General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input Rss Feed  
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2014-08-12 3:27 PM

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Seattle, Washington
Subject: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
I'm doing my first Ironman race this year. IMAZ. I decided to rent a QR bike for the race, rather than transport my own road bike (many different reasons here... to keep my bike from damage, the cost in shipping would be the same, I'd love to be able to be a bit faster with a tri-specific bike, etc....)

I posted this on another group I belong to and EVERYONE LOST THEIR MINDS.

I was met with a chorus of, "You can't do that!" (Which really threw me into a funk for the entire weekend because all the responses were so negative.) Of course the biggest reason was the difference in positioning between road and tri bikes. "Your neck will be sore..., etc, etc."

After having some time to think about it... I'm still in for renting the tri bike. But what I need to know is what I can do for the next few months leading up to the race to PREPARE.

Particularly work on core, hamstrings, glutes? Change my road bike positioning to a more aggressive fit (I do have aerobars)? I thought of renting a tri bike for some long training rides, but I don't know of anyone in the Seattle area who rents.

Advice from those who've had experience with this in long distance racing would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


2014-08-12 3:50 PM
in reply to: ksvehlabrown

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

Why are you set on renting the tri bike?  If shipping cost is a wash with renting the bike, why are you choosing the option that has the most unknowns and has the potential to ruin your race?  Keep in mind that while a tri bike can be faster, it is only faster if the the fit is optimized for the rider, and the rider can maintain that fit comfortably for the duration of the bike leg...or at least most of it.  If while riding a tri bike, you can only stay on the aero bars for half the time, you will likely be slower than you would be on a well fitting road bike that you can ride in the drops the entire time.  

If you can simulate the fit of the tri bike you are going to rent, then that may solve some of your issues, but still leaves some unknown.  Are you sure a QR bike will indeed fit you?  How did you go about selecting that bike and the size?  Is the shop you are renting from able to make the adjustments (stem length, spacer stack) that you will need?  Are you even sure your current road bike can be adjusted to simulate the fit you would need on the QR tri bike?

In the end, the decision is still up to you.  You're asking for advice and opinions...you're going to get them.  If you choose to ignore some advice, and only want to listen to advice you want to hear then so be it.  Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

2014-08-12 3:50 PM
in reply to: ksvehlabrown

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
Honestly all those people telling you not to do it are probably right.

I can't imagine riding an unfamiliar bike in a very unfamiliar position in a race. This pretty much defines "nothing new on race day".

Even a road bike with aerobars doesn't really come close - and not to mention the bike is unfamiliar to you.

Maybe if this wasn't your first experience at a full IM you could do it. Since this is your first crack at the distance, there is going to be quite a lot of various factors you will need to manage that will be new to you, why add a complication like your bike comfort in there?
2014-08-12 4:01 PM
in reply to: noofus

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
I owned a road bike for 6 years before buying a tri bike. When I first rode my tri bike (with professional fit) I HATED it. My neck & back hurt and I thought I wasted my money and regretted it for a long time. Eventually I got used to it and it worked out great for me in IMAZ last year but there is no way I would consider using something new on race day, especially for 112 miles, even if I was paid to use it.

In my opinion you have very little to gain by using the tri bike and a tremendous amount to loose.

BTW, I used tri bike transport and it was a flawless experience.

Keba
2014-08-12 4:05 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Seattle, Washington
Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
This program is through RentQR.com, not a shop.

They fit the bike when you arrive and ask for you to provide the measurements of your current bike set up before hand to make sure they have the proper sized bike and it is as close to your current bike set up as possible.

My sister rides a QR. I have previously ridden my sister's road bike (Trek Madone) for Texas 70.3 with great success.

I'm not trying to be stubborn, I'm trying to be as prepared as possible to cross the finish line.


2014-08-12 4:05 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

Sorry, I don't think you're going to get a different response.

Huge mistake.  

But to answer your question, I don't think there is anything you can do to acclimate to a tri bike without actually having a tri bike.....Even tri bike to tri bike, might be a bit closer, but geometries and set ups are different.  You aren't going to be any faster if it's not comfortable.

But hey, people finish IMs with all sorts of different approaches.

Best I could offer would be put on the aerobars and slam the seat forward.  Won't be the same, but maybe it will help. 

I've used TBT to transport my bike 5 X in the last two years, wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  Just my .02 if damage is the only reason



Edited by ChrisM 2014-08-12 4:07 PM


2014-08-12 4:31 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
I have a Trek Madone with aero bars and a Cervelo P2 TT bike. I ride the Trek primarily for training and then switch over to the TT bike as a race gets closer. The first few rides on my own TT bike are a little rough and a bit uncomfortable until I get used to that particular positioning - and I ride in my aerobars most of the time on my road bike.

Your lower back/neck is going to be gumpy after hours in the saddle anyway. Riding an unfamiliar bike would just increase the likelihood that it will happen - IMO.

IMAZ is primarily flat (compared to other IM races) and you can be in the aero position a LOT. So if you do decide to rent and go forward, I would suggest changing positions frequently and sitting up to stretch often, to prevent any lower back stuff.

Whatever you decide - best of luck! I'll be out volunteering for the race!!!
2014-08-12 4:41 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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6

Seattle, Washington
Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
Yes! Scouted the course when I was there last week. Miles and miles of flats! I'm looking forward to it. Coming from Seattle, those kind of stretches are hard to find.

Thanks for the input.
2014-08-12 4:49 PM
in reply to: ksvehlabrown

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
If you could precisely match your current road+aerobar position to the QR then I don't see why that would be an issue. But if you will end up with a different body position on the QR, I can see why others are suggesting against it.

If you're shipping a bike anyway, I'd bring the bike you trained on.

Can the QR be matched to your current position? If the answer's yes, then IMO you'll be fine.

I had a Retul fit done but my budget doesn't allow for a TT bike at the moment but we were able to dial in my road bike with a FF seatpost and new stem+aerobars. So if I were traveling to do a race and wanted to rent, I'd rent a Felt roadie just like mine and bring my aerobars, seatpost and stem.


2014-08-12 5:48 PM
in reply to: AthenaTri

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

Originally posted by AthenaTri This program is through RentQR.com, not a shop. They fit the bike when you arrive and ask for you to provide the measurements of your current bike set up before hand to make sure they have the proper sized bike and it is as close to your current bike set up as possible. My sister rides a QR. I have previously ridden my sister's road bike (Trek Madone) for Texas 70.3 with great success. I'm not trying to be stubborn, I'm trying to be as prepared as possible to cross the finish line.

 

^^ That would all be well and good if you rode a TT bike at home and they could get one of their frames to match the measurements you trained on. However that is not your situation, you are trying to train on a completely different type of bike and then go out and lay down 112 miles on a type of bike you have not trained on. Very bad idea.

I have had my TT bike for over 5 years. It took me a good 3 months to get comfy on it again this year after riding primarily road bike in 2013. You will be flat out miserable in the aero position. And don't think you can just sit up and everything will be fine. TT bikes are not meant to be ridden from the bull horns, the geometry will be different and can cause a variety of issues for your joints and muscles. 

Even if you do manage to get through the bike, it could have an adverse affect on your run.

The TT bike is not going to make you faster if you haven't trained on it or had extensive past experience on a TT bike. Get your bike shipped to the race, race on what you know and have trained with. If you are dead set on buying some "free speed" for the race, then rent some Zipp 404's from whoever will have the rentals at the race. You will be faster than usual but still on a bike you know. 

2014-08-12 6:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

Originally posted by reecealan  Can the QR be matched to your current position? If the answer's yes, then IMO you'll be fine.

No way you can get a road bike to fit like a tri bike.  It will not match her current position.

You can "fake fit" your way through a sprint or Oly bike ride because you're not out there long enough for the uncomfortability to wreak havoc on your body.

Riding 112 miles on a tri bike having never ridden a tri bike before is just ridiculous.  She's going to spend 6-7 hours in an aero position that she's never been in and then expects to run 26 miles afterward.  I'd be thoroughly impressed if she were to finish the bike let alone the race.  Her neck, shoulders and lower back will be on fire.

The flip side is that she will ride 90% of the ride up on the base bars which negates the entire reason for using a tri bike.  Better off just using a road bike in that case.

My advice... use your own bike or rent a ROAD bike.

The nothing new on race day is generally for minor things.  Using a new type of bike on race day takes "nothing new on race day" to a different level.



Edited by GMAN 19030 2014-08-12 6:04 PM


2014-08-12 6:03 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

Originally posted by AthenaTri This program is through RentQR.com, not a shop. They fit the bike when you arrive and ask for you to provide the measurements of your current bike set up before hand to make sure they have the proper sized bike and it is as close to your current bike set up as possible. My sister rides a QR. I have previously ridden my sister's road bike (Trek Madone) for Texas 70.3 with great success. I'm not trying to be stubborn, I'm trying to be as prepared as possible to cross the finish line.

Your current bike setup is not a tri bike setup, thus you will not have any meaningful measurements to provide them.  Even if they did have multiple sizes available for you to choose from when you got on site, and spent a few hours with the fit professional, you would still be riding a position that would be completely unfamiliar to you, and there would be no way to simulate it in training because you wouldn't know what you need to simulate to until you get the fit.  ETA:  Furthermore, it is not uncommon, and actually highly recommended by good fitters that you come back after a week or two for minor adjustments.  Many people will often come back for these adjustments due to discomfort after trying their new fit on a 15-30 mile ride.  Imagine finding out that your initial fitting wasn't dialed in properly in the middle of a 112 mile IM bike leg where you still need to run a marathon afterwards.

I think this program is set up for people that already own a tri bike that they are already fit for.  Once you know the measurements of your contact points, it becomes a little easier to mimic those coordinates on another bike.  Thus you can train all you want on the bike you own, and when you get the rental, it should feel pretty close.  I can imagine people traveling from other countries may find this useful as shipping their bike may cost more than their bike is actually worth.



Edited by Jason N 2014-08-12 6:10 PM
2014-08-12 6:09 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

dp

 



Edited by Jason N 2014-08-12 6:09 PM
2014-08-12 6:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

See if you can rent one locally for a week or two of practice......there....done, and you get your way.



Edited by Left Brain 2014-08-12 6:12 PM
2014-08-12 6:42 PM
in reply to: ksvehlabrown

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

One of the fitters I have used will often adjust a fit over two sessions to allow folks to adapt more easily. He wants you to ride 500 miles in the half way position then come back and he will set up the bike to the final fit.

I often find it takes me less than 500 miles to adjust but I'm doing a tri fit to a slightly different tri fit.

I do recall when I went from a road bike with clip ons to my tri bike, I was out riding 60 miles easily without any issues first week but I was fit well on my road bike with areobars so maybe less of a change than for some.. I did a ride with other BTers and they were surprised as I rode more than they did in areo and I had a new first time tri bike less than 10 days. But my tri bike was fit well to me.

Do you ride in your areobars most of the time? If not you will suffer riding a tri bike and be riding it sitting up more than you expect which makes it very slight if any gains.

Find a friend who you can borrow a tri bike for long rides. There is a new on line bike rental program where you rent from other riders works for skis, and such as well. Maybe find someone local to rent their bike a few times before heading to AZ.

Try spinlister for local bike rentals.

2014-08-12 7:02 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
Originally posted by Left Brain

See if you can rent one locally for a week or two of practice......there....done, and you get your way.




Yup! :D


2014-08-12 9:27 PM
in reply to: ksvehlabrown

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
I think that if you can set up the two bikes with the exact same fit coordinates then you would be fine. If you can't you won't. It is that simple. If the QR is going to be vastly different from your current setup then you would be a little crazy to try this. It would be a shame to ruin your IM because you were riding in a very different position. Believe me, 112 miles is a long time to be on a bike, even one that fits perfect. If the fit is a little off then it could end up in a progressively worsening festival of suffering.

I have been riding a Specialized Shiv for three years now. I had the opportunity to ride a Cervelo P2 while on vacation (caveat, my old bike that I really had not been on for three years). I brought my measurements from the Shiv with me (along with a saddle that I like and my pedals) and once I got the coordinates dialed in, had no issues at all riding the P2 for the week. The fit wasn't exact to the mm, but it was pretty darn close and worked out just fine.

2014-08-15 2:22 PM
in reply to: KathyG

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Seattle, Washington
Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
Thanks for mentioning spinlister.com. I had never heard of it before!
2014-08-16 9:45 AM
in reply to: AthenaTri

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

You're getting a lot of good advice and some practical suggestions here.

What you're proposing is not a good idea.  There is a high probability that it would result in significant neck, shoulder, and upper back pain at the least, which can cause serious problems for you on the run.

Consider one of the following (probably in this order):

  1. Take your bike and race on it.
  2. Rent an identical bike for a month to train on before the race.
  3. Borrow a tri bike from a friend and have it fitted to you to train on for a month before the race.

In the end, you need to ask yourself, with all the training and cost you've invested in this race, is it worth the risk to knowingly introduce an unnecessary variable on race day?

 

2014-08-16 1:09 PM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

Can you borrow your sister's bike for the rest of your training? Exactly how much faster do you think you're going to be on a tri bike? The points that everyone else has brought up are valid points that need to be considered carefully. Everyone has your best interest at heart. 

There are a lot of other factors to consider aside from the fit. Can you ride a tri bike in a group? IMAZ is a looped course even with the 3 bike length rule there are going to be times that you will be in a group of people. Can you shift easily on a tri bike? How comfortable are you in aero? Can you get in and out of aero smoothly and hold a line? Look behind you and hold your line? 

Can you reach down and get a water/nutrition bottle from behind the saddle and maintain a straight line? Can you put it back in the cage afterwards?  Will you be able to go through the feed zones on a new bike and get nutrition without taking everyone else out on the course? Accidents happen to the most expericenced riders on their bikes at races. By riding a bike that you haven't practiced on you have the potential to not only ruin your race but someone else's IM. 

Is this IM a one and done for you? Or are you planning on doing more in the future? If you're planning on doing more racing in the future then this would be a great time to add a tri bike to your stable.  

 

2014-08-16 2:52 PM
in reply to: ksvehlabrown

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
Honestly I also think it is crazy!

And it has a great potential to ruin your race! I mean we are not talking about 20 or 30 miles but 112 miles onna bike you are not used to, in a position your body is not used to and probably a saddle you are not used to!

I am in pain just thinking about it!

I am wondering why you are so set on doing it anyways if a lot of people gave you the advise, that it is a very bad idea?


2014-08-16 3:06 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
Could you do an IM on your current road bike in the aero position for the full time ?
If so, send your coordinates to them and ask if they can replicate them

Bring your own saddle
Make sure crank arm length and gearing is the same.

These are the coordinates you need


Never done IM but have done 4hrs this way. I have a road bike with Fast forward post and aerobars that has the identical fit to my tri bike

Far from ideal, but if you are hell bent on trying, at least figure out how to get the two bikes closest together.

Edited by marcag 2014-08-16 3:25 PM
2014-08-16 3:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input

I've used TBT to transport my bike 5 X in the last two years, wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  Just my .02 if damage is the only reason

They also offer insurance (I think an extra $8 for each $1000 covered).  This is really the most convenient and least risky option.

 

I raced IM New Zealand last March.  It's a flat course but I wasn't able to train on the bike much at all.  That was my 6th IM and I'm used to a tri bike, and I was riding my own bike.  My neck and back were still destroyed and I spent a good chunk of the 2nd lap sitting up.  What you should take away from this is:

1) you can't ride 112 comfortably on a tri bike unless you ride a lot of miles on one in training for many weeks before the race.

2) when it comes to maintaining a good position on the aerobars, flat courses are *harder* than hilly ones because you spend so much time locked in that position.

 

Listen to the advice on this thread and you'll probably have a better day.



Edited by spudone 2014-08-16 3:10 PM
2014-08-16 3:27 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: Renting a Tri Bike for IMAZ... Need Input
Your arguments are also not very good/valid:

1) I have travelled (flown) with myTri-Bike about 20 times in the last 4 years to various countries and it still looks almost like new. So that argument is not really valid.

2) You might not neccesarily be faster on the Tri-Bike and even if you are you might run slower as your body is probably going to be more sore/tired from the unfamiliar position position on the bike!


Oh and if you are still set on doing it anways then at least bring your own SADDLE!!
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