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2014-06-28 10:28 PM
in reply to: jareed58

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos


2014-06-29 3:02 PM
in reply to: #5006685

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
You're lifting your head when you breathe. That causes your hips to drop and creates a lot of drag. Your kick is too wide. You can work on both of these at one time...get some fins and start by kick the length with one arm extended and one arm down by your side. Kick from your hip without a whole lot of knee bend. Rotate your head just enough to get a breath..preferably, you want one goggle to stay under water when you breathe.
2014-06-29 5:12 PM
in reply to: 0


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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
Originally posted by jareed58

Let me try this way. Sorry new at posting videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD9ByfdId5k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg-Mxhv_ayY


From front to back:

Dont cross the centerline with your hands. You are having to pull to the side before you pull back....very inefficient

Reach out farther with your hands. This will assist with placing your body in the proper posistion to breath without lifting your head.

Dont lift your head to breath. When you lift it, your body goes into an S shape causing lots of drag.

You are splitting your legs waaaay to far apart. This causes lots of drag and detracts from and leg propulsion.

On the second video (side view) watch your left leg. As you head lifts out of the water (to the right), your left hip drops causin your righr leg to "flick" (instead of a controlled kick) as your body unconciously tries to maintain bouyancy.



Edited by SeeVee 2014-06-29 5:17 PM
2014-06-29 5:29 PM
in reply to: Swimaway


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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
Originally posted by Swimaway

Originally posted by dprocket

Thanks for offering the help.

I would like some stroke instruction, but haven't been able to get video of me yet....hopefully soon.

However, my wife recently just took up the sport. Two weeks ago she completed her first sprint tri and now she's hooked. She started training in late March and before then had never swam across the pool before. I worked with her just a bit as we tried to get her ready to just finish. I think she's made great strides in only a few weeks of training, but I'm certain that there is a lot that she can work to improve since that initial hurdle has been overcome.

Here's a few videos we shot a couple weeks ago:

Side view:
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/9jp87hig3rt25a3/AADz9LRjgQUzCXmHOL0GyPjia

Straight on:
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/eioaua9x75kswck/AADF2RLvTpAnEUzK4JStAC2ga

Another straight on:
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/kbtausx85q67hy3/AABv963UY6uAjtKt20wxgW1ma

Interested in feedback. Keep in mind...she's brand new, so be gentle.


Hey there! I'm doing this from a plane, with spotty internet, so forgive me

Stroke looks pretty good!

Here are some suggestions.

Rotation - Her stroke is pretty flat, except when she breathes, then it gets exaggerated. It's almost like she's looking behind her when she breathes. So, I would be recommending the Catch up drill that I recommended earlier.

Left hand - Her left hand seems to cross the imaginary centerline quite a bit. I think this will sort itself out with the rotation.

Kick - There is a bit of kick from the knee, not the hip as the video progresses. Initially, her kick looks pretty good, but it becomes more from the knees and less from the hips. Kicking with a board and focusing on kicking from the hips, straight legs... that will help.



Two things stood out to me:

1) her hands are way too stiff/tense. It takes muscle energy to maintain that stiff position. Its kind of like a perpetual flex.
2) it seems as if she is reaching backwards with her arms making a giant circle. Again wasting energy.
2014-07-01 8:47 AM
in reply to: SeeVee

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
Thanks for the help. I will concentrate on this in the pool today.
2014-08-15 8:10 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
Ok, finally got around to having somebody at the gym video tape me. Looking back I should have gotten into the lane closest to them and also should have done another lap with them getting a head on shot at the end of the lane. I didn't want to bother them too much, maybe next time.

A little back ground on me. The first clip is from February last year and at that point I had been swimming for about a month. I had no prior swimming experience and I am self taught. The first probably 6 to 8 months of learning I could comfortably swim at about a 2:10 - 2:15 / 100yd pace for several hundred yards. It is now about 18 months later and I still don't get as much time in the pool as I would like but I average about 2 swims per week and about 2000yds per session, I have gotten my comfortable pace down to roughly 1:50 - 1:55 / 100yds now. That would be my HIM distance pace. For a sprint I think I could probably get to about 1:45 ish. The 2nd video is from this morning and checking the time on the video I would say I was avg'ing about 1:35 / 100yds which is quicker than race pace but its about what I like to do on my short sets, anything under 100yds when training. Sorry if the angle isn't the greatest on the video. Feel free to fire away with comments or suggestions. Thanks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEjlgtjJ3Zg- video from February last year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUFEFZoEGEs- video from today



Edited by spiderjunior 2014-08-15 8:12 AM


2014-08-15 8:48 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
The difference in the two videos is dramatic, you've improved significantly, congratulations!

Your turnover rate varies a fair amount, you start out slower than you finish, and keeping a steady rhythm is key. The other thing I see is your SPL is 21 on the way back (way out is cut off), which being a little on the high side made me look closer at your distance per stroke. It's difficult to see too much above water, but based on the angle of your arm coming out of the water and the velocity of your pull, it looks like the symptom is that you're not getting as much mileage from your pull as you could. I though I saw you both 1) finishing your stroke too early (again, hard to tell), and it also looks like 2) your hand is pulling almost under your body as opposed to 'on the rails'. That being said as you alluded to, 4000 yards a week is not a lot of time at all, and nowhere near the time needed to ingrain a better stroke. That's low even for *maintaining* a good stroke, let alone improvement.
2014-08-15 9:34 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior


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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos

Congrats on the real progress!

 

Curious as to how much you attribute your speed gain to technique (specifically , streamlining) vs propulsive power?

 

I'm not a swim expert, but the noteable difference I see is mostly the power and better cadence of the pull - in fact, to me most of the better body position , head position, and leg streamlining looks more of a function of the significantly higher speed (which makes it easier to hold such position).

2014-08-15 9:57 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos

Well, that's pretty dramatic...video 1 vs 2. 

You weren't grabbing any water in video 1 but it looks like you're doing a better job currently.  I noticed that your feet were pointing pretty much straight down in the first video...it looks like you've improved your ankle flexibility a bit since then. 

From my perspective, it looks like you have a pretty deep pull...that's pretty taxing.  I would relook at some EVF (early vertical forearm) technique videos and work on keeping the elbow a bit higher.  Currently, I'm experimenting to find the sweet spot in my pull depth that grabs alot of water and allows for a quick turnover. Too shallow=quick turnover but can't grab enough water...too deep=taxing, slow turnover but grab the water better. 

My other issue (and I saw it in your first video) is pulling too wide.  My coach told me to pull straight back and slightly under my body to correct the wide pull. Shelia Taormina demonstrates this pretty well in her book.

You had some nice improvements thus far ... keep it up!

2014-08-15 10:06 AM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
Originally posted by fisherman76
it looks like the symptom is that you're not getting as much mileage from your pull as you could. I though I saw you both 1) finishing your stroke too early (again, hard to tell), and it also looks like 2) your hand is pulling almost under your body as opposed to 'on the rails'. That being said as you alluded to, 4000 yards a week is not a lot of time at all, and nowhere near the time needed to ingrain a better stroke. That's low even for *maintaining* a good stroke, let alone improvement.


Fisherman, I agree completely with you assessment of my pull. Watching the video back It looks like my forearm is slipping. I have a way better "feel" for the water now then I had a year ago, but I still do not fully feel that my catch is anchored properly. Also, as you noted, my hand absolutely slides underneath my body quite often. My best way to explain it is that I think my arm looks kind of like this symbol < if that makes sense. My elbow drops and for instance the fingers on my right hand are not pointing straight down, they are pointing probably 3 to 4 feet to the left of my body . I notice it, but my muscle memory keeps bringing me back to that point. Will work on it.

Originally posted by yazmaster

Congrats on the real progress!

Curious as to how much you attribute your speed gain to technique (specifically , streamlining) vs propulsive power?

I'm not a swim expert, but the noteable difference I see is mostly the power and better cadence of the pull - in fact, to me most of the better body position , head position, and leg streamlining looks more of a function of the significantly higher speed (which makes it easier to hold such position).




Yaz, when I first started swimming I got very uncomfortable when my breathing started to increase to anything above what you might have during a brisk walk. To keep my breathing that light, I really had to go slow. Once I got a better feel for the water, I no longer was worried about my breathing and thus I was able to increase my intensity. A quicker cadence and harder effort on my pull was about 90% of my gain. I can tell looking at the two videos that my body appears to be longer and my legs are much more under control. I think you nailed it when you said my steamlining is more of a results of my increased speed.

Thanks to both of you for responding. I can never learn enough. I plan to ramp up my yardage this winter. Just not enough time in the day right now to run, bike and still get the high volume of swim time in
2014-08-15 11:17 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior


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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos

Thx for the response. 

 

I'm on a swim-focus block right now and it's taking me a lot of volume to improve, but it's definitely working. I actually have homebrewed self videos (nowhere near as clear as yours!) from my 2:00+/100 pace vs my sub 1:30/100 T-pace now, and it actually looks very similar to yours.  

 

I actually had the same experience with you at these paces - once I was under about 2:00/100 yards (not meters), 90+% of my improvement was from cadence and power related gains, and not from streamlining. Whereas when I was 2:30-2:00/100, it was pretty much 90% streamlining (eliminating a terrible overrotation for me.)

 

Even now, if I intentionally slow myself to 2:00+/100 like your first video, I actually don't look a ton different than you do in that original video - I just don't think you can achieve regular rhythm, fluidity, and get a good catch at those speeds, or so arm-power limited.



2014-08-15 11:53 AM
in reply to: spiderjunior

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
Originally posted by spiderjunior
Fisherman, I agree completely with you assessment of my pull. Watching the video back It looks like my forearm is slipping. I have a way better "feel" for the water now then I had a year ago, but I still do not fully feel that my catch is anchored properly. Also, as you noted, my hand absolutely slides underneath my body quite often. My best way to explain it is that I think my arm looks kind of like this symbol < if that makes sense. My elbow drops and for instance the fingers on my right hand are not pointing straight down, they are pointing probably 3 to 4 feet to the left of my body . I notice it, but my muscle memory keeps bringing me back to that point. Will work on it.


Makes sense. When you're working on it, careful not to over-flatten yourself, as I noticed your stroke has less roll in it now than it did. You should pull down the rails on the side of your body, but not with a flatter back. Quite the opposite - in order to full engage your deltoid, your pull serves as *part* of your rotation, so by the time you're finished on one side you are full rotated to the other. With too flat a stroke, or a point in your stroke with no roll, you're really just shredding your shoulder and providing little power. It's called a 'pull' but it really feels more like a 'push'. The more you get that feeling in there, the easier it will be to slot your arm and hand position - you'll simply be going for the biggest 'hold' on the water to 'push'.
2014-08-15 12:13 PM
in reply to: fisherman76

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
What a great thread! I believe I found the answer to my issue I've been struggling with in my swimming. I think my pull is too long and not "on the rails" so I am expending a lot more energy (arms feel more tired). I will try to upload a video of my current state to get any feedback others would have but the trouble is finding someone to video it and I'll have to get into the poolside lane, which is often crammed with little ones for some reason.
2014-08-15 12:45 PM
in reply to: ChemNerd23

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
you need an underwater-compatible video camera with a soap dish that has suction cups on the back. The camera can be had for less than $100 (probably far less? even this? http://www.amazon.com/Vivitar-690HD-Waterproof-Digital-Camcorder/dp... and the soap dish for $3 at Wal Mart. Mount it to the wall, record, swim, and feast on the video later.
2014-08-16 10:11 AM
in reply to: JoelO

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
Originally posted by JoelO

it looks like you have a pretty deep pull...that's pretty taxing.  I would relook at some EVF (early vertical forearm) technique videos and work on keeping the elbow a bit higher. Shelia Taormina demonstrates this pretty well in her book.


Joel, thanks for the response. Yep, I definitely see my deep pull. Another thing that seems to have been ingrained in my stroke from months of self teaching and what I thought "felt" correct. Been working on the elbow but still need to bring it up even more. BTW, I have Shelia's book on my desk at work and refer to it often. thanks
2014-08-23 11:06 PM
in reply to: Swimaway

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
I bought a GoPro, which means it's time to post some swim videos.

I've been swimming for a little over a year. Typical pace is around 1:45 / 100 for 400+ yard swims. Best 100y is 1:26. This video is a 50y swim with no warmup and about the best form I can manage. Still learning how to use the GoPro so legs are cut off a little.

Regular version
http://youtu.be/vKsvwEihchM

50% slowmo version
http://youtu.be/L49wyDXfQxw



2014-09-01 4:03 PM
in reply to: pnwdan

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Subject: RE: Swimming Help - Post your videos
This topic is too good to be on page 5 *bump*
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