SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!! (Page 80)

My flip turns used to be quite awful, but after my last race this season, I decided to put in some time to improve them (swam some slower paces and focused on them rather than worrying about hitting intervals).  It took a couple weeks for them to feel natural and I still want to revert back to my sloppy turns on occasion, but they're quite a bit better now.  Not sure how much time savings they've given me (probably none!), but they look and feel better.  I haven't figured out how to make them "fast" yet.

I was thinking about this in the pool this morning.  I happened to have the swim team kids in a lane beside me and some triathletes who are ok swimmers in the lane on the other side of me.  As a result, I saw lots of flip turns of both the fast and not so fast variety.  I think the biggest thing that jumped out at me was that the non swimmers would flip and just let their feet/legs come around to the wall, place their feet and push off.  While the swimmers it's a much more aggressive motion where you can see them actively bringing their feet/legs over.  They also don't place their feet, it's a much smoother motion where by the time their feet touch they are already starting to push off so the contact time on the wall is much shorter.

Does that make sense?

Power testing question - how do you guys/gals find you end up pacing them?  I used to go out close to my previous number and try to hold that over the entire duration while adding to it a little bit.  But, the last couple of tests have both gone well and I found my power increasing over the whole 20min.  Yesterday:

1st 5min - Avg 255
2nd 5min - Avg 258
3rd 5min - Avg 266
4th 4min - Avg 272
Last min - Avg 300

Looking at the first 10min, I wonder if I should aim to push those just a little more, or if I'm really hitting the effort just right.  The other thing I'm doing is covering up my power number.  I check it for the first couple of min to make sure I'm getting up to a reasonable wattage and then throw a towel over the Garmin and just focus on the cadence number on the computer screen.  The goal throughout is to slightly increase the rpm - so yesterday I started out at around 87 but before the final minute push had gotten up to about 91.  At 10min I took a peek a the power number to make sure I was in fact on track, and then covered it back up till the final 2min.

Happy with the past couple of test results, just wondering if anyone thinks this approach may be leaving a few watts on the table during the first 10min.

The other day I reached out to a friend of mine for some swim help. He finished 3rd in the M45-49 at IM WI last month with a 10:01 and had a 50:52 swim split. I think next year will be his 3rd trip to Kona.  He said he'd be happy to do some one on one work with me so I will meet him at the Y tonight.  If I can fix my swim issues I might have a fighting chance at KQ one of these times.  I have no delusions that there is a silver bullet but I'd like to know if there are glaring issues with my stroke.  Fingers crossed.

Originally posted by mndymond Ran about 8k with a friend today. Its getting to be a bit cold now....it actually snowed at higher altitude....all the cars coming into town have snow on the tops... On the plus side I bought some skate skis, boots and poles at the ski swap in town yesterday for $125....so maybe snow would be okay....I'm pretty impressed with my deal. Haha

Awesome! Skate is pretty much the closest thing you can get to running without actually running. Plus I mean, c'mon, warming huts? I plan on doing a lot more skate/cross country this year. I also just finished my splitboard so I can do some backcountry touring. 

Neil...what testing protocol are you using?  Are you doing the 5' blowout, or just a warmup (with some short efforts in there) and then the 20' test?

I have never done the test with the 5' blowout, but rather a 30-35' warmup that builds to Z3, then 5x1' that slowly increases with each rep with the first 1' at 30w below target, and the last one 5-10w above target.  It's the same way I warm up for short TTs.

From my experience, your pacing is pretty close to what I would shoot for.  Maybe a tad on the conservative side, but generally my first 10' is about 2-3w below my overall target and the last 10' is 2-3w above target.  For sure the last 60-90 seconds is going to be higher as that's when you're unloading whatever you have left.  It seems you were about 5w below your overall average the first 10' and 5w above the last 10', so you're in the ball park and probably could have squeezed out a couple more watts, but it's still a good test.  Its probably unlikely you could have gone 6-8w higher overall unless you felt really good at the end.

I like to play these tests a hair on the safe side.  Because the purpose of the test is a test of fitness to guide other workouts, I rather be a hair under maximum and can adjust for it than completely blow up at the 15' mark and not really know what I could have held the entire 20'.  Also...just for motivational purposes, it's a lot easier to suffer the last 10' when you know power is slightly increasing rather than slightly slipping away.

I've committed to doing a run focus this winter and did my first stand alone half marathon yesterday.  Race report is here -- would love some feedback from the many strong runners in the group

I've committed to doing a run focus this winter and did my first stand alone half marathon yesterday.  Race report is here -- would love some feedback from the many strong runners in the group

Nicole, what's your plan for the 12 weeks, do you have a plan/program that you are going to follow?  Sounds like the race gave you a good starting point and something you can use for training paces.

I was thinking about this in the pool this morning.  I happened to have the swim team kids in a lane beside me and some triathletes who are ok swimmers in the lane on the other side of me.  As a result, I saw lots of flip turns of both the fast and not so fast variety.  I think the biggest thing that jumped out at me was that the non swimmers would flip and just let their feet/legs come around to the wall, place their feet and push off.  While the swimmers it's a much more aggressive motion where you can see them actively bringing their feet/legs over.  They also don't place their feet, it's a much smoother motion where by the time their feet touch they are already starting to push off so the contact time on the wall is much shorter.

Does that make sense?

I think it's great you did a race to use as a baseline, so, great job!

Most of the comments I have seem to be things you already know via your RR.

1. Pacing. Going out too fast and trying to hang on almost never works. I think it's great that you did it though. Now you know. Also, sometimes you need to try this approach just to find your limits. I'm sure you will figure this out as you get into the run focus, so I'm not really concerned. Be mindful as you train, of the indicators that you are pushing past your limits.

2. Muscular endurance, as you noted, will come along. Just keep running. 

3. Warming up. You clearly know this too but warm-up is critical, even in endurance racing. 

4. I do wonder though, this being a race to find your baseline and all, if it may have been a good idea to do an actual taper and really race it as a race. The numbers you pull from it would be more accurate if that makes sense. I would encourage you to do more races to make sure the numbers seem to line up. And they don't have to be "A" races but you can certainly taper and recover for them, it's all part of the process. 

I suppose given that I'm pretty new to running and that it's not exactly a strength of mine that making my own plan up is probably not the best idea, huh?

I've been running mostly in the 35-40 mpw range, six to seven days a week.  Over the past four or so weeks, I've been doing one 30 minute tempo run, one threshold run (3x5' @ 5k pace), one long run, and the remaining runs easy (with optional strides).  I found an "8 weeks to your best half marathon" plan in a Competitor magazine and was thinking of modifying it slightly -- they do five days a week of running with some mid-week runs that are longer than I realistically am willing to devote.

If you have a suggestion for what plan to use, I'm certainly open to it.  When I searched a while back it seemed like the free plans were very much beginner plans, and though I'm not fast, I have built up to being able to run 35-40 mpw pretty well.  

15min w/u to 200 watts
Mix of spin up intervals + 30sec higher wattage intervals
3min getting up to threshold power
5min easy
Go time...

I was done at the end of the test with HR hitting 180, and I was avg of 172 for the whole test, which is a good indicator that I paced it at the right effort.  Did wonder if I could have gone a touch harder at the beginning, hence the question.  That said, I'm always a slow starter and it takes me a while to find my groove and get going - same is true of running where I'll always negative split a test.

Lastly, I have been accepted for TEAM ZOOT 2015.

I'm really pumped about this!

Lastly, I have been accepted for TEAM ZOOT 2015.

I'm really pumped about this!

I went back and forth on taper versus no taper for that reason.  I guess I did a bit of a "mini taper" as I took Friday off from running, and then just did a short two mile run on Saturday (race on Sunday).  Mileage for the week was a little on the low side, but not excessively.  

That said, I also have this fear that I won't actually get better (I hope it's irrational!), so I figured I could stack the cards in my favor and ensure I PR simply by tapering next time around

Also, not really knowing what I could do for the race, I might well have done exactly what I did on tapered legs and had it not turn out any differently.  I am kinda glad I started too hard and got to know how sucky it is to fade half way through the race.  I'll definitely remember that for the next time I think, "Wow, this pace is super easy" when it's faster than paces I know I can hold in training!

Lastly, I have been accepted for TEAM ZOOT 2015.

I'm really pumped about this!

Lastly, I have been accepted for TEAM ZOOT 2015.

I'm really pumped about this!