login
USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations
-
No new posts
|
 2014-07-23 12:32 PM |
Expert  2355    Madison, Wisconsin |  Subject: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race ObservationsThis past weekend I attended the USAT officials clinic to earn my CAT 5 license. The clinic itself was 3 hours long and prepared me well for the race on Sunday. I just wanted to post here about a few observations I had on my own and with athletes on Sunday that may further help you in the future with races that are supplied with USAT officials. - I wrote up 10 penalties, only 4 were accepted by the head referee. We need very detailed information on a penalty for it to be accepted. SImply writing #555 was caught drafting will not hold up. - Many athletes were legally riding/passing but were worried when an official would come up on a moto and then commit a penalty, usually drafting as they were attempting for a pass and entered the draft zone but exited through the rear which constitutes as a drafting penalty. - As an official we CANNOT talk to you DURING the race, we are simply observing - Just because we are looking at you, or writing by you does to mean you committed a penalty or that you will be given a penalty, carry on with your race - If you received a penalty read the rule book first, or the rules that are usually posted right by the penalty report, usually this will solve any questions. If you have any questions or want to respond to this let me know. It was an eye-opening experience to say the least that I learned a lot from and took plenty away with. Looking forward to advance my license in the near future. |
| 2014-07-23 10:49 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| , Illinois | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? |
| 2014-07-24 7:30 AM in reply to: ec1974 |
754 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them? |
| 2014-07-24 8:08 AM in reply to: happyscientist |
Expert 1224 Is this Heaven? No, it's Iowa. | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
|
| 2014-07-24 8:28 AM in reply to: ec1974 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations You are required to ride right and pass left in almost all triathlons. Failure to do so may result in a penalty due to positional foul. As for passing, once you enter the draft zone of another rider, you are required to complete the pass in the allotted time; if you try to pass, fail and drop back you may be penalized as well. Shane |
| 2014-07-24 8:34 AM in reply to: happyscientist |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations If someone swerves in front of you after you are in their draft zone and you drop back to avoid a collision, I wouldn't expect you would be penalized but they should receive a penalty. As to someone hugging the yellow line, what I would do is yell for them to get over and if they failed, I would check for an official. If there was on present I would point out the obvious foul at which point the athlete should be shown a yellow card. If they continue to hug the line then the official should instruct them to ride right (IMO - when I was certified through TriCan, there was no instruction to not communicate). If there was no official, assuming it was safe to do so, I would pass right, risking the position foul and carry on from there. Shane |
| 2014-07-24 8:47 AM in reply to: siouxcityhawk |
| 754 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by siouxcityhawk Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. |
| 2014-07-24 8:54 AM in reply to: happyscientist |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark |
| 2014-07-24 12:20 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. |
| 2014-07-24 12:52 PM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
|
| 2014-07-24 1:29 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
I agree that passing on the left is the correct thing to do and is what the rule state, but seriously, there are times that folks are hugging the left and won't move. So what are you supposed to do? There are times that the road is very crowded, esp with wave start races, and the safest thing to do is pass on the right. You've never encountered that before? Most folks ride right as they are supposed to do, but not everybody does. So, sometimes passing on the right, if you clearly let the person know beforehand(!), is, imho, key. I think this is a much lesser sin that passing on the left, across the double yellow...which also happens all the time. But to you point about rules and things...do you always drive the speed limit? There are rules, and then there are rules. |
| 2014-07-24 1:39 PM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
Veteran 576 Maple Grove | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I agree that passing on the left is the correct thing to do and is what the rule state, but seriously, there are times that folks are hugging the left and won't move. So what are you supposed to do? There are times that the road is very crowded, esp with wave start races, and the safest thing to do is pass on the right. You've never encountered that before? Most folks ride right as they are supposed to do, but not everybody does. So, sometimes passing on the right, if you clearly let the person know beforehand(!), is, imho, key. I think this is a much lesser sin that passing on the left, across the double yellow...which also happens all the time. But to you point about rules and things...do you always drive the speed limit? There are rules, and then there are rules. Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
I'm 100% with this. There is a wave start tri locally dubbed as "beginner friendly" that has people all over the lane on the bike course. Some of them seem to think its a group ride, riding in what looks at times like a peleton, just at a casual pace. Some of these people move when called out, others simply don't move, thinking they have the right to block everyone behind them (that's against the rules as well). I pass when and where it is safe to do so. i slow down to give people the opportunity to move to the right. But if they're not moving over, then I will. |
| 2014-07-24 1:57 PM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I agree that passing on the left is the correct thing to do and is what the rule state, but seriously, there are times that folks are hugging the left and won't move. So what are you supposed to do? There are times that the road is very crowded, esp with wave start races, and the safest thing to do is pass on the right. You've never encountered that before? Most folks ride right as they are supposed to do, but not everybody does. So, sometimes passing on the right, if you clearly let the person know beforehand(!), is, imho, key. I think this is a much lesser sin that passing on the left, across the double yellow...which also happens all the time. But to you point about rules and things...do you always drive the speed limit? There are rules, and then there are rules. Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
Nice sense of entitlement that you have where you think you can pick and chose which rules you want to follow. Mark
|
| 2014-07-24 2:13 PM in reply to: rdailey1 |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by rdailey1 Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I agree that passing on the left is the correct thing to do and is what the rule state, but seriously, there are times that folks are hugging the left and won't move. So what are you supposed to do? There are times that the road is very crowded, esp with wave start races, and the safest thing to do is pass on the right. You've never encountered that before? Most folks ride right as they are supposed to do, but not everybody does. So, sometimes passing on the right, if you clearly let the person know beforehand(!), is, imho, key. I think this is a much lesser sin that passing on the left, across the double yellow...which also happens all the time. But to you point about rules and things...do you always drive the speed limit? There are rules, and then there are rules. Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
I'm 100% with this. There is a wave start tri locally dubbed as "beginner friendly" that has people all over the lane on the bike course. Some of them seem to think its a group ride, riding in what looks at times like a peleton, just at a casual pace. Some of these people move when called out, others simply don't move, thinking they have the right to block everyone behind them (that's against the rules as well). I pass when and where it is safe to do so. i slow down to give people the opportunity to move to the right. But if they're not moving over, then I will. I lay what you describe back on the RD, who should make sure that everyone who's competing, especially first-timers, know the "rules of the road" so they don't hinder, or worse, pose a danger to other "serious" competitors. I would also wonder how the newbies ended up ahead of the faster competitors in the first place. Was it a multi-lap bike course? In the races I've done where they have a first-timer's category, they normally start in the last wave just to make sure that they don't get in the way. One of the biggest problems that I see is that even a lot of "experienced" triathletes have never even bothered to read the USAT rules and just do their own interpretations what they "think" they are. Mark
|
| 2014-07-24 2:20 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by rdailey1 Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I agree that passing on the left is the correct thing to do and is what the rule state, but seriously, there are times that folks are hugging the left and won't move. So what are you supposed to do? There are times that the road is very crowded, esp with wave start races, and the safest thing to do is pass on the right. You've never encountered that before? Most folks ride right as they are supposed to do, but not everybody does. So, sometimes passing on the right, if you clearly let the person know beforehand(!), is, imho, key. I think this is a much lesser sin that passing on the left, across the double yellow...which also happens all the time. But to you point about rules and things...do you always drive the speed limit? There are rules, and then there are rules. Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
I'm 100% with this. There is a wave start tri locally dubbed as "beginner friendly" that has people all over the lane on the bike course. Some of them seem to think its a group ride, riding in what looks at times like a peleton, just at a casual pace. Some of these people move when called out, others simply don't move, thinking they have the right to block everyone behind them (that's against the rules as well). I pass when and where it is safe to do so. i slow down to give people the opportunity to move to the right. But if they're not moving over, then I will. I lay what you describe back on the RD, who should make sure that everyone who's competing, especially first-timers, know the "rules of the road" so they don't hinder, or worse, pose a danger to other "serious" competitors. I would also wonder how the newbies ended up ahead of the faster competitors in the first place. Was it a multi-lap bike course? In the races I've done where they have a first-timer's category, they normally start in the last wave just to make sure that they don't get in the way. One of the biggest problems that I see is that even a lot of "experienced" triathletes have never even bothered to read the USAT rules and just do their own interpretations what they "think" they are. Mark
There are athlete meetings for a reason, mainly to go over the rules of the race. Weird how when athletes get penalties and the first question asked is "Did you go to the meeting?" they respond with a no. As for the waves, well RD's have permits for only so long in the day. By pushing the beginners or slower competitors at the end, lengthens the time the course needs to be open and that usually cannot happen with the race permits. |
| 2014-07-24 2:43 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| 754 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
So what do you do if someone will not move over? Especially if the course is out-and-back, crossing the yellow line is dangerous. Am I supposed to stop and have a picnic because someone wants to ride at 12 mph on the far left? Even if I weren't a slow swimmer, women 40+ almost always go out in the last wave. There have been races where I pass people who started 3 waves ahead of me when I got on the bike, especially if it is a hilly course. Your solution seems to be to just sit back there all day and wait, not caring about my time. Often, there aren't race officials around to give a yellow card. |
| 2014-07-24 2:47 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
So what do you do if someone will not move over? Especially if the course is out-and-back, crossing the yellow line is dangerous. Am I supposed to stop and have a picnic because someone wants to ride at 12 mph on the far left? Even if I weren't a slow swimmer, women 40+ almost always go out in the last wave. There have been races where I pass people who started 3 waves ahead of me when I got on the bike, especially if it is a hilly course. Your solution seems to be to just sit back there all day and wait, not caring about my time. Often, there aren't race officials around to give a yellow card. USAT officials don't give yellow cards. |
| 2014-07-24 2:55 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
So what do you do if someone will not move over? Especially if the course is out-and-back, crossing the yellow line is dangerous. Am I supposed to stop and have a picnic because someone wants to ride at 12 mph on the far left? Even if I weren't a slow swimmer, women 40+ almost always go out in the last wave. There have been races where I pass people who started 3 waves ahead of me when I got on the bike, especially if it is a hilly course. Your solution seems to be to just sit back there all day and wait, not caring about my time. Often, there aren't race officials around to give a yellow card. Just read through everything for the first time. Remember rules are in place for fairness and safety. For the passing on the right, in such a case as noted above, it is up to the officials discretion of the pass is made on the right with no other option and in a safe manner. This weekend I wrote up an athlete for crossing the centerline. It wasn't accepted because it was simply a mistake by the cyclist and not intentional (meaning he corrected immediately), also it was in a safe area where traffic ahead can be seen and he was in no danger. Rules are rules, but all rules are ups or discretion given the situation. |
| 2014-07-24 3:03 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
Member 388 Miami | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by bcagle25 - Just because we are looking at you, or writing by you does to mean you committed a penalty or that you will be given a penalty, carry on with your race Good point. In one of my races a ref motor vehicle pulled near me, stayed there for a few seconds and I saw the ref writing down stuff. I just passed another athlete and I started thinking about how to challenge the penalty I thought I got. The pass was clear, but maybe he didn't see that way?? I couldn't stop thinking about it. When I finished the race, I went to check my time and ready to talk to the head referee. Turns out, I didn't have a penalty... Since that happened to me, I just do my race. |
| 2014-07-24 3:14 PM in reply to: bcagle25 |
| 1055 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Absolutely I've passed people on the right. Heck, I don't even go through the 'on your left' routine. If your hugging the left side, I'm going to pass you on the right without word or incident. The last thing I want to do is yell at them and cause them to react. Cause if one thing is true more than anything else. . . when you say on your left, people react in about a dozen different ways and only one of those reactions is predictable. |
| 2014-07-24 4:04 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by RedCorvette So what do you do if someone will not move over? Especially if the course is out-and-back, crossing the yellow line is dangerous. Am I supposed to stop and have a picnic because someone wants to ride at 12 mph on the far left? Even if I weren't a slow swimmer, women 40+ almost always go out in the last wave. There have been races where I pass people who started 3 waves ahead of me when I got on the bike, especially if it is a hilly course. Your solution seems to be to just sit back there all day and wait, not caring about my time. Often, there aren't race officials around to give a yellow card. Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
Nothing personal, but actually I don't care about your time. Obviously most of this would go away if everyone did their best to follow the rules and there were an adequate number of officials to police the willfull violators. But unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and have to make the best of what we have. I truly believe that the USAT has done a good job of drafting the rules and personally I'm going to do my best to follow them. In my personal opinion that's how I can do my part to uphold the integrity of the sport. I've never intentionally broken a rule and I've never passed on the right. If I have to deviate from the rules for safety reasons, then I'm OK with that. But to do so to gain a competitive advantage is not only dangerous, but selfish and self-serving in my viewpoint. I'm sure that everyone who's done triathlons for any period of time has been held up, or lost time due to other competitors. I've never seen a situation where it was intentional, just a lack of situational awareness or lack of knowledge of the rules. That's why I find it ironic that you can criticize others for not following the rules and then use that to justify you doing it. Two wrongs never make a right. Mark
|
| 2014-07-24 4:19 PM in reply to: RedCorvette |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by RedCorvette Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I agree that passing on the left is the correct thing to do and is what the rule state, but seriously, there are times that folks are hugging the left and won't move. So what are you supposed to do? There are times that the road is very crowded, esp with wave start races, and the safest thing to do is pass on the right. You've never encountered that before? Most folks ride right as they are supposed to do, but not everybody does. So, sometimes passing on the right, if you clearly let the person know beforehand(!), is, imho, key. I think this is a much lesser sin that passing on the left, across the double yellow...which also happens all the time. But to you point about rules and things...do you always drive the speed limit? There are rules, and then there are rules. Originally posted by LarchmontTri Originally posted by RedCorvette I would be surprised if folks haven't had to pass on the right before. I know I have at times and I've seen plenty of folks do it. Circumstances on the road don't always go by the book, and that may require passing folks on the right. Passing on the left is best, but I think that as long as folks call out where they're passing and do it safely(!), then it's no big deal. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by siouxcityhawk They get two "On you left"s, followed by "Get the f--- out of the way!" That doesn't always work, though. I have had to pass right on a few occasions (slow swimmer, fast cyclist, so I have a lot of people to pass on the bike). I have found the worst offenders to be people on tribikes who seem to think that because they are aero, I can't possibly be talking to them. Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by ec1974 I'm very much a newbie, Sunday will be my second race and first sanctioned race. I'm not clear on passing on the bike. Your point on passing, does that mean you approach the rider ahead of you but are unable to complete the pass and fall back again? I'm not clear what "exited through the rear" means. Also I understand, for safety, that you should ride to the right and pass on the left but is it illegal to pass on the right? I was unclear on that, too. I am also wondering about situations where I start to pass someone, they swerve in front of me, and I fall back to avoid hitting them. Does that count as drafting? Can you settle the dispute about what to do if someone is clinging to the yellow line and you need to pass them?
I like to yell "ON YOUR LEFT!!!" If he still doesn't move then I like to yell "GET THE F-CK OVER!!!" Now you could have the issue of pros in the race that do ride on the left side, but chances are "we" are not passing pros. At least, I know I'm not passing a pro.
So you admit to being a rule breaker and dangerous rider. Mark Except it's against the rules, so it is a "big deal". What you "think' doesn't matter. It's one thing if you're taking evasive action to avoid a dangerous situation or an accident. But if you're passing on the right to again a competive advantage when you know it's against the rules, then you're not only willfully endangering yourself but also other competitors who aren't expecting you to be there. The rules aren't there just to make you life more difficult. The intent is to provide a level and safe playing field for all the competitors. Mark
Nice sense of entitlement that you have where you think you can pick and chose which rules you want to follow. Mark
Really? C'mon now, let's be honest here. We all pick and choose to some degree. For example, you always drive the speed limit in your car, right? Never driven more than 30mph in a 30mph zone? Never pushed it on the highway because you're late for something? Really? It's not entitlement - it's just the facts on the ground during a race. If there is no other way to pass and I've tried to do my best to follow the rules, then I will pass safely on the right. No big deal. I'm sure the parable about the man with no sin casting the first stone probably applies here, but for the sake of this thread, let's just agree to disagree. ok? |
| 2014-07-24 4:51 PM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
| 287 | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Is there a rule for "pitching the aid station bottle?" If I receive a bottle at the aid station and have trouble opening it before being able to drinking it, I might be well past the end of the aid station. If I don't have an open bottle space on my bicycle and end up pitching it, is this a penalty? |
| 2014-07-24 6:28 PM in reply to: Billyk |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by Billyk Is there a rule for "pitching the aid station bottle?" If I receive a bottle at the aid station and have trouble opening it before being able to drinking it, I might be well past the end of the aid station. If I don't have an open bottle space on my bicycle and end up pitching it, is this a penalty? It's under littering. If you're past the designated area, then yes, it's a penalty. |
| 2014-07-24 6:46 PM in reply to: LarchmontTri |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: USAT Officials Clinic/First Race Observations Originally posted by LarchmontTri Really? C'mon now, let's be honest here. We all pick and choose to some degree. For example, you always drive the speed limit in your car, right? Never driven more than 30mph in a 30mph zone? Never pushed it on the highway because you're late for something? Really? It's not entitlement - it's just the facts on the ground during a race. If there is no other way to pass and I've tried to do my best to follow the rules, then I will pass safely on the right. No big deal. I'm sure the parable about the man with no sin casting the first stone probably applies here, but for the sake of this thread, let's just agree to disagree. ok? In spite of what some may say, the rules may be strong, but are not quite absolute. Shane is TriCan Certified and tends to know USAT fairly well. Ben Cagle just went through the USAT part and has explained on the discretion allowed in enforcing this. Ben might be able to help remember the head USAT guy at Knoxville last year who also gave situations where this is permissible in the official course/rules talk (wasn't Crawford). Charlie Crawford himself has given situations where they will not penalize. Charlie has even written a little something where crossing a double yellow is ok. In all cases, do what you can to follow the letter of the rules first, but they understand that not every situation can be completely accounted for in the rules. And do know that if you don't follow the letter that an official's discretion may not match up with what you believe. |
|
|
|
|
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
|
| |||
|
View profile
Add to friends
Go to training log
Go to race log
Send a message
View album
CONNECT WITH FACEBOOK