Run Faster (Page 2)

I have no problem with any of that.  My problem is the same as always....the tired and worn out "just run more" in order to get faster.  Well....sure!  Of course that works.  But you won't get FAST.   Hell, that 29:00 5K that is now 28:15 because you "ran more" is great....you ran faster, but you didn't really get any faster.  To get faster at running you need to run fast.

Relative benefits of speed work vs. mileage?  Faster with less miles on your legs.  Are different types of runners better suited to different approaches?  YES!!  Which is my point.  "Just run more" is dumb advice when someone asks how to get faster......and you can use the "these middle aged people on this board, blah,blah,blah....".....but the fact is, the question on how to get faster constantly comes up. 

I would argue, collin, that you are one of those who is stuck on what works for you only....it's just wrong.  I can say it's wrong because I see the results of speed work......and then I see the results of LOTS of speedwork.  I will grant you that age makes a difference between the LOTS.....but I will not grant you the idea that speedwork is not a better option for many people to get faster.

Originally posted by Nvmiller I need help... I can't seem to get faster on my runs. I would say my average is 10 min miles and once I start training towards 9 mins I always get injured (shine splints, IT Band issues, etc). I follow a training plan and I dont think I'm pushing myself too much. I just don't know what to do. Also, I can't seem to run the entire time. I walk after about 2 miles each time which kills my time. Nina

Nina, I don't have any idea where you stand in terms of run fitness or base, but I can tell you that consistency has been helpful for me. During those times where I am running 2-3 times a week (like now), I am "less fast" then when I am averaging 5-6 runs a week. When I carefully up my volume, I see speed increase. Since you seem to feel stuck in the 10 min area, were I you, I'd start running more often if possible.

A wise woman once told me that if I wanted to improve my 5K time, I should train for a marathon.  Simply put, start with base, carefully add volume, then later start to look at more focused training like speed work.

Nina, I would highly recommend checking out Daniels Running Formula.  It's available on Kindle as well as paperback.  We had a long discussion form in the Challenges section if you want to read through that.   Grossly simplified, he uses a 24-week training plan:

6 weeks "base building", all EZ runs with some quick strides
6 weeks developing neuro-muscular speed (with reps below your 5K race pace, but pretty limited)
6 weeks developing VO2 max through intervals of 3-5 minutes around 5K race pace
6 weeks of race season peaking with your A race

You also do tempo runs (@ roughly your 10K race pace) throughout the plan.

I think someone else above also mentioned Shane's running challenge forum...also highly recommended.

I somehow agree with just about all of the posts above, even though that may seem conflicting.  I feel once you have a strong base (i.e. solid mpw over a period of time) created by being consistent (i.e. running often), introducing "speed" work (i.e. threshold, VO2 max, and neuro-muscular runs) will get you faster.

For those like you, some speedwork might help (if you have an interest in dialing back up to 10--not everyone does).  That, or simply racing more.  Racing is awfully good training.

So.....go fast more? 

Originally posted by Brian W

Originally posted by Nvmiller I need help... I can't seem to get faster on my runs. I would say my average is 10 min miles and once I start training towards 9 mins I always get injured (shine splints, IT Band issues, etc). I follow a training plan and I dont think I'm pushing myself too much. I just don't know what to do. Also, I can't seem to run the entire time. I walk after about 2 miles each time which kills my time. Nina

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned your form yet. If you're only having this problem at higher paces i would ask that you look deeply into your stride mechanics. Are you landing forefoot or are you a heel striker? Once your entire foot is "engaged" with the ground is your center of mass in front or behind your knees. Where is your knee in relation to that foot? From what I've seen people tend have issues if they push for higher speed while carrying their bad habits or poor form with them. Try video taping yourself and slowly going through the video, it will most likely be very informative. Bad form + A Speed faster than you can comfortably run today = Definite Injury

Yep....bad habits and poor form that was developed by running slow all the time.

Bad running form is the hallmark of slow running. Show me someone running 10-12 minute mile pace and I'll show you someone with poor form. In fact, you can't run that slow with a good forward lean, good arm swing, and good knee drive. Running fast developes good run form.  Doing drills helps hone that form.  Running slow does NOTHING to help run form, but it will help develope bad habits and the inability to reach your speed potential. 

Slow running isn't necessarily a key to anything.  Easy running is a different story.  I'm talking about people who's "fast" is over 10:00 miles no matter how much running they do.... bad form.  Running, like any athletic endeavor, needs to be practiced to be done well.  There is quite a bit of practice that doesn't include going for a run. Most people completely miss that.  They will practice swimming, they will even do one legged drills, etc. on a bike, or practice handling skills....and then they just go run like they will magically get better at it just by running.  There is a very large percentage of people for which that won't work......all they do is run more, they don't get better or faster at running.

Big caveat for LB's kids - they might not run 30mpw, but they do serious bike training that definitely adds 'volume' to the legs, which counts to a large degree for running equivalent endurance load.

A triathlete running 30mpw but with significant bike training (often more volume than the run training) is definitely a good amount of volume, and speedwork on the run is definitely on the menu.

However, a pure runner running <30mpw with no bike training is a totally different situation. You can still run pretty fast if you've got great genetics, but you're leaving a lot on the table with that low run training volume. 

To date Jr. has biked 830 miles, ran 340 miles, and swam 450,000 yards. (40 mpw biking, 15 mpw running on avg.).  None of those totals would remotely be considered "serious" training for any single discipline.  What he does is VERY focused workouts, and a very large percentage of them contain very fast intervals.  You'd likely be surprised at how little time he actually spends biking or running.....because it's done fast.  He also races ALOT.  Between 400, 800, mile and 2 mile he probably lined up 40-50 times, maybe 50 times on the starting blocks of a swim race, and TT's an crits on the bike.....and of course triathlon.

It's not how I trained when I started, and it's nothing close to what most believe is needed for the results he's had.....but he just doesn't train slow ever......easy sometimes.....never slow.  The results are hard to argue with. 

FWIW - he would argue vehemently with you over the biggest benefit to his biking and running.  He gives major props to the 2-3000 yard kick sets he does weekly.

Bro.....it's the 4th....you don't have beer?  Seriously? 

Come on over I'll hook ya up!