General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Recommend an advanced half marathon plan? Rss Feed  
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2014-06-09 10:54 AM

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Subject: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

Howdy! I'm shooting for a half marathon PR in Philly this November. Any recommendations for a good plan? (Or if not, I'll take some general advice like -- what my longest run should be, interval workout suggestions?).

In the past, I've followed the FIRST three runs a week plan, which got me to a 1:37:28 two years ago. I did Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathon 18/55 plan this year for Boston and I'm really digging the extra miles (what's become of me??). So I'm looking for something similar for a half. Any recommendations?

Thanks!



2014-06-09 12:08 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

You could try out Daniel's 10k program and scale it to fit a HM. 

2014-06-09 3:22 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

I used Jeff Galloway's plan for my first HM a few years ago, but didn't feel three runs/week was enough. Switched to Hal Higdon's plans based on four runs per week and have done a lot better with it.  Have had fewer injuries, even while logging higher volume.  I still do a run/walk on my weekly long runs which aids my recovery time.

Mark

2014-06-09 6:23 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

There's also Hal Higdon's or maybe even using Runners World Smartcoach training plan maker.

2014-06-09 8:19 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
I have been using and really enjoy the simplicity of the BarryP plan. For an important HM I'd scale up mileage from wherever I'm at to a 4/8/12 plan. Earlier this year I was essentially doing 3/6/9 but cutting out one of the short runs along with bike and swim training and felt my run mileage was sufficient for a very hilly offroad Half.
2014-06-09 8:52 PM
in reply to: JZig

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
I've used the Hal Higdon plans and they worked well for me.


2014-06-10 9:39 AM
in reply to: b2run

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
x2 on Hal Higdon plans.
I've used them, up to a marathon, and they worked great.
2014-06-10 11:45 AM
in reply to: d00d

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

Cool, I've looked at Higdon's plans before and I've had friends use them for marathons, but never used them myself. Good to hear they come recommended!

The advanced schedule looks pretty good actually. Think I'll check that out! Thanks!

2014-06-10 12:17 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

Higdon plans are very good.

BUT since you have already used Pfitz, (Which is already intended to be modified) why not use that plan for a half marathon.

Most of the plans include tuneup races, Tempo (HM and 15k Pace runs) as well as a good bit of V02Max Intervals, it seems to me that it also makes a good HM plan.

I personally have not done an HM as an A race in a long time but do them regularly as tuneups for marathons. Since I regularly follow Pfitz, it would seem that I have already done what I am suggesting. (I am NOT disappointed in my HM Personal Best) I have 2 or 3 HMs planned as tuneups for the Fall Marathon Season and I think I will be in PR Shape.

2014-06-10 1:53 PM
in reply to: WaterDog66

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
I used the Hanson's Advanced Half Marathon plan last fall for a PR in the Detroit HM. Its a 6 day a week running plan. Speed/Strength run workouts on Tuesday and tempo workouts on Thursday. Sunday is long run with an intermediate run on Saturdays. Shorter runs on Monday and Friday. I'm using it again this fall.

Link: http://hansonscoachingservices.com/coaching-items/half-marathon-pro...

Description: This program is for those runners who have run races of a variety of distances, including the half marathon. The program focuses on a steady buildup of mileage, peaking at around 55 miles/week and a concentration of half marathon specific type workouts. This is an 18 week training schedule.

2014-06-11 10:23 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

Originally posted by WaterDog66

Higdon plans are very good.

BUT since you have already used Pfitz, (Which is already intended to be modified) why not use that plan for a half marathon.

Most of the plans include tuneup races, Tempo (HM and 15k Pace runs) as well as a good bit of V02Max Intervals, it seems to me that it also makes a good HM plan.

I personally have not done an HM as an A race in a long time but do them regularly as tuneups for marathons. Since I regularly follow Pfitz, it would seem that I have already done what I am suggesting. (I am NOT disappointed in my HM Personal Best) I have 2 or 3 HMs planned as tuneups for the Fall Marathon Season and I think I will be in PR Shape.

I considered this, but wasn't sure what distance to make my longest run. Or really how many miles a week seems reasonable for a HM PR. Thinking about topping out around 15-17 miles for my longest runs. Does that sound about right?

 



Edited by swishyskirt 2014-06-11 10:24 AM


2014-06-11 11:22 AM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

Originally posted by swishyskirt

I considered this, but wasn't sure what distance to make my longest run. Or really how many miles a week seems reasonable for a HM PR. Thinking about topping out around 15-17 miles for my longest runs. Does that sound about right?



It does to me.

In the lead up to Long Beach Marathon last year my longest run was 16 miles. (With a 1 mile swim at the half way point) Pete's plans are meant to be modified and I found that as long as I keep the general structure in place and follow a few principles, it works well. (Recovery Days, Cutback weeks etc.)

2014-06-11 8:57 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
Half marathon is still very much an endurance event. The main difference with the marathon is that you don't have to worry about running out of glycogen reserves and all the attendant fun. So I think that the best HM plan is pretty similar to a marathon plan, minus the things that prepare you to be an efficient fat-burner (longest runs).

I have run my best HMs when preparing for full marathons. Heck, I even run by best times at 5k-10k when I'm doing marathon training. If I was not in marathon training and wanted to target a HM, I think I would go for a modified BarryP plan (lots of steady running, with some mixing up of paces), with a long run of 15-16 miles. You'd be fine on a LR of 12-13, but I think it's worthwhile to do some over distance work when preparing for HM.

Remember: it's not rocket science. Run lots, be light, and don't be injured. The rest is icing.

Good luck.
2014-06-12 6:39 AM
in reply to: colinphillips

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
I have used the Pfitz 18-55 plan for a half, just topping the long run out at 16 miles, with good results. I think trishie used and liked the Higdon advanced plan, IIRC.
2014-09-18 10:31 AM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

To re-bump briefly -- so I've settled on doing a modified Pfitz 18/55 plan (into a 12/45 plan) for my half, with my long runs topping at 16. I'm feeling pretty good. Just curious what I do about my pacing for each workout.

For the "marathon pace" runs...do I change that to "half marathon pace" runs? There are a couple of long runs where the latter half is done at marathon race pace, which is obviously slower than my half pace. The only HM pace runs he suggests are mid-week LT runs (eg. 10 LT w/5 @ HM pace), but like I said, I'm modifying this into a half marathon training plan.

What should I do? Run the marathon paced runs at marathon pace as if I were training for a marathon? Or drop down to (ugh) half marathon race pace? Seems rough to be doing long runs quite that fast (7:20s)...

And then for the other paces, everything is based off of what your marathon goal pace is -- with long runs being done at 15-20% slower than MP...again, do I change that to HM pace percentages?

Thanks for the guidance!

2014-09-18 11:49 AM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?

No exact guidance for you, but some things I would think about if it were me.

SinceI'm cutting the volume of the plan, I think changing the MP runs to HM runs makes sense.  But because the pace is faster, I'd probably not want to do it for the same duration.  Maybe 15(total)/12(pace) becomes 10/6 and 17/14 becomes 12/7--or something like that.  Similarly, I would up the pace to 10k-ish for the midweek runs (from the HM pace), but cut back on the distance run that pace (eg, instead of 6 at HM pace, run 3-4 at 10k pace).  Most other running should be 'easy', so using the same 15-20% slower than MP as guidance makes sense.



2014-09-18 9:13 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
I don't think there is much benefit from running marathon pace if you are training for a marathon. Marathon pace tends to be a very inefficient training pace (kind of that no-man's land pace-- too fast to be easy, too slow to be tempo) and is only in marathon plans for race specificity.

I don't know off-hand how long the marathon-pace runs are in the Pfitz program, but in my opinion you should be doing half-marathon-paced tempos of up to 6-7 miles (plus warmup and cooldown).
2014-09-18 9:21 PM
in reply to: swishyskirt

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Subject: RE: Recommend an advanced half marathon plan?
Swishy -- I like your original suggestion, and wouldn't worry too much about pushing from marathon pace to half marathon pace. As I wrote earlier in the thread, I've done my best runs at 10M - HM when in the middle of marathon training, and I've never felt that I was running out of speed for the 10/HM races. For me, marathon pace runs are already fairly aggressively paced, but not hard to recover from. HM pace runs are getting to be too fast, and they take longer to recover from. (In fact, I haven't managed to run as fast as my HM pace for more than a mile or so in training in the past couple of years. I'd be inclined to avoid overthinking it. Run lots, be light, stay uninjured, and you'll do well. (I wish I could manage all three of those right now.)
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