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2014-10-20 7:26 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by ChrisM

Anyone on facebook saw this already, but this is how my morning ride ended today.   Going 27+ when it happened so happy to have brought it to an injury free end.   I survived, but the rim, sadly, will not  

 

Pure craziness...

Took a minute to figure out what I was looking at.

I still say WheelBuilder should replace it at no charge just for positive publicity.  That screw went right through the middle of their decal.  In any case, at least it's only a ~$75 hoop.  Better than damage to the frame...or worse...the rider.



2014-10-20 7:30 PM
in reply to: Fred D

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, California
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Fred D

Short update...

All is well with me. Been running and swimming and not biking much.

The house is coming along nicely, maybe move in by Thanksgiving?

I am busy updating Strava to include all of my 2014 workouts. I will be logging there and Training Peaks. I like the community aspect of Strava, but prefer the analytic power of TP.

Not really missing the BT forums or logs much. The only draw to the site really is this group (for me) and a few friends who give me inspires, who I am FB friends with already. 

In the end I realize this was probably a long time coming for me (to leave). I'm quite sure Ron and the other owners are actually relieved ;-). I also realize that the only way to deal with trolls is to stop engaging them. Overtime, when I engage one of them, including the most recently famous one here, it gives them energy. Probably the best thing is to ignore them, or leave altogether. But, I digress... all is well.

Lastly, hoping to get on the Zoot Team again for 2015... we will see!

I like some of Strava's features but I wish it had better chat functionality.  Of course I'm not on Facebook so that limits my options

2014-10-21 6:07 AM
in reply to: Fred D

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!


On the topic of racing/training with Power and HR

During an interview with Starky (the real real one), he said he trains by power, always wears a HR strap, analyzes his workouts, then races by feel, but caps his HR in races.

Makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of people poopoo HR, call it redundant at best...but that is the second Uber biker that says that they do look at HR.
2014-10-21 6:12 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!


On the topic of data, i think it's amazing what people post in these forums, when all the data is out there to see.

If you are going to claim super duper swim splits or bike splits in the forum, don't say "I did race X" that shows the complete opposite of your claims.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.


The world has changed (not necessarily for the better). There is no more concept of privacy. Oh, and BTW, it is going to get much much much worst. Kind of scary and sad.
2014-10-21 6:33 AM
in reply to: marcag

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2014-10-21 6:36 AM
in reply to: marcag

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2014-10-21 7:18 AM
in reply to: marcag

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag On the topic of data, i think it's amazing what people post in these forums, when all the data is out there to see. If you are going to claim super duper swim splits or bike splits in the forum, don't say "I did race X" that shows the complete opposite of your claims. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm. The world has changed (not necessarily for the better). There is no more concept of privacy. Oh, and BTW, it is going to get much much much worst. Kind of scary and sad.

Making an observation is not nearly the same thing as understanding it. A concept that is lost upon many.

2014-10-21 7:38 AM
in reply to: brigby1

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag On the topic of data, i think it's amazing what people post in these forums, when all the data is out there to see. If you are going to claim super duper swim splits or bike splits in the forum, don't say "I did race X" that shows the complete opposite of your claims. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm. The world has changed (not necessarily for the better). There is no more concept of privacy. Oh, and BTW, it is going to get much much much worst. Kind of scary and sad.

Making an observation is not nearly the same thing as understanding it. A concept that is lost upon many.




I agree.

But what I wonder how many people in this world really understand some of the concepts of training. The real "why does this action, do that". I certainly don't.

example : "Why does Polarized training work for Norwegian skiers ?"

I can understand the concept that from a training capacity perspective you can't do 30hours of extreme intensity and this is maybe a way to optimize training load, but at the physical level, I wonder if anyone really understands

So you can observe that the best athletes do best under this regimen, but does anyone really understand why ?


2014-10-21 7:44 AM
in reply to: marcag

Veteran
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Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag On the topic of racing/training with Power and HR During an interview with Starky (the real real one), he said he trains by power, always wears a HR strap, analyzes his workouts, then races by feel, but caps his HR in races. Makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of people poopoo HR, call it redundant at best...but that is the second Uber biker that says that they do look at HR.

I train with power, but have not come close to hitting power numbers in any race I've done so far.  When it comes to racing, I've always felt like if I actually hit and held those powers, I'd be screwing myself over for the run, so I end up really pacing on RPE in the end.  Maybe it's a confidence thing (not actually believing I can run a HM after holding XXX watts for three hours) or maybe it makes more sense than I initially thought.

I do like to train with power because it keeps me from sandbagging my training.  I also like the feedback that HR gives me, but it's more of a reality check than something I need.

With regards to Starky and his uber biker reputation -- what happened to him at Kona (this year and last)?  I don't follow him all that much other than for Kona, but have been less than impressed to be honest.

2014-10-21 8:53 AM
in reply to: ligersandtions

Pro
4675
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Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by marcag On the topic of racing/training with Power and HR During an interview with Starky (the real real one), he said he trains by power, always wears a HR strap, analyzes his workouts, then races by feel, but caps his HR in races. Makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of people poopoo HR, call it redundant at best...but that is the second Uber biker that says that they do look at HR.

I train with power, but have not come close to hitting power numbers in any race I've done so far.  When it comes to racing, I've always felt like if I actually hit and held those powers, I'd be screwing myself over for the run, so I end up really pacing on RPE in the end.  Maybe it's a confidence thing (not actually believing I can run a HM after holding XXX watts for three hours) or maybe it makes more sense than I initially thought.

I do like to train with power because it keeps me from sandbagging my training.  I also like the feedback that HR gives me, but it's more of a reality check than something I need.

With regards to Starky and his uber biker reputation -- what happened to him at Kona (this year and last)?  I don't follow him all that much other than for Kona, but have been less than impressed to be honest.

When you say "not come close to hitting power numbers in any race so far" what "power numbers" are you referring to?.....FTP/ CP?  If you mean FTP/CP then you are correct for most race distances.  You will screw yourself for the run if you try to maintain that number for the bike portion of the race.  That's why racers should target a certain percentage of their FTP/CP for various race distances....with additional modifications to account for wind, gradient, etc.  So, put your trust in that percentage (not 100% of FTP or CP) instead of abandoning the power meter guidance altogether for racing.  Everyone knows that it wasn't that long ago racers only had RPE and HR to go by.  Power meters simply provides a more objective way of measuring work and training effects.  You can definitely get by using RPE and HR but too many things (especially cardiac drift for longer races) can affect HR.  As for those athletes that train with power but race by RPE, I would guess that most of them have calibrated their "internal RPE meter" so well by using power meters extensively for many years that they know within a few watts what intensity they are racing at.  At the prol level there likely are times where tactical requirements demand that monitoring watts has to be temporarily thrown out the window....as long as they know their body can handle that deviation from the race plan, or are willing to gamble on accepting how that deviation will affect their run. 

2014-10-21 12:11 PM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

I was targeting 78-80% of FTP -- and had done numerous rides to validate that I could be on the bike for three hours and run a few miles after pretty comfortably.  For each of my three HIM races, my NP came in at 74-76% of FTP, so I guess it's not that I wasn't close, but looking at the actual number being 10+ watts off makes it seem further than 2%...

I also train where it's flat and can put down constant power, but each of the three races were hilly (St. George, Buffalo Springs, Mont Tremblant) and there were times in each where I couldn't put any power down due to steep descents.  I did use my PM to cap my power on the ascents, so it's not like I didn't use it at all.

What I did do, though, was adjust targets when I felt like 80% was too aggressive and not going to result in a reasonable run.  I like the feedback, but I'm not going to blindly follow it if it feels like it's too hard for that day.



2014-10-21 12:55 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ligersandtions

I was targeting 78-80% of FTP -- and had done numerous rides to validate that I could be on the bike for three hours and run a few miles after pretty comfortably.  For each of my three HIM races, my NP came in at 74-76% of FTP, so I guess it's not that I wasn't close, but looking at the actual number being 10+ watts off makes it seem further than 2%...

I also train where it's flat and can put down constant power, but each of the three races were hilly (St. George, Buffalo Springs, Mont Tremblant) and there were times in each where I couldn't put any power down due to steep descents.  I did use my PM to cap my power on the ascents, so it's not like I didn't use it at all.

What I did do, though, was adjust targets when I felt like 80% was too aggressive and not going to result in a reasonable run.  I like the feedback, but I'm not going to blindly follow it if it feels like it's too hard for that day.

FTP isn't great for gauging your HIM capabilities and it's even worse for a full IM.  For a starting point, sure, maybe 80% for HIM and 70% for IM.  But you really need to ride the distance - preferably more than once - and adjust appropriately before you do the race.

And yeah, big hills can torch your legs even if you stick to your numbers otherwise.  When I did Tahoe, there were certain areas where I was riding at FTP just to stay upright.  And there was no way to keep cadence up, short of a mountain bike.  That's an extreme case.  But if you know the course has hilly sections, it's probably a good idea to back off a little more on the rest of it.

2014-10-21 1:43 PM
in reply to: marcag

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag On the topic of racing/training with Power and HR During an interview with Starky (the real real one), he said he trains by power, always wears a HR strap, analyzes his workouts, then races by feel, but caps his HR in races. Makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of people poopoo HR, call it redundant at best...but that is the second Uber biker that says that they do look at HR.

I've also adopted this way of thinking.  Ultimately you are trying to manage your body's effort and get the best out of you on that day.  Power is a metric that has nothing to do with how the body feels.  Power has no idea if your body is in the red zone or cruising in Z3.  

Power is great for training because it allows us to strive for concrete goals that will make us faster.  Pushing more watts means your bike goes faster.  Having a higher HR doesn't mean your bike goes faster.  But at the same time, the consequences of blowing up during a training ride (due to chasing power goals) are slim to none.  In fact, pushing too hard once in a while is probably a good way to learn about your body, your power, and how your RPE and HR correlate to such efforts.

Like Nicole, I rarely hit goal power numbers during races.  Even when using training rides as a gauge rather than a generic % of FTP for a given distance or time.  I prefer racing by HR and RPE and just using power as a secondary or tertiary metric to make sure my effort is smooth.  Never...not once...have I done a bike race, TT, or tri where I thought to myself...if I biked harder (or had a higher power goal)...I would have done better.

But that's just me...YMMV.

2014-10-21 1:55 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

I'm ALIVE!

Thanks for checking in, all. Yeah. That was pretty crazy. I'm trying not to complain too much about the setback to my running because honestly, I am alive (see training log for progress photo)

I didn't miss too many days of actual running but didn't do any hard workouts for 3 weeks. I'm not sure where that will leave me for the upcoming marathon Dec 7. I may just have to do my best for the next 6ish weeks with training and go into the race with an open mind. Any feedback is welcome though.

 

Hope all is well with you guys. I will try and catch up. 

2014-10-21 1:58 PM
in reply to: 0

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Anyone know if Ben King can swim?

http://www.strava.com/activities/210077806



Edited by Jason N 2014-10-21 1:58 PM
2014-10-21 2:16 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Asalzwed

I'm ALIVE!

Thanks for checking in, all. Yeah. That was pretty crazy. I'm trying not to complain too much about the setback to my running because honestly, I am alive (see training log for progress photo)

I didn't miss too many days of actual running but didn't do any hard workouts for 3 weeks. I'm not sure where that will leave me for the upcoming marathon Dec 7. I may just have to do my best for the next 6ish weeks with training and go into the race with an open mind. Any feedback is welcome though.

 

Hope all is well with you guys. I will try and catch up. 

Great to see you back



2014-10-21 2:21 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Jason N

Anyone know if Ben King can swim?

http://www.strava.com/activities/210077806

I think he should finish the marathon first.

2014-10-21 2:47 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Jason N

Anyone know if Ben King can swim?

http://www.strava.com/activities/210077806

I think he should finish the marathon first.

I think he came up a little short because as he was approaching the turns, instead of running the closest tangent on the pavement, he started bunny hopping curbs.

2014-10-21 3:24 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Asalzwed

I'm ALIVE!

Thanks for checking in, all. Yeah. That was pretty crazy. I'm trying not to complain too much about the setback to my running because honestly, I am alive (see training log for progress photo)

I didn't miss too many days of actual running but didn't do any hard workouts for 3 weeks. I'm not sure where that will leave me for the upcoming marathon Dec 7. I may just have to do my best for the next 6ish weeks with training and go into the race with an open mind. Any feedback is welcome though.

 

Hope all is well with you guys. I will try and catch up. 

So sorry you had to go through that but nice to see you smiling     Welcome back

2014-10-21 3:26 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Fred D

Originally posted by ChrisM

Anyone on facebook saw this already, but this is how my morning ride ended today.   Going 27+ when it happened so happy to have brought it to an injury free end.   I survived, but the rim, sadly, will not  

 

Pure craziness...

Took a minute to figure out what I was looking at.

I still say WheelBuilder should replace it at no charge just for positive publicity.  That screw went right through the middle of their decal.  In any case, at least it's only a ~$75 hoop.  Better than damage to the frame...or worse...the rider.

I agree, it should be free!    Haven't contacted them yet to see what a rebuild will cost.  Looked a bit at upgrading the PT into a zipp but really can't justify that kind of coin, will probably be getting another DT Swiss training wheel to cover. 

ANd yes, glad I was able to stop safely, that would not have been pretty.  THis is the kind of stuff I worry about on some big descents going fast.....

2014-10-21 5:14 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

And I made a hotel reservation for late July in Whistler.   Just in case

Happened across a pretty good rte in expedia, checked the hotel website and it was about $20 higher.  Called to see if they'd match and they said "hmmm, that's a mistake, should be $100 higher, I'd book right now if I were you as I am going to go change it."  Type as fast as I could and got a hotel 2 minutes from the finish for a touch over 100/night, with cancellation up to the Thursday before.  That is, IF I sign up.....



2014-10-21 5:18 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ChrisM

And I made a hotel reservation for late July in Whistler.   Just in case

Happened across a pretty good rte in expedia, checked the hotel website and it was about $20 higher.  Called to see if they'd match and they said "hmmm, that's a mistake, should be $100 higher, I'd book right now if I were you as I am going to go change it."  Type as fast as I could and got a hotel 2 minutes from the finish for a touch over 100/night, with cancellation up to the Thursday before.  That is, IF I sign up.....

Sweet deal!  Always a good idea to keep your options open.  

2014-10-21 5:20 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Asalzwed

I'm ALIVE!

Thanks for checking in, all. Yeah. That was pretty crazy. I'm trying not to complain too much about the setback to my running because honestly, I am alive (see training log for progress photo)

I didn't miss too many days of actual running but didn't do any hard workouts for 3 weeks. I'm not sure where that will leave me for the upcoming marathon Dec 7. I may just have to do my best for the next 6ish weeks with training and go into the race with an open mind. Any feedback is welcome though.

 

Hope all is well with you guys. I will try and catch up. 

Great to see you back, hope the recovery and training goes well!

2014-10-21 5:31 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

And I made a hotel reservation for late July in Whistler.   Just in case

Happened across a pretty good rte in expedia, checked the hotel website and it was about $20 higher.  Called to see if they'd match and they said "hmmm, that's a mistake, should be $100 higher, I'd book right now if I were you as I am going to go change it."  Type as fast as I could and got a hotel 2 minutes from the finish for a touch over 100/night, with cancellation up to the Thursday before.  That is, IF I sign up.....

Sweet deal!  Always a good idea to keep your options open.  

I'd see it as knee deep rather than keeping options open...LOL.

2014-10-21 6:52 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

And I made a hotel reservation for late July in Whistler.   Just in case

Happened across a pretty good rte in expedia, checked the hotel website and it was about $20 higher.  Called to see if they'd match and they said "hmmm, that's a mistake, should be $100 higher, I'd book right now if I were you as I am going to go change it."  Type as fast as I could and got a hotel 2 minutes from the finish for a touch over 100/night, with cancellation up to the Thursday before.  That is, IF I sign up.....

Sweet deal!  Always a good idea to keep your options open.  

I'd see it as knee deep rather than keeping options open...LOL.

Pretty much

Looks like 2015 will be

Boise 70.3
IM Canada
Silverman 70.3

Plus some other various and sundries

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