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2014-07-28 10:02 AM


439
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nashville, Tennessee
Subject: strength training
What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?


2014-07-28 10:09 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Subject: RE: strength training
When I did some focused strength training I got bigger arms, shoulders and chest. It made me a slower runner.
2014-07-28 10:19 AM
in reply to: ejshowers


439
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nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: strength training
Did you strength train legs too?
2014-07-28 10:23 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2


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Subject: RE: strength training
I just know it's part of my fitness program. For me, though, triathlons are a part of my fitness program too. My goal is health, yours might be a little more oriented towards performance.

I'm already getting...uhm...older.

That's sort of the problem with injury. Nobody has a problem with it, until they have a problem with it. I'm guessing there's a pretty good correlation between age and injury potential. I incorporate the strength training to push back the day when injury could become an issue. I do it to push back the bigger problems that can come with age. Osteoporosis, arthritis and the like. I know it's supposed to help with balance and stamina too. I would assume that the degree of improvement in that area, the payoff is really only significant at older ages.

The one thing that is bunk about strength training is the old "muscle burns more calories more efficiently". While this is measurably true, the degree of muscle mass you have to add to increase that calorie burn is significant, and the additional 'burn' is often less than a handful of crackers and cheese. So yeah, they can measure it, but to some degree it's a drop in the bucket. At least on the surface of it.

As a casual athlete, the biggest measurable plus of my strength training is that for once in my life I have some...uhm...shape...and when the veins are popping in my arms...I feel pretty good about myself. Don't tell anyone, but this weekend when I did a sprint and was feeling good enough that I didn't have to totally concentrate on getting another 30 feet down the road....I was giving my arms just a little bit of imperceptible flex when I saw the camera guy to make my arms look a little better. Yah, I know. Carly Simon could write a song about me. Don't care. I've never looked like I do now. I'm rather proud.
2014-07-28 10:33 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Subject: RE: strength training
Strength training - if done correctly - will have a positive impact on your performance. You don't want to over train and you don't want to be a gorilla in the gym. Focus on core strength training, 2x week max. Plyometrics, mobility improvement, core work, some deadlifts. Your goal is not to bulk up...."beach muscles" are not useful to triathlon, no matter how good they might make you look in a tri suit. Read about the pro's and how they strength train. Mirinda Carfrae just discussed this last week.
2014-07-28 11:29 AM
in reply to: ejshowers

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Subject: RE: strength training
Originally posted by ejshowers

When I did some focused strength training I got bigger arms, shoulders and chest. It made me a slower runner.


If you got bigger arms, chest, and shoulders you were not doing strength training for triathletes and most likely doing the wrong intensities.

If you are doing strength training I would focus on

Increasing poster chain strength
Glute Strength
Hip flexors
Ankle/shoulder mobility



2014-07-28 11:37 AM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Madison, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: strength training
Originally posted by mchadcota2

What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?


See my post above but here is some more information

ONE benefit is to avoid injuries, BUT you need proper strength training. Just doing squats, bench press, lat pulldowns will not really help.

Some key exercises to focus on for triathletes.

RDL's (poster chain)
Split Squats (Glute, quads, hamstrings)
Anterior loaded squats (core work)
Glute Bridges (lots of progressions and loads to use
Turkish Get-Up's

For the amateur triathlete that works in an office job that forces sitting throughout the day you want to "un-do" a lot of what you develop while sitting. That usually means hip extension movements (to combat tight hip flexors), working on glute strength (glutes are weakened when sitting for long periods of time), working on posterior chain strength (slouching in chains develops poor posterior chain strength).

Also don't think of strength training as make you faster, but more efficient in your movements, stronger in your posture which in turn builds better efficiency, and allows you to train better and get more out of your training (strength training is an enhancement to your training)
2014-07-28 12:49 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: strength training
I need to do more strength training. A couple years ago, I was riding hills with some bike racing friends of mine (I don't bike race, but I do like a good training workout). Toward the end of the session, they commented that it looked like I was fading because I didn't have the upper body strength to help my legs power up the hills. I started doing some basic upper body strength training, and it helped not only my riding but my running. My HM time improved by over two minutes without increasing mileage and I wasn't nearly as sore the next day as I had previously been. I do think that having a balanced body helps with endurance. FWIW, I am a 41 yo woman and have to work to maintain upper body strength.

Since I started triathlons, I have a hard time making the time to do strength training, and I use swimming as an excuse for an upper body workout. I really shouldn't do that.
2014-07-28 1:07 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: strength training

Originally posted by bcagle25
Originally posted by mchadcota2 What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?
See my post above but here is some more information ONE benefit is to avoid injuries, BUT you need proper strength training. Just doing squats, bench press, lat pulldowns will not really help. Some key exercises to focus on for triathletes. RDL's (poster chain) Split Squats (Glute, quads, hamstrings) Anterior loaded squats (core work) Glute Bridges (lots of progressions and loads to use Turkish Get-Up's For the amateur triathlete that works in an office job that forces sitting throughout the day you want to "un-do" a lot of what you develop while sitting. That usually means hip extension movements (to combat tight hip flexors), working on glute strength (glutes are weakened when sitting for long periods of time), working on posterior chain strength (slouching in chains develops poor posterior chain strength). Also don't think of strength training as make you faster, but more efficient in your movements, stronger in your posture which in turn builds better efficiency, and allows you to train better and get more out of your training (strength training is an enhancement to your training)

IMO, Ben has shared a lot of good information here.  Especially the bold parts.

I also like to incorporate exercises that have movements in the transverse (rotational) and frontal (side to side) planes as well as exercises that have significant balance components to them.  The first in an effort to develop muscles an movements left underdeveloped by hours of s/b/r, which can contribute to issues such as ITBS.  The second because a better sense of balance can do nothing but help biking and running, and if it can be incorporated into the program without taking away anything else, there is zero time cost to do so.

 

2014-07-28 1:41 PM
in reply to: bcagle25


439
10010010010025
nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: strength training
Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?


See my post above but here is some more information

ONE benefit is to avoid injuries, BUT you need proper strength training. Just doing squats, bench press, lat pulldowns will not really help.

Some key exercises to focus on for triathletes.

RDL's (poster chain)
Split Squats (Glute, quads, hamstrings)
Anterior loaded squats (core work)
Glute Bridges (lots of progressions and loads to use
Turkish Get-Up's

For the amateur triathlete that works in an office job that forces sitting throughout the day you want to "un-do" a lot of what you develop while sitting. That usually means hip extension movements (to combat tight hip flexors), working on glute strength (glutes are weakened when sitting for long periods of time), working on posterior chain strength (slouching in chains develops poor posterior chain strength).

Also don't think of strength training as make you faster, but more efficient in your movements, stronger in your posture which in turn builds better efficiency, and allows you to train better and get more out of your training (strength training is an enhancement to your training)


You say make you more efficient, stronger posture, etc. If this doesn't translate into faster then why should I care about it? And if it does translate into faster, then I'd rather think about strength training as making me faster.
2014-07-28 2:11 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Madison, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: strength training
Originally posted by mchadcota2

Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?


See my post above but here is some more information

ONE benefit is to avoid injuries, BUT you need proper strength training. Just doing squats, bench press, lat pulldowns will not really help.

Some key exercises to focus on for triathletes.

RDL's (poster chain)
Split Squats (Glute, quads, hamstrings)
Anterior loaded squats (core work)
Glute Bridges (lots of progressions and loads to use
Turkish Get-Up's

For the amateur triathlete that works in an office job that forces sitting throughout the day you want to "un-do" a lot of what you develop while sitting. That usually means hip extension movements (to combat tight hip flexors), working on glute strength (glutes are weakened when sitting for long periods of time), working on posterior chain strength (slouching in chains develops poor posterior chain strength).

Also don't think of strength training as make you faster, but more efficient in your movements, stronger in your posture which in turn builds better efficiency, and allows you to train better and get more out of your training (strength training is an enhancement to your training)


You say make you more efficient, stronger posture, etc. If this doesn't translate into faster then why should I care about it? And if it does translate into faster, then I'd rather think about strength training as making me faster.



Efficiency makes you faster, that is what endurance racing is, who can conserve the most energy possible. Great example, watch an IM or even a HIM race. Watch peoples run form slowly deteriorate over time, by the last 5-10 miles many are slouched over and their running form/posture is shot. They have no toe-off, forward lean, core is collapsed, etc. Increasing strength in the posterior chain can HELP remedy this. Also I said that strength training will allow you to get more out of your aerobic training, so really that is not directly making you faster.

If you say strength training makes you faster you leave that up to interpretation and then people will take it as I don't train aerobically I just strength train. That is why I say use it as an enhancement,

Now look at bike fits. Usually you can just slam someone down in the posture and make them more aero, less watts same energy. Now if they can't run off the bike are they really faster? Not if they can't run properly.

Triathletes always want to know what makes them faster, but never look at everything with a 360 degree view and look at all the factors that come into play.


2014-07-28 2:38 PM
in reply to: bcagle25


439
10010010010025
nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: strength training
Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?


See my post above but here is some more information

ONE benefit is to avoid injuries, BUT you need proper strength training. Just doing squats, bench press, lat pulldowns will not really help.

Some key exercises to focus on for triathletes.

RDL's (poster chain)
Split Squats (Glute, quads, hamstrings)
Anterior loaded squats (core work)
Glute Bridges (lots of progressions and loads to use
Turkish Get-Up's

For the amateur triathlete that works in an office job that forces sitting throughout the day you want to "un-do" a lot of what you develop while sitting. That usually means hip extension movements (to combat tight hip flexors), working on glute strength (glutes are weakened when sitting for long periods of time), working on posterior chain strength (slouching in chains develops poor posterior chain strength).

Also don't think of strength training as make you faster, but more efficient in your movements, stronger in your posture which in turn builds better efficiency, and allows you to train better and get more out of your training (strength training is an enhancement to your training)


You say make you more efficient, stronger posture, etc. If this doesn't translate into faster then why should I care about it? And if it does translate into faster, then I'd rather think about strength training as making me faster.



Efficiency makes you faster, that is what endurance racing is, who can conserve the most energy possible. Great example, watch an IM or even a HIM race. Watch peoples run form slowly deteriorate over time, by the last 5-10 miles many are slouched over and their running form/posture is shot. They have no toe-off, forward lean, core is collapsed, etc. Increasing strength in the posterior chain can HELP remedy this. Also I said that strength training will allow you to get more out of your aerobic training, so really that is not directly making you faster.

If you say strength training makes you faster you leave that up to interpretation and then people will take it as I don't train aerobically I just strength train. That is why I say use it as an enhancement,

Now look at bike fits. Usually you can just slam someone down in the posture and make them more aero, less watts same energy. Now if they can't run off the bike are they really faster? Not if they can't run properly.

Triathletes always want to know what makes them faster, but never look at everything with a 360 degree view and look at all the factors that come into play.


Gotcha! So you're saying that strength training when used right with proper endurance training will lead to faster times. Have you or anyone else tried TRX? Very good core workout. Thanks for all your input.
2014-07-28 3:08 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Madison, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: strength training
Originally posted by mchadcota2

Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?


See my post above but here is some more information

ONE benefit is to avoid injuries, BUT you need proper strength training. Just doing squats, bench press, lat pulldowns will not really help.

Some key exercises to focus on for triathletes.

RDL's (poster chain)
Split Squats (Glute, quads, hamstrings)
Anterior loaded squats (core work)
Glute Bridges (lots of progressions and loads to use
Turkish Get-Up's

For the amateur triathlete that works in an office job that forces sitting throughout the day you want to "un-do" a lot of what you develop while sitting. That usually means hip extension movements (to combat tight hip flexors), working on glute strength (glutes are weakened when sitting for long periods of time), working on posterior chain strength (slouching in chains develops poor posterior chain strength).

Also don't think of strength training as make you faster, but more efficient in your movements, stronger in your posture which in turn builds better efficiency, and allows you to train better and get more out of your training (strength training is an enhancement to your training)


You say make you more efficient, stronger posture, etc. If this doesn't translate into faster then why should I care about it? And if it does translate into faster, then I'd rather think about strength training as making me faster.



Efficiency makes you faster, that is what endurance racing is, who can conserve the most energy possible. Great example, watch an IM or even a HIM race. Watch peoples run form slowly deteriorate over time, by the last 5-10 miles many are slouched over and their running form/posture is shot. They have no toe-off, forward lean, core is collapsed, etc. Increasing strength in the posterior chain can HELP remedy this. Also I said that strength training will allow you to get more out of your aerobic training, so really that is not directly making you faster.

If you say strength training makes you faster you leave that up to interpretation and then people will take it as I don't train aerobically I just strength train. That is why I say use it as an enhancement,

Now look at bike fits. Usually you can just slam someone down in the posture and make them more aero, less watts same energy. Now if they can't run off the bike are they really faster? Not if they can't run properly.

Triathletes always want to know what makes them faster, but never look at everything with a 360 degree view and look at all the factors that come into play.


Gotcha! So you're saying that strength training when used right with proper endurance training will lead to faster times. Have you or anyone else tried TRX? Very good core workout. Thanks for all your input.


In essence yes.

TRX is a great core workout, but I typically do not use it in my programming for triathletes (however, my exposure to TRX is minimal and I do use some of their stuff rows, rollouts, etc). I try to engage the core with specific movements that will help strength areas of the body and give the best sport specificity possible. Some of my best core movements for triathletes are:

Front Squats
Anterior/Contralateral loaded split squats
RDL's
Ab Rollouts
Planks (up to a 60 sec max)
2014-07-28 3:18 PM
in reply to: bcagle25


63
2525
Subject: RE: strength training
I'm not a real triathlete, just a person into fitness in variety of formats.

I strength train (read: lift weights) mostly to be stronger and some for the looks. I have always found the "look ma no pecs" look as something I don't want even if it made me faster. I'm sure some extra upper body mass probably impacts my times negatively, but the tradeoff is worth it at my super amateur level where I'm not chasing a podium. Maybe everyone else is just so focused on triathlon, but to those who have other aspirations I think strength training is a great idea.
2014-07-28 3:38 PM
in reply to: bcagle25


439
10010010010025
nashville, Tennessee
Subject: RE: strength training
Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

Originally posted by bcagle25

Originally posted by mchadcota2

What is everyone's opinion of strength training? Has anyone had personal experience with making gains as a result of strength training? I just started doing some strength training(mainly trx training) but everything I read pretty much says strength training is very important to "avoid injuries". My thoughts are I have never had a problem with injuries so I'm not real motivated to do a lot of strength training if that's the only benefit. My common sense tells me it would have to make you a stronger biker n runner, but I can't get a real straight forward answer about it. Do you do it and do you KNOW that its made you a faster triathlete?


See my post above but here is some more information

ONE benefit is to avoid injuries, BUT you need proper strength training. Just doing squats, bench press, lat pulldowns will not really help.

Some key exercises to focus on for triathletes.

RDL's (poster chain)
Split Squats (Glute, quads, hamstrings)
Anterior loaded squats (core work)
Glute Bridges (lots of progressions and loads to use
Turkish Get-Up's

For the amateur triathlete that works in an office job that forces sitting throughout the day you want to "un-do" a lot of what you develop while sitting. That usually means hip extension movements (to combat tight hip flexors), working on glute strength (glutes are weakened when sitting for long periods of time), working on posterior chain strength (slouching in chains develops poor posterior chain strength).

Also don't think of strength training as make you faster, but more efficient in your movements, stronger in your posture which in turn builds better efficiency, and allows you to train better and get more out of your training (strength training is an enhancement to your training)


You say make you more efficient, stronger posture, etc. If this doesn't translate into faster then why should I care about it? And if it does translate into faster, then I'd rather think about strength training as making me faster.



Efficiency makes you faster, that is what endurance racing is, who can conserve the most energy possible. Great example, watch an IM or even a HIM race. Watch peoples run form slowly deteriorate over time, by the last 5-10 miles many are slouched over and their running form/posture is shot. They have no toe-off, forward lean, core is collapsed, etc. Increasing strength in the posterior chain can HELP remedy this. Also I said that strength training will allow you to get more out of your aerobic training, so really that is not directly making you faster.

If you say strength training makes you faster you leave that up to interpretation and then people will take it as I don't train aerobically I just strength train. That is why I say use it as an enhancement,

Now look at bike fits. Usually you can just slam someone down in the posture and make them more aero, less watts same energy. Now if they can't run off the bike are they really faster? Not if they can't run properly.

Triathletes always want to know what makes them faster, but never look at everything with a 360 degree view and look at all the factors that come into play.


Gotcha! So you're saying that strength training when used right with proper endurance training will lead to faster times. Have you or anyone else tried TRX? Very good core workout. Thanks for all your input.


In essence yes.

TRX is a great core workout, but I typically do not use it in my programming for triathletes (however, my exposure to TRX is minimal and I do use some of their stuff rows, rollouts, etc). I try to engage the core with specific movements that will help strength areas of the body and give the best sport specificity possible. Some of my best core movements for triathletes are:

Front Squats
Anterior/Contralateral loaded split squats
RDL's
Ab Rollouts
Planks (up to a 60 sec max)



Thanks for the tips!
2014-07-28 7:22 PM
in reply to: mchadcota2

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Hamilton, IL
Subject: RE: strength training
So, if I have 12 hours a week to train, am I better off with 10 hours of discipline specific + 2 hours of strength, because I have been getting the impression that MOST of the time, spending all 12 hours SBRing would make me faster come race day...


2014-07-28 8:43 PM
in reply to: Danno77

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Subject: RE: strength training

Originally posted by Danno77 So, if I have 12 hours a week to train, am I better off with 10 hours of discipline specific + 2 hours of strength, because I have been getting the impression that MOST of the time, spending all 12 hours SBRing would make me faster come race day...

Ah, that's the rub...It's not that simple...How well are you recovering from that 10 hours of training?  How will adding 2 additional hours of s/b/r affect the chances of developing overuse or imbalance injuries?  At what point is your form breaking down in training and races due to a lack of strong core and stabilizers?  What time of year is it relative to your races?  Etc...

In general, I like to do more strength training with athletes during the off season / out season / transition period (or whatever term you prefer to use for the general fitness phase of training), then decrease the time spent on s/b/r as the months pass and races grow nearer until it's eliminated during race specific build phases.

 

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