bbbbrrrrrr

I've been running very little over the past few weeks due to PF issues, just trying to make it to the start of the race so I'm not confident in the race. Hopefully I will be healed by Feb and can race my next marathon.

ya'll take care and keep on training......


2014-11-04 12:11 PM
in reply to: KWDreamun

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Sendai, Japan
Subject: RE: Bike Trainer...
Good luck with your first marathon Karl. Take your time and don't try to go out too fast. Start with a sweatshirt that you are prepared to throw away.
2014-11-06 2:44 PM
in reply to: KWDreamun

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Spencer, New York
Subject: RE: Bike Trainer...
Hey Karl, good luck in your race! If by PF issues you mean patellofemoral symdrome, you could ask your PT or sports physician, if you have either, to tape it for you for Saturday's race. For the long term, I have had success doing terminal knee extensions to improve how my patella sits. Oh, our creaky old bodies! They require so much attention to get them to cooperate with our ambitions!
I second Dan's comments about the throw-away sweatshirt. It's easy to overdress, and a marathon is a long time to be hot. If you do a brief warmup with 3-4 strides you'll be able to shed some layers before you start.
Again, lots of luck & let us know how you make out!
Deb from the North Country
2014-11-07 6:22 PM
in reply to: ok2try

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Spencer, New York
Subject: Belated race reports
I've done 3 short races in the last month, but have been neglectful about mentioning them here, (although I have written race reports)
The first was a cross-country 6k, which I managed to turn into 4 miles by going off course. I realized I had become mentally lazy and not bothered really learning the courses, just figuring I'd see other runners in front of me. Bad idea! Sometimes they're so far in front I can't see them any more. Here's the report on that one: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
The second was a 5k road race, exceptionally flat and very carefully measured. I ran a good race, set a PR at 27:18, and was only 6 seconds behind the winner of my AG (which in these running races is 60-69). Here is that report:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
The third was another x-c, nominally 6k but it was a little short I think. It featured a water crossing twice (well, you could choose to run on a bridge instead of through the water, but it would cost about 10 seconds on each crossing) Air temperature by the way was 35 degrees! It also included a steep trail climb through the woods. If there has ever been a race that went exactly according to plan, it was this one. My time was 34:42. Here's that report: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
I'm really enjoying this cross country series, especially the aspect of being on a team. I have developed so many friendships. We have 1 more local race, then the Nationals in December in Pennsylvania, where it can also be cold.
I've gained so much confidence in my running that I just signed up for my first Half-marathon in February.
Don't hang up your running shoes, guys! It's a great way to spend the off-season.
Deb
2014-11-09 9:30 AM
in reply to: ok2try

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Subject: Week before race training advice
Hi All,

Hope everyone is having a good season. Saturday I'm running a half marathon, which I guess will be my A race for the year by default :-) Can't say I'm as prepared as I'd like, but not a disaster. Biggest issue for me is the extra weight I'm still carrying around. That needs to come off by spring.

Question for the runners out there. If you're doing a long race, what is your training plan for the week before the race? Just short, loose runs? What distance? My max weekly mileage leading up to the race was 26 mi / week with a longest run of 12 miles.

Thanks in advance,
Stu
2014-11-09 11:12 AM
in reply to: juneapple

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Master
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Sendai, Japan
Subject: RE: Week before race training advice
Originally posted by juneappleHi All,Hope everyone is having a good season. Saturday I'm running a half marathon, which I guess will be my A race for the year by default :-) Can't say I'm as prepared as I'd like, but not a disaster. Biggest issue for me is the extra weight I'm still carrying around. That needs to come off by spring.Question for the runners out there. If you're doing a long race, what is your training plan for the week before the race? Just short, loose runs? What distance? My max weekly mileage leading up to the race was 26 mi / week with a longest run of 12 miles. Thanks in advance,Stu
Hi Stu...just my two cents based on what I normally do. I usually cut back to about half or so of my weekly mileage...something like 6 miles easy on Sunday, 4 miles on Tuesday and 2-3 miles on Thursday. If you have been including some tempo runs or strides in your training, include some tempo pace on Tues and strides on Sun/Thursday.


2014-11-09 11:17 AM
in reply to: ok2try

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Master
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Sendai, Japan
Subject: RE: Belated race reports
Originally posted by ok2tryI've done 3 short races in the last month, but have been neglectful about mentioning them here, (although I have written race reports)The first was a cross-country 6k, which I managed to turn into 4 miles by going off course. I realized I had become mentally lazy and not bothered really learning the courses, just figuring I'd see other runners in front of me. Bad idea! Sometimes they're so far in front I can't see them any more. Here's the report on that one: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... second was a 5k road race, exceptionally flat and very carefully measured. I ran a good race, set a PR at 27:18, and was only 6 seconds behind the winner of my AG (which in these running races is 60-69). Here is that report: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... third was another x-c, nominally 6k but it was a little short I think. It featured a water crossing twice (well, you could choose to run on a bridge instead of through the water, but it would cost about 10 seconds on each crossing) Air temperature by the way was 35 degrees! It also included a steep trail climb through the woods. If there has ever been a race that went exactly according to plan, it was this one. My time was 34:42. Here's that report: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp... really enjoying this cross country series, especially the aspect of being on a team. I have developed so many friendships. We have 1 more local race, then the Nationals in December in Pennsylvania, where it can also be cold. I've gained so much confidence in my running that I just signed up for my first Half-marathon in February.Don't hang up your running shoes, guys! It's a great way to spend the off-season.Deb
Sounds like you are having a great time and getting in some really good training too Deb. Running through water when it is only 35 degrees out? I think I would opt for the bridge.
2014-11-09 11:27 AM
in reply to: dcon

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Subject: 10 km pr and podium
I am currently visiting my sister who lives outside Houston. We ran a local 10k on Saturday - only about 150 people total. The weather was perfect and the course was flat. My 46:04 was good enough to win the men's 50+ age group and I was 5th overall. My sister took the women's 50+ and her husband was 3rd in the men's 50+. The 46:04 is a standalone 10k PR for me. I have two better 10k times from Oly distance triathlons, but I am pretty sure the course was short in both cases.
2014-11-09 2:34 PM
in reply to: dcon

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Royal(PITA)
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West Chester, Ohio
Subject: RE: 10 km pr and podium

Originally posted by dcon I am currently visiting my sister who lives outside Houston. We ran a local 10k on Saturday - only about 150 people total. The weather was perfect and the course was flat. My 46:04 was good enough to win the men's 50+ age group and I was 5th overall. My sister took the women's 50+ and her husband was 3rd in the men's 50+. The 46:04 is a standalone 10k PR for me. I have two better 10k times from Oly distance triathlons, but I am pretty sure the course was short in both cases.

Speedster!!  Congratulations!

2014-11-09 2:34 PM
in reply to: dcon

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Spencer, New York
Subject: RE: 10 km pr and podium
Congratulations Dan on your very nice 10k. It sounds like it was a fun family day as well as an achievement.
I kind of hate it when the courses are a little short. The first time, I thought it was pretty dire, but then I learned it's not all that unusual. It makes it hard to compare events.
What I learned about running through cold water: it makes you run faster on the other side!
Deb
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