General Discussion Triathlon Talk » So how much faster bike . . . Rss Feed  
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2014-07-31 7:33 AM


467
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, Wisconsin
Subject: So how much faster bike . . .

Currently riding a 28 yr/old Centurion Dave Scott Ironman bike with Tange #1 steel frame. Approx 23 lbs, stock wheels with Michelin Krylium clinchers. Bike is a bit oversized for me at 58cm, I should probably be on a 55-56cm. The reach is way too long and with clip on aero bars I am too stretched out. Considering purchasing a Carbon frame bike like Wilier GTS, Fuji Gran Fondo, Scott Solace etc. Partly for correct fit and more comfort, but also could better justify the purchase if indeed it helps me be significantly faster. So, with a CF bike that weighs 5-8lbs less etc how much faster can I expect to be? Many of the courses I ride are moderately hilly: 800-1400 ft. climbing in the 16-17 mile distance with grades up to 10-13%. So far doing Sprint Tris and training rides up to approx.. 40 miles. May do some Oly distance races in the future as well as Metric Centuries. FWIW, I just turned 60, I know that the engine is the most important factor and work hard on that, just wondering if dropping $2K+ will yield significant speed increase. Thanks for any input!


2014-07-31 7:35 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

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Champion
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Knoxville area
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
some

absolutely no way to tell you without (A LOT) more information, and even then it's just guessing.
2014-07-31 8:00 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

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Regular
589
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Wisconsin
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
Rent one for a race, or just ask your LBS if you can take one for a test ride.
2014-07-31 8:08 AM
in reply to: Leegoocrap


467
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
Originally posted by Leegoocrap

some

absolutely no way to tell you without (A LOT) more information, and even then it's just guessing.


FWIW, 1st Sprint bike leg was 17 miles with about 800 ft of climbing and I averaged 18.5mph. Based on additional training I think I'm probably at about 19 or a little faster now on that same route at this point.
2014-07-31 8:46 AM
in reply to: Swimbikeron


467
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
Originally posted by Swimbikeron

Rent one for a race, or just ask your LBS if you can take one for a test ride.


Excellent idea, but not really an option as local shops are small and would likely have to order what I want. However, we'll spend the winter in Florida again this year and might be an option there. But, there aren't any significant hills down there and I think most potential gains will be in climbing.
2014-07-31 8:54 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

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Champion
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Knoxville area
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
once upon a time I read a book that taught me it wasn't about the bike

of course it was a fiction novel...

A better fitting frame is worth some time (that is, your position is) but depending on how good/bad your current position is, it might be negligible. Being carbon doesn't really mean anything... being lighter *can* mean something, but usually only if YOU are already a true climber (that is, sitting on a non-padded chair is painful for you.) and being "worth it" is something each person has to choose.

Just owning a new, sleek bike can make you faster however. Placebo effect is very real and very powerful (otherwise you wouldn't need to control against it in tests)


2014-07-31 9:07 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .

Did my first season of sprint tri's on a steel-framed1972 Schwinn Continental with toe clips.  Went from that to an aluminum frame Cannondale CAAD7 with carbon fork & seat post, Profile Design Carbon Stryke aerobars, Shimano SPD-SL pedals and a professional fit.

My average speed jumped 1-2 mph, but at the same time the new bike gave me a lot more incentive to ride, so my training volume also increased significantly.  Hard to say exactly how much gain came from the bike and how much from an improving engine.

My average speed plateaued for a year or so until I significantly upped my volume again (mostly through better consistency) and added some hard intervals into my rides once a week. 

Quite frankly, I think some of my improvement was also psychological.  Once I started logging some faster rides, I developed an increased confidence in my ability to ride fast on a consistent basis. 

Mark

 

 

 

2014-07-31 10:20 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

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Melbourne FL
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Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .

Originally posted by MikeD1
Originally posted by Swimbikeron Rent one for a race, or just ask your LBS if you can take one for a test ride.
Excellent idea, but not really an option as local shops are small and would likely have to order what I want. However, we'll spend the winter in Florida again this year and might be an option there. But, there aren't any significant hills down there and I think most potential gains will be in climbing.
You mentioned FL, if you'll be around the central FL region, the western Orlando area (Clermont) has some hills to ride with short 10-15% climbs.  Also, in the county where I live there are at least 8 bike shops to choose from and all want to make the sale and support the riders.

2014-07-31 10:28 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Boise, ID
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .

 

Chris (Lego) is the expert, so what he said.

The thing that stands out to me is you say the bike is too big and that you have clip on bars on it. Clip on bars on a road bike already tend to stretch you out too much and the extreme angle closes off your hip angle and can rob you of a lot of power. If your bike frame is too big that just makes the problem even worse.

So aside from the weight of the bike, it is possible you are losing power due to your hip angle on the bike. Also it can be hard to make good power when you are uncomfortable. 

As far as is $2k worth it? All up to the individual, we all justify our bike purchases in different ways. I spend a good amount of time each week on my bikes so I want a bike that I like and that I want to be on. It is possible to get a good bike for less than $2k though. I bought my current roadie (2011 Fuji Altamira 3.0) for $1,250, it listed for $2300 or so. I got it as a late year model at a grand opening of a Performance Bike shop. My TT bike I bought in the Spring of 2009, it was a 2008 model that had been sitting on the showroom floor for a year, they gave me a good deal to get it out the door. So look around this fall and find some 2014's they are trying to get rid of, or you can always look at Craigslist as well. Lots of people spend a bunch of money on bike stuff then never use it and sell it cheap. 

2014-07-31 10:29 AM
in reply to: MikeD1

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Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .

A better fitting bike *might* put you in a position to produce more power or be slightly more aerodynamic.  That can have immediate speed impacts.  A better fitting bike may also make riding more comfortable for you, allowing you to train harder, longer, and more often.  That can improve your fitness and speed in the near future and further down the road. 

As far as weight...the 3-6 pound difference is roughly what 1-2 large water bottles weighs.  If you want to know the difference in speed between bikes with that type of weight difference than just do one short ride with no bottles, then the same ride with two full water bottles. 

2014-07-31 11:15 AM
in reply to: Jason N


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Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
Obviously the drag numbers on the bike are going to be a lot better. Technology has come a long way in the past 25 years. How much extra speed that translates to depends on a lot of other variables. Your body positioning is going to matter more than the bike under you. I'd bet the new bike puts you in a better position and that would be worth even more than the new frame. The components will be a lot better and the carbon will make for a better ride. I think you'll be happy after a few rides.


2014-07-31 11:19 AM
in reply to: RedCorvette


631
50010025
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Did my first season of sprint tri's on a steel-framed1972 Schwinn Continental with toe clips.  Went from that to an aluminum frame Cannondale CAAD7 with carbon fork & seat post, Profile Design Carbon Stryke aerobars, Shimano SPD-SL pedals and a professional fit.

My average speed jumped 1-2 mph,. 

Mark

 

 

 



I would think that the pedals have the most to do with that.
2014-07-31 11:24 AM
in reply to: MikeD1


631
50010025
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
I think there have been studies that compares a 15lb bike to the same bike with 5lbs added. I think the study was on a 5k course with a 7% grade, it was a around 10 seconds savings.
2014-07-31 11:30 AM
in reply to: Sidney Porter


467
1001001001002525
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
Really appreciate all the input. A good friend who I used to race Cat 3 with years ago ran a shop for years and knows a lot about fit. He just stopped by this morning for another reason, took one look at me on the bike and said "yep, definitely too big, too much reach for sure" He volunteered to bring over some of his fit gear next week and measure me on the bike and trainer. I will definitely take him up on the offer. He also suggested that using aero clip ons with this much reach is probably losing me as much power as the aero is helping . . . and pretty tough on the back. I felt this was the case but wasn't really sure if I just needed more time on the bars as well as more stretching etc. But at this point on going to forget the bars . . . at 5'11" and about 155lbs I am much lighter than most of the last 40 years, but pretty sure I was racing at about 145lbs. I think I have at least another 5 or 6 lbs I can drop just by cutting down on beer (darn!!
2014-07-31 12:20 PM
in reply to: Sidney Porter

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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .

Originally posted by Sidney Porter
Originally posted by RedCorvette

Did my first season of sprint tri's on a steel-framed1972 Schwinn Continental with toe clips.  Went from that to an aluminum frame Cannondale CAAD7 with carbon fork & seat post, Profile Design Carbon Stryke aerobars, Shimano SPD-SL pedals and a professional fit.

My average speed jumped 1-2 mph,. 

Mark

 

 

 

I would think that the pedals have the most to do with that.

Actually, I tried a set of cheapo SPD pedals on the Schwinn a few months before I bought the Cannondale.  They helped some, but I had lots of problems with some painful hot spots, particularly on my right foot during long rides.  Going to the wider SPD-SL pedals definitely eliminated the hot spots.

While the pedals certainly made a big difference, I think getting the professional fitting with the new bike was the most significant factor.

Mark 

2014-07-31 12:36 PM
in reply to: RedCorvette

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Knoxville area
Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .
didn't we decide a while back that clipless pedals wouldn't really slow somebody down all that much? Jason, was that you?


2014-07-31 1:31 PM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: So how much faster bike . . .

Originally posted by Leegoocrap didn't we decide a while back that clipless pedals wouldn't really slow somebody down all that much? Jason, was that you?

That was me

And just to qualify the statement, it was in reference to triathlon riding, which is very steady power efforts while seated.  For sure you will get increased power efficiency if you're putting down large spikes in effort while out of the saddle because your feet could be sliding all over the platforms of the pedals.

Again, the challenge was that if you think clipless pedals gives you 1-2 mph, then simply swap back to platforms, go for a ride, and see how much slower you actually go.  

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