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2014-12-22 10:35 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.
This makes sense. Like climbing a 20% grade in 39/23 for me. When I get that low in RPM's something is soon stopping or I am out of the saddle. So I get it. Wednesday I'll test. Does Jim want in?

which Jim?  Don't know how many of us are on here....



2014-12-22 10:47 AM
in reply to: Birkierunner

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by Birkierunner

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.
This makes sense. Like climbing a 20% grade in 39/23 for me. When I get that low in RPM's something is soon stopping or I am out of the saddle. So I get it. Wednesday I'll test. Does Jim want in?

which Jim?  Don't know how many of us are on here....




No not really, what maybe a couple. So Marc has a test kind of challenge if you want to do it. Read the last page or so.

Oh.... yeah if you want to do it and can pri yourself away from skiing a while.
2014-12-22 10:50 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

Yeah and @ how many RPM's loss? I can see defections now going up in watts. I can spin ez 110+ but at 350w maybe 80 RPM's maybe I can go more to 90. So I guess I should shoot for 70 ish RPM's?
Ya, I think the idea is when you can't go at your normal cadence +/- 10 or so

Ok yeah that makes sense.  

2014-12-22 11:13 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

All, 

The request for an account deletion has been at Fred's request.  I sincerely apologize for this.  This is the part of my job that I hate - being a mod and trying to be impartial.  Fred has been with us for a long time.  He is extremely helpful.  In fact, he is one of the very few that I have spoken with over the phone.  I respect him 100%, he has done a lot for BT.  I don't want to see him go either.  I have tried to offer options and to talk him out of it.  Up until this point, I have not forum timed-out him, banned him, etc.  I have really been trying to defuse the 'situation' over the past month and to go the extra mile to work with him.

As a mod, I know a lot more about this situation than you do.  I have exchanged pm's from all involved, etc.  Please understand that you only have half the information.  What if you, as a juror, had to decide a case only based on the prosecution's testimony?  I just served on jury duty and after one side presents the case, you are kind of thinking, 'wow...yeah, this guy needs to be hanged!'...only to then backtrack when you hear the defense's testimony.

Just know that I am not out to ban Fred and have nothing against him, that I preferred that he stayed to continue helping.  I just want people to get along, that's it.  I'm sorry that I can't go into the specifics, but I have to respect the privacy of the parties.  

I will continue to hold Fred's account through the weeks-end in case he changes his mind as I realize that emotions are high right now.  I will also continue to work with Fred, should he want, to keep him a member of the BT community.

2014-12-22 11:16 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by Fred D Canadians are Fast, and crafty!

Not this one, it took me 3 or 4 days to realize the group had switched to the archives!  I just thought things were quiet....   

Aw Fudge - count me in as well. One of these days I will learn that when the group goes silent that it just means we have been archived....

2014-12-22 11:23 AM
in reply to: Ron

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Thanks for that Ron - I  know everyone here appreciates the work you do, as difficult as it is to understand how the situation got this way. I too will very much miss Fred - he was the first person on BT with which I had  interaction a number of years ago and he helped me a great deal as I prepared for my first Ironman. If he truly leaves BT he will be sorely missed by many. 



2014-12-22 11:52 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

2014-12-22 11:53 AM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by BrotherTri Yes all Fred is gone from BT. It was his decision. That I respect. As far as BT goes it really need to understand that people are here on their own and with that can leave. If quality people leave BT not much use to new comers. I don't no what more to say........

I love Fred, and think he's a great guy, but anyone wanna lay odds as to when he'll be back??  

2014-12-22 11:56 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag James, Fred and Chris (since you all have CTs) Want to try something fun ? Have you ever tried a MAP test. You basically start at say 200w and every minute increase by 25w until failure. The average power of your last minute is your Maximum aerobic power In theory your 5' power should be about 90% of this. Your FTP 72-75% of this. I suspect it overstates FTP for many of us. Try it, it's fun.

Oof - that doesn't sound fun Marc! Back in the prime of race prep I had a few workouts called "tap out progressions" that were somewhat sorta-kinda similar, except they had descending recoveries built in between the progressions.  So they went something like:

Warm up 15 minutes
5 minutes of 15 seconds HARD, 45 seconds EZ
5 minutes @ 200 watts to get the HR up.
5 min EZ

Main Set:
Start at 200 watts, then every 1 minute you either add or subtract 5 watts, so the protocol went like this:

1 min 200 watts
1 min 195 watts recovery
1 min 205
1 min 190 recovery
1 min 210
1 min 185 recovery
etc, etc. to failure.

You don't reduce recovery wattage below 150. It holds there. The harder wattage of course keeps building. So as long as your lap power is over the target wattage by the end then you did it correctly.

Once you tap out pedal EZ for 5 minutes, then:

30 seconds @ 280 watts
add 20 watts each round. Recovery effort did not matter, and I could hold my wattage by every means necessary - stand, low cadence, etc.

After I tapped that one out I did another 5 minutes EZ

Then repeated the last set one last time same protocol, followed by a 10 minute warm down, so a total of 3 sets of intervals.

IIRC I tapped out at 320w on the first one, 420 on the second one, and 410 on the third one. It was a little brutal at the end of each, but it was also the quickest 2 hours I have ever spent on the trainer - was really surprised how the time flew.

2014-12-22 12:00 PM
in reply to: TankBoy

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by TankBoy

Thanks for that Ron - I  know everyone here appreciates the work you do, as difficult as it is to understand how the situation got this way. I too will very much miss Fred - he was the first person on BT with which I had  interaction a number of years ago and he helped me a great deal as I prepared for my first Ironman. If he truly leaves BT he will be sorely missed by many. 

HAving been a mod for a short while here back when I was sick (and I forever owe Ron a debt of gratitude on that as it kept me "in the game"), I realized what a tough job it is.   You can never, ever please everyone, and you can never, ever truly explain all of the things you have to read that has been banished ((posts, not people).  You react too harshly, or not harshly enough, or too quickly, or not quickly enough.  It's truly no win.  In fact, for a couple years there was a guy harassing me over on slowtwitch as he was convinced I was the one that got him banned (not bryand and I wasn't even a mod when this guy got banned).

One thing I did learn was that it takes a HELLUVA lot to actually get banned, but everyone knows this site is moderated, so you pull the shark's tail one too many times, you get bit sometimes. Either by havinig posts removed or being banned, temporarily or permanently. 

After a while I realized it just wasn't worth the trouble, so I asked to be removed.  So kudos to those that hang onto that job and perform it as best they can.  None of us know what actually goes on behind the scenes

Anyway, just my .02

Fred has left BT before, and then come back.  Hopefully this will be like those times.

2014-12-22 12:22 PM
in reply to: Ron

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Ron

All, 

The request for an account deletion has been at Fred's request.  I sincerely apologize for this.  This is the part of my job that I hate - being a mod and trying to be impartial.  Fred has been with us for a long time.  He is extremely helpful.  In fact, he is one of the very few that I have spoken with over the phone.  I respect him 100%, he has done a lot for BT.  I don't want to see him go either.  I have tried to offer options and to talk him out of it.  Up until this point, I have not forum timed-out him, banned him, etc.  I have really been trying to defuse the 'situation' over the past month and to go the extra mile to work with him.

As a mod, I know a lot more about this situation than you do.  I have exchanged pm's from all involved, etc.  Please understand that you only have half the information.  What if you, as a juror, had to decide a case only based on the prosecution's testimony?  I just served on jury duty and after one side presents the case, you are kind of thinking, 'wow...yeah, this guy needs to be hanged!'...only to then backtrack when you hear the defense's testimony.

Just know that I am not out to ban Fred and have nothing against him, that I preferred that he stayed to continue helping.  I just want people to get along, that's it.  I'm sorry that I can't go into the specifics, but I have to respect the privacy of the parties.  

I will continue to hold Fred's account through the weeks-end in case he changes his mind as I realize that emotions are high right now.  I will also continue to work with Fred, should he want, to keep him a member of the BT community.

I understand the difficulty in being impartial.  I will never know about 99% of the posts that get removed.  But I also think there's a hmm...  I think sometimes you (or other mods) are trying to be even-handed and that leads to a high level of patience towards people who are trolling or spreading misinformation.  Fred isn't one of those, and he should get the benefit of the doubt over people who detract from the site.

I've had a post pulled before (totally deserved) and I've since removed myself from that particular forum.  Fred - if the stress outweighs the benefits, I understand and I'll see you in Alcatraz   But I just wanted to voice that you're one of the people who got me to where I am today, so thanks.

- Mark



2014-12-22 12:37 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

I know, I was thinking the same thing.  I'd be all over this - if only...   

.

.

.

2014-12-22 12:45 PM
in reply to: Ron

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by Ron

All, 

The request for an account deletion has been at Fred's request.  I sincerely apologize for this.  This is the part of my job that I hate - being a mod and trying to be impartial.  Fred has been with us for a long time.  He is extremely helpful.  In fact, he is one of the very few that I have spoken with over the phone.  I respect him 100%, he has done a lot for BT.  I don't want to see him go either.  I have tried to offer options and to talk him out of it.  Up until this point, I have not forum timed-out him, banned him, etc.  I have really been trying to defuse the 'situation' over the past month and to go the extra mile to work with him.

As a mod, I know a lot more about this situation than you do.  I have exchanged pm's from all involved, etc.  Please understand that you only have half the information.  What if you, as a juror, had to decide a case only based on the prosecution's testimony?  I just served on jury duty and after one side presents the case, you are kind of thinking, 'wow...yeah, this guy needs to be hanged!'...only to then backtrack when you hear the defense's testimony.

Just know that I am not out to ban Fred and have nothing against him, that I preferred that he stayed to continue helping.  I just want people to get along, that's it.  I'm sorry that I can't go into the specifics, but I have to respect the privacy of the parties.  

I will continue to hold Fred's account through the weeks-end in case he changes his mind as I realize that emotions are high right now.  I will also continue to work with Fred, should he want, to keep him a member of the BT community.




Thanks Ron,

A big part of the problem is what is know as a troll

A guy, in an age group traithlon site that says AG triathlon is "not important", "nobody cares", "a wednesday nigh beer league".
A guy who drops into a Kona thread to say how he doesn't care about IM, all that counts is Jr elite racing
A guy who turns a thread about not eating meat about his son eating steak
Never mind. A guy that turns every thread he participates in into a story about his kid.
A guy that calls anyone that isn't the speed of a 16 y/o : slow.
A guy that said how he loved to poke people on other boards and watch them go nuts

As mods, do you feel there is a problem of trolling ?

Trolling brings out the worst in people. Some see the source of the problem as hypocritically, anonymously hiding behind a keyboard. So they fight the anonymity and make mistakes doing that.

Others get caught by the trolling and turn around and do the same. A certain troll has had me post things I would otherwise had not posted.

Being a mod is not a fun job. I just hope you are seeing the root problem rather than just some of the symptoms.

Eliminate the trolling and several problems go away.
2014-12-22 12:48 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

I know, I was thinking the same thing.  I'd be all over this - if only...   

.

.

.




This is a legit test

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2006/12/map-testing-where-failure-is-...


a) it's not that bad. You suffer for a minute or two
b) I did it yesterday, went for a run a few hours later. No side effects.
c) it's way way easier than the 5 or 20' test. Way easier.
d) you're all a bunch of wimps if you don't do it. (I'm a troll)
2014-12-22 12:50 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Ron

All, 

The request for an account deletion has been at Fred's request.  I sincerely apologize for this.  This is the part of my job that I hate - being a mod and trying to be impartial.  Fred has been with us for a long time.  He is extremely helpful.  In fact, he is one of the very few that I have spoken with over the phone.  I respect him 100%, he has done a lot for BT.  I don't want to see him go either.  I have tried to offer options and to talk him out of it.  Up until this point, I have not forum timed-out him, banned him, etc.  I have really been trying to defuse the 'situation' over the past month and to go the extra mile to work with him.

As a mod, I know a lot more about this situation than you do.  I have exchanged pm's from all involved, etc.  Please understand that you only have half the information.  What if you, as a juror, had to decide a case only based on the prosecution's testimony?  I just served on jury duty and after one side presents the case, you are kind of thinking, 'wow...yeah, this guy needs to be hanged!'...only to then backtrack when you hear the defense's testimony.

Just know that I am not out to ban Fred and have nothing against him, that I preferred that he stayed to continue helping.  I just want people to get along, that's it.  I'm sorry that I can't go into the specifics, but I have to respect the privacy of the parties.  

I will continue to hold Fred's account through the weeks-end in case he changes his mind as I realize that emotions are high right now.  I will also continue to work with Fred, should he want, to keep him a member of the BT community.

Thanks Ron, A big part of the problem is what is know as a troll A guy, in an age group traithlon site that says AG triathlon is "not important", "nobody cares", "a wednesday nigh beer league". A guy who drops into a Kona thread to say how he doesn't care about IM, all that counts is Jr elite racing A guy who turns a thread about not eating meat about his son eating steak Never mind. A guy that turns every thread he participates in into a story about his kid. A guy that calls anyone that isn't the speed of a 16 y/o : slow. A guy that said how he loved to poke people on other boards and watch them go nuts As mods, do you feel there is a problem of trolling ? Trolling brings out the worst in people. Some see the source of the problem as hypocritically, anonymously hiding behind a keyboard. So they fight the anonymity and make mistakes doing that. Others get caught by the trolling and turn around and do the same. A certain troll has had me post things I would otherwise had not posted. Being a mod is not a fun job. I just hope you are seeing the root problem rather than just some of the symptoms. Eliminate the trolling and several problems go away.

Whomever could you be talking about??

On the one hand I'd say we also have a responsibility to simply ignore it.  There are two people in particular on BT that I will never, ever respond to or even acknowledge their existence.  But the problem is that if we all do that then the site just degrades and the trolls continue to post as they like, and people just stop going to it.   Not that I am any indication of anything, but in recent months I've gone into TT, seen a few things that bother me, start typing a response and then realize I don't really care, and delete it.  If we all end up doing that, that's obviously not good for a site.

I have no doubt-- I would hope-- that the person referenced above has had his run ins with BT mods.  That's the part we are not privy to



Edited by ChrisM 2014-12-22 12:56 PM
2014-12-22 12:55 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

I know, I was thinking the same thing.  I'd be all over this - if only...   

.

.

.

This is a legit test http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2006/12/map-testing-where-failure-is-... a) it's not that bad. You suffer for a minute or two b) I did it yesterday, went for a run a few hours later. No side effects. c) it's way way easier than the 5 or 20' test. Way easier. d) you're all a bunch of wimps if you don't do it. (I'm a troll)

Hold on there, sounds dangerous!  

"Firstly it is very important that you are healthy and reasonably fit to perform such a test. These are maximal efforts and so you should always consult your
physician/doctor if in any doubt about your suitability for such testing, and most definitely if you ....are over 35 years old."



2014-12-22 1:00 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

I know, I was thinking the same thing.  I'd be all over this - if only...   

.

.

.

This is a legit test http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2006/12/map-testing-where-failure-is-... a) it's not that bad. You suffer for a minute or two b) I did it yesterday, went for a run a few hours later. No side effects. c) it's way way easier than the 5 or 20' test. Way easier. d) you're all a bunch of wimps if you don't do it. (I'm a troll)

Hold on there, sounds dangerous!  

"Firstly it is very important that you are healthy and reasonably fit to perform such a test. These are maximal efforts and so you should always consult your
physician/doctor if in any doubt about your suitability for such testing, and most definitely if you ....are over 35 years old."





Any better or worst than the 5'/20' tests we do ?
2014-12-22 1:08 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

I know, I was thinking the same thing.  I'd be all over this - if only...   

.

.

.

This is a legit test http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2006/12/map-testing-where-failure-is-... a) it's not that bad. You suffer for a minute or two b) I did it yesterday, went for a run a few hours later. No side effects. c) it's way way easier than the 5 or 20' test. Way easier. d) you're all a bunch of wimps if you don't do it. (I'm a troll)

Hold on there, sounds dangerous!  

"Firstly it is very important that you are healthy and reasonably fit to perform such a test. These are maximal efforts and so you should always consult your
physician/doctor if in any doubt about your suitability for such testing, and most definitely if you ....are over 35 years old."

Any better or worst than the 5'/20' tests we do ?

Those don't come with such dire warnings.

2014-12-22 1:12 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

I know, I was thinking the same thing.  I'd be all over this - if only...   

.

.

.

This is a legit test http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2006/12/map-testing-where-failure-is-... a) it's not that bad. You suffer for a minute or two b) I did it yesterday, went for a run a few hours later. No side effects. c) it's way way easier than the 5 or 20' test. Way easier. d) you're all a bunch of wimps if you don't do it. (I'm a troll)

Honestly, it doesn't sound that bad to me....but that's only because I'd be completely spent after only a few minutes of making 25W jumps.  It might be "easier" and shorter than a 5' test :P

2014-12-22 1:17 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ~~~~ Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by axteraa

Why is dropping cadence part of the failure?

I think that when you start dropping to 40rpm, just mashing the pedals with your body weight, you've gone over the line.

Seems a little subjective for comparison though.  Heck if the pedals are still moving i'm good!

Too bad my coach would never let me do somehting like that, and I follow my workouts religiously.  Sad, cuz I'd really love to do this... Ah well...........

I know, I was thinking the same thing.  I'd be all over this - if only...   

.

.

.

This is a legit test http://alex-cycle.blogspot.ca/2006/12/map-testing-where-failure-is-... a) it's not that bad. You suffer for a minute or two b) I did it yesterday, went for a run a few hours later. No side effects. c) it's way way easier than the 5 or 20' test. Way easier. d) you're all a bunch of wimps if you don't do it. (I'm a troll)

Honestly, it doesn't sound that bad to me....but that's only because I'd be completely spent after only a few minutes of making 25W jumps.  It might be "easier" and shorter than a 5' test :P

No such luck, you have to do 15w increments.  There is this in the fine print - "Women use 15W/min"

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2014-07-30 9:43 AM IndoIronYanti
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