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2015-01-02 8:06 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Chris I prefer cold water as well. My fastest half swim @:27:00 were in 60'ish degrees water. You would think not so because I loose feeling in my hands. My fingers start to open. It's funny to when stripping the wetsuit off your whole body is smoking.


2015-01-02 8:16 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Thanks Jason! I have more that I hope to get posted soon. One of me on a funny bike (Zunow) with a 20" front tire. It was taken at the Windward Half Iron 85-86 were I KQ.
2015-01-02 8:33 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by marcag 

bookmarked !!

Where is that post you had about taking a break from TT?  I think we need to book mark that one too!  

he is just too easy to prove wrong :-)

Starting tomorrow then?




Actually I thought about this, especially Jason's comment to just ignore things even when wrong. While I understand, I can't.
If I choose to participate in a thread and wrong information is posted, I will not hesitate to provide a counter point of view.
I will go out of my way to stay out of a thread, but if someone chooses to take comments I made and twist them, I will respond.

Oh well, nobody is perfect :-)





Marc, very eloquently handled. At frist I didn't get who you all were talking about. So went looking and it wasn't hard to miss. I know Fred had issues with this guy. Does he do this kind of thread derailment all the time? I posted something a long time ago a he chimed in about his 13 year old kid. I then asked him about his training which he replied he didn't. So all his advice is based ok his kid? Does really do the mass age groupers any good in real world.

2015-01-02 8:36 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ligersandtions

I know they're completely different races, but if you had a choice between Miami 70.3 and Silverman 70.3, which would you choose?  How long do you suppose registration will stay open?

Timing is good for me.  I'll have to travel for either.  I train in flat, windy, hot/humid conditions, so I'd be better trained for Miami 70.3, but enjoy the challenge and beauty of courses like Silverman.  I have some friends who are contemplating both races, so it'll be a joint decision, but just curious what the SBR Utopians have to say (I know Marc and Chris have raced both courses....others may have raced Miami and Vegas, so I imagine it'll be a fair comparison).  

Swim : slight preference for MiamiRun : slight preference for Miami. Slightly easier. Bike : the vegas course is much nicer, It comes down to do you want to do a super fast, one position, one speed for 90km or the ups and downs and scenery of the desert.City : I like Miami more as a city. I spent all my time in South Beach and Little Havana. I am not a big Vegas strip fan.I am thinking Bahrain but it's a long shot.
Funny have almost 180 degree views from Marc.

Swim - for me lake mead hands down, one of my favorite places to swim.

Bike- we agree here, the desert scenery beats downtown Miami and the long straight flat draft fest

run- I found difficulty to be about similar, but the three loops at henderson suited me better (frankly don't like either run all that much)

City- we stayed right at the host hotel so I saw some of Miami including south beach and wasn't too impressed. That said, I wouldn't go to the strip either as its not my scene (last year we drove out about noon and saw seinfeld then left at 8 the next morning) but if you've never been it's a place to see at least once. The race isn't really in vegas anyway, but about :20 away

Race direction- frank lowery (silverman) ran world's and the long course Champs and really knows how to put on a first class race.

Crowd- holy cow, 3000 people at Miami. Biggest transition area I've ever seen and the expected ridiculous drafting. That said, the main roads are closed, whereas silverman is not on closed roads. I started in the awa wave so didn't have a crowd but the later waves looked a bit bunched



We are probably not that far apart

The day before Vegas I went swimming in Meed and it was nice. Once in the water. The beach was really rocky. Race day the carpets helped a lot.
This year was exceptional with the wetsuit which shouldn't have been... but whatever.

I did not like the fact T1 and T2 were so far apart. I found having to check my bags in the day before race, at 2 locations a bit of a PITA and found the morning 45min shuttle ride out fo T1 annoying but not the end of the world

Frank is the best race director, hands down and I suspect his race will be consistently good.

Miami has a huge draft problem and this is something that makes me hesitate to go back. I found the selection of race that time of year pretty bad.

Overall I do think Vegas is a nicer course since the bike makes for a big part of the race. But that run....I have done it 3x (2xWC and 1xSilverman). It sucks !! But I think that's more that I sucked on it.

miami is definitely a PB course.


2015-01-02 9:03 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Who's raceing the Olympic Distance age group Nationals in Milwaukee, Wisconsin?

I am going to throw it out to my CFO, and see what she think. Olympic distance training is so different than Ironman training. So I don't know how good of a idea it would be to do. Any thoughts? My Ironman is in mid August 15'.

By the way, a update on my triple run. I don't think I posted here about it. Well the triple run for Christmas Eve didn't happen. Lessons learned was when attempting a multiple run day do them ez. Christmas Eva 1st run was 7 mile and the second was shorter but even faster. My legs just didn't recover enough to do the triple that night. So no attempt. I did do it on New Years Eve. I called it my "Triple Nickle" I did three ez 5 mlies. Cued off Dale's comments. It was fun each lasting just over 50 minutes. The next day was a bit of recovery with a short 30 min bike and 30 min run. I remember my first double run. Seams like recovery was long now not so much.



Edited by BrotherTri 2015-01-02 9:13 AM
2015-01-02 9:20 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by BrotherTri

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by marcag 

bookmarked !!

Where is that post you had about taking a break from TT?  I think we need to book mark that one too!  

he is just too easy to prove wrong :-)

Starting tomorrow then?




Actually I thought about this, especially Jason's comment to just ignore things even when wrong. While I understand, I can't.
If I choose to participate in a thread and wrong information is posted, I will not hesitate to provide a counter point of view.
I will go out of my way to stay out of a thread, but if someone chooses to take comments I made and twist them, I will respond.

Oh well, nobody is perfect :-)





Marc, very eloquently handled. At frist I didn't get who you all were talking about. So went looking and it wasn't hard to miss. I know Fred had issues with this guy. Does he do this kind of thread derailment all the time? I posted something a long time ago a he chimed in about his 13 year old kid. I then asked him about his training which he replied he didn't. So all his advice is based ok his kid? Does really do the mass age groupers any good in real world.




I would say half the threads he posts derail to his kid. If at least the information he was posting was accurate, maybe it would be useful. But it is grossly inacurate and misleading.

I use the term inaccurate because I do not believe he intentionally misleads. I really think he believes some of the stuff he posts. I suspect he is being fed some of it by the people around him. I suspect he takes bad information, misunderstands it and spits it out.




2015-01-02 11:44 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Hey Marc, fwiw I also read through the power thread. Had nothing to add but thought you handled it well. I'm finally getting my butt back on the trainer and using the workouts you and Shane put together for your power mentor group last year. Currently on Wk 4. Good stuff. And for grins,  Jens V posted a couple photos on FB.  Looks like he's also one of Zwift's beta testers. That you up front in the green jersey? :-)   

 

 

2015-01-02 12:11 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

I suspect the information given could actually be quite good (potentially), but then looking at how often (and how badly) quotes and responses to people on this site are butchered would guess the same thing is happening to that info. The difference between something like the sprint group profile and the need to sprint occasionally in a DL race is rather substantial and needed to be addressed (among other things).



Edited by brigby1 2015-01-02 12:12 PM
2015-01-02 12:18 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by marcag 

bookmarked !!

Where is that post you had about taking a break from TT?  I think we need to book mark that one too!  

he is just too easy to prove wrong :-)

Starting tomorrow then?

Actually I thought about this, especially Jason's comment to just ignore things even when wrong. While I understand, I can't. If I choose to participate in a thread and wrong information is posted, I will not hesitate to provide a counter point of view. I will go out of my way to stay out of a thread, but if someone chooses to take comments I made and twist them, I will respond. Oh well, nobody is perfect :-)
Marc, very eloquently handled. At frist I didn't get who you all were talking about. So went looking and it wasn't hard to miss. I know Fred had issues with this guy. Does he do this kind of thread derailment all the time? I posted something a long time ago a he chimed in about his 13 year old kid. I then asked him about his training which he replied he didn't. So all his advice is based ok his kid? Does really do the mass age groupers any good in real world.
I would say half the threads he posts derail to his kid. If at least the information he was posting was accurate, maybe it would be useful. But it is grossly inacurate and misleading. I use the term inaccurate because I do not believe he intentionally misleads. I really think he believes some of the stuff he posts. I suspect he is being fed some of it by the people around him. I suspect he takes bad information, misunderstands it and spits it out.

And the other half are flat out trolling.  I think he was actually training for Tahoe 2013 and got a running injury as I recall.  The volume of "beer league" and "AG doesn't matter" comments went up quite a bit after that... since he can't do it, he needs to drag everyone else down.  I think he gets somewhat of a pass around this site because he's a police officer (supposedly).  Whatever.  He's one of 2 people I actively ignore -- the other one used to derail everything into a religious debate.

2015-01-02 12:57 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by spudone

And the other half are flat out trolling.  I think he was actually training for Tahoe 2013 and got a running injury as I recall.  The volume of "beer league" and "AG doesn't matter" comments went up quite a bit after that... since he can't do it, he needs to drag everyone else down.  I think he gets somewhat of a pass around this site because he's a police officer (supposedly).  Whatever.  He's one of 2 people I actively ignore -- the other one used to derail everything into a religious debate.

I completely agree.  He was actually one of those that started that "30 runs in 30 days...who's with us" thread that lasted a long time.  He made it all the way to 280 consecutive days and was telling anyone that would listen (in other threads) that the key to better running is to run frequent, easy, and high mileage.  Then he hurt his knee...was out of IM Tahoe, then stated he would never do IM or long course ever again, and would never run high frequency or high mileage ever again.  It was since then that he really started pushing short course and draft legal down everyone's throat and that the way to really get faster is to train like his son and all the other junior elites.

It was really quite an interesting flip of the switch.  At one time he was just a regular age group poster who had a fast son...then he just kind of went crazy like the parent of a kid playing little league.

2015-01-02 1:38 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

... and now, as part of my new years resolution, I'm going to stick to Fred's original guidelines for this group and not gripe about things I can't change.



2015-01-02 3:24 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Thanks for the info on Miami vs Silverman!  I'm already registered for a hot/humid draft-fest (Galveston 70.3), so I'm not necessarily looking for another PR race this year, but rather for one that I'll enjoy.  I think Silverman would be my preference....Miami wasn't even on the radar until my friend mentioned she might be interested in racing.

I used to live in LA, so I've been to Vegas a number of times.  I've done the Vegas Strip thing enough.  This would be about the race and seeing some other things in the area that I haven't yet taken the time to do.  

I do wish Muskoka 70.3 hadn't moved to July!  That was high up on my list of potential races to do this year.  Oh well, another year!

2015-01-02 4:47 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Thanks for the info on Miami vs Silverman!  I'm already registered for a hot/humid draft-fest (Galveston 70.3), so I'm not necessarily looking for another PR race this year, but rather for one that I'll enjoy.  I think Silverman would be my preference....Miami wasn't even on the radar until my friend mentioned she might be interested in racing.

I used to live in LA, so I've been to Vegas a number of times.  I've done the Vegas Strip thing enough.  This would be about the race and seeing some other things in the area that I haven't yet taken the time to do.  

I do wish Muskoka 70.3 hadn't moved to July!  That was high up on my list of potential races to do this year.  Oh well, another year!

See you in henderson!

and my vote is with mark that we stop talking about LB in this group. Just my .02

2015-01-02 4:50 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
James, I think milwaukee may also be mid-early august....I'd go again but would have to qualify and have a big work conflict clear
2015-01-02 6:31 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ChrisM
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Thanks for the info on Miami vs Silverman!  I'm already registered for a hot/humid draft-fest (Galveston 70.3), so I'm not necessarily looking for another PR race this year, but rather for one that I'll enjoy.  I think Silverman would be my preference....Miami wasn't even on the radar until my friend mentioned she might be interested in racing.

I used to live in LA, so I've been to Vegas a number of times.  I've done the Vegas Strip thing enough.  This would be about the race and seeing some other things in the area that I haven't yet taken the time to do.  

I do wish Muskoka 70.3 hadn't moved to July!  That was high up on my list of potential races to do this year.  Oh well, another year!

See you in henderson!

and my vote is with mark that we stop talking about LB in this group. Just my .02

I vote we flood Fred's FB page with any such complaints.

2015-01-02 6:32 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ChrisM James, I think milwaukee may also be mid-early august....I'd go again but would have to qualify and have a big work conflict clear

It's Aug 8th & 9th. Might stop by if scheduling permits, but not racing this year either.



2015-01-03 1:11 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM James, I think milwaukee may also be mid-early august....I'd go again but would have to qualify and have a big work conflict clear

It's Aug 8th & 9th. Might stop by if scheduling permits, but not racing this year either.

JT and I will be there again this year - it would be fun if a SBRU crowd showed up. I will fall under the "age-up" policy for worlds next year so that might be my only shot at qualifying, so long as a slightly slower crowd shows up - ha ha.

2015-01-03 5:09 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM James, I think milwaukee may also be mid-early august....I'd go again but would have to qualify and have a big work conflict clear

It's Aug 8th & 9th. Might stop by if scheduling permits, but not racing this year either.

JT and I will be there again this year - it would be fun if a SBRU crowd showed up. I will fall under the "age-up" policy for worlds next year so that might be my only shot at qualifying, so long as a slightly slower crowd shows up - ha ha.

Only way I get there is if I pull off a miracle at Alcatraz and then somehow pull off some late travel/time off work.

2015-01-03 5:45 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM James, I think milwaukee may also be mid-early august....I'd go again but would have to qualify and have a big work conflict clear

It's Aug 8th & 9th. Might stop by if scheduling permits, but not racing this year either.

JT and I will be there again this year - it would be fun if a SBRU crowd showed up. I will fall under the "age-up" policy for worlds next year so that might be my only shot at qualifying, so long as a slightly slower crowd shows up - ha ha.

Only way I get there is if I pull off a miracle at Alcatraz and then somehow pull off some late travel/time off work.




Can you qualify at a 70.3 race ? Remember last year at Miami, we received invites ?

Do you know where Canadian Nationals are ? I wouldn't mind going to worlds if they are in Mexico.

Edited by marcag 2015-01-03 5:46 PM
2015-01-03 5:53 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

I really don't know the qualification rules but yes I remember getting the invite from Miami.  No idea on Canadian Nationals either.  Sometime soon I need to actually think about next summer beyond Alcatraz.  

2015-01-03 6:00 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by TankBoy
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM James, I think milwaukee may also be mid-early august....I'd go again but would have to qualify and have a big work conflict clear

It's Aug 8th & 9th. Might stop by if scheduling permits, but not racing this year either.

JT and I will be there again this year - it would be fun if a SBRU crowd showed up. I will fall under the "age-up" policy for worlds next year so that might be my only shot at qualifying, so long as a slightly slower crowd shows up - ha ha.

Only way I get there is if I pull off a miracle at Alcatraz and then somehow pull off some late travel/time off work.

Can you qualify at a 70.3 race ? Remember last year at Miami, we received invites ? Do you know where Canadian Nationals are ? I wouldn't mind going to worlds if they are in Mexico.

For US Nats, yes. 70.3 and 140.6 work. It has to be a triathlon and USAT sanctioned. That's pretty much it. Distance doesn't matter. I think a cancelled swim tri should still work, but not a duathlon. The sprint is still an open race.

ETA: I think the long course route isn't as common as that tends to be the focus for most people when they do one and those races tend to be deeper with competition.



Edited by brigby1 2015-01-03 6:01 PM


2015-01-04 5:21 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Funny how a coach can plan a set of intervals to be juuuuuust hard enough so that by the end of each one you don't think you can do another, but then after the recovery you are like "OK, maybe one more wouldn't be TOTALLY impossible...."

2015-01-04 6:29 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by TankBoy

Funny how a coach can plan a set of intervals to be juuuuuust hard enough so that by the end of each one you don't think you can do another, but then after the recovery you are like "OK, maybe one more wouldn't be TOTALLY impossible...."

I keep thinking it's time for a coach, and reading the above is tilting me there.  I **think** (as in, am pretty darn sure) that I'm not getting anywhere near the most out of my time spent working out.  Too many meh sessions on the bike, for instance.

That said, having just strained my achilles, I'm likely not going in on one until I know I can compete this year.

Anyone have an opinion on using a coach while recovering from an injury?  Is it, perhaps, even more useful - or less so in your estimation? 

Matt

2015-01-05 4:57 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by TankBoy

Funny how a coach can plan a set of intervals to be juuuuuust hard enough so that by the end of each one you don't think you can do another, but then after the recovery you are like "OK, maybe one more wouldn't be TOTALLY impossible...."




There is a tool in Raceday and Golden Cheetah that allows you to design such workouts. It uses a concept of CP and W'
W' is your anaerobic work capacity. CP is your critical power. Both are determined by a 5'/20' test.
When you ride above CP, your W' descreases. When it hits 0, you fail. Failure acutally feels like it's occurring a bit above 0

Here is a workout a two weeks ago. 3x7'@VO2. Look at the yellow line that decreases then increases on rest. You can actually see the model before doing the workout and adjusts rest interval, rest power, interval power accordingly to predict failure.

I have my W' set to 0 and I let it drop to -16000 before I hit failure. In this plot, I could have done one more interval

When you are able to complete workouts and go below your 0 W', it's time to retest since your CP or W' has probably gone up.

This model was published by Dr Skiba.



Edited by marcag 2015-01-05 5:00 AM




(Screenshot 2015-01-05 05.52.41.png)



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2015-01-05 7:29 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by TankBoy

Funny how a coach can plan a set of intervals to be juuuuuust hard enough so that by the end of each one you don't think you can do another, but then after the recovery you are like "OK, maybe one more wouldn't be TOTALLY impossible...."

There is a tool in Raceday and Golden Cheetah that allows you to design such workouts. It uses a concept of CP and W' W' is your anaerobic work capacity. CP is your critical power. Both are determined by a 5'/20' test. When you ride above CP, your W' descreases. When it hits 0, you fail. Failure acutally feels like it's occurring a bit above 0 Here is a workout a two weeks ago. 3x7'@VO2. Look at the yellow line that decreases then increases on rest. You can actually see the model before doing the workout and adjusts rest interval, rest power, interval power accordingly to predict failure. I have my W' set to 0 and I let it drop to -16000 before I hit failure. In this plot, I could have done one more interval When you are able to complete workouts and go below your 0 W', it's time to retest since your CP or W' has probably gone up. This model was published by Dr Skiba.

Intra-workout TSS!  Do you follow this real time, or is it something that you use between workouts to set your interval targets (sorry if that should be obvious)?

 

Matt

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