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2014-12-15 7:16 AM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed
Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by mike761 Figure it out now before it gets worse. I had S1 herniated and L4 + L5 compressed about 5 years ago. Could not feel my left foot for a month. I could not run or swim, but I could ride a bike. All depends where your disc is compressed. I had problems that sound like your up to 10 years before that, but with Dr's dismissing things quickly as compressed disc's(no MRI) and sending me to a crappy PT the problem never really got addressed. x-rays will not show this stuff, you need an MRI, I agree with LB on the urgent care diagnoses. Dr's wanted to operate on me but I refused, spent 3 months with a PT to get straightened out. Proper stretching is a big part of this, along with keeping your core strong. You want to find a good Physical Therapist, mine was able to do a 1 hr evaluation and told me what was going on in my back before looking at the MRI disc. I still have problems here and there and have flare ups, but know what to do when it happens. Earlier this summer I had a bad flare up and decided to try tan inversion table, all pain was gone in 2 days. Only time will tell, but that was by far the fastest recovery I ever had to my back pain. Now I just get on the table 2-3 times a week for "maintenance". So far I'm thinking the $150 on an inversion table was one of my best purchases ever. [/QUOTE]

 

I recently bought an inversion table due to my recent discovery (via MRI) of multiple bulging disks and one herniated, L5, SI.

I'm looking for recommendations on using the table.  How often, how long per "set" and how deep?  I don't want to aggravate things before my surgical consult in January.  I'm going to hold off on surgery unless the Surgeon feels there is risk of long term nerve damage as I'm dealing with throbbing and aching down my right leg, glute, hammie, calf.

Oh and I start yoga on Tuesday which between the table and yoga many people are telling me I can fix all the compression in my lower back... 




I had an MRI confirming the herniated disc and 2 more severely compressed. The surgeon wanted to operate- imagine that a man who get paid to use a knife wanted to cut me open.

I could not feel my left foot, so it was bad for me. However surgery is not guaranteed and as I see it a last resort. I'm sure you will find many people who have had success, but they will never be 100% again, you may never here from the ones that went wrong because they are now in wheelchairs. I'm sure they will tell you about the high success rates of surgery, however I was one of the 2% with issues from a vasectomy. SO I say hell no your not cutting into my spine!

I went to PT for months to learn how to fix and control the problem. Now that I have the inversion table I get on anytime my back feels a little achy which is about once every 2 or 3 weeks. I spend about 10 minutes on it and I'm good to go.



2014-12-15 9:21 AM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by mike761 Figure it out now before it gets worse. I had S1 herniated and L4 + L5 compressed about 5 years ago. Could not feel my left foot for a month. I could not run or swim, but I could ride a bike. All depends where your disc is compressed. I had problems that sound like your up to 10 years before that, but with Dr's dismissing things quickly as compressed disc's(no MRI) and sending me to a crappy PT the problem never really got addressed. x-rays will not show this stuff, you need an MRI, I agree with LB on the urgent care diagnoses. Dr's wanted to operate on me but I refused, spent 3 months with a PT to get straightened out. Proper stretching is a big part of this, along with keeping your core strong. You want to find a good Physical Therapist, mine was able to do a 1 hr evaluation and told me what was going on in my back before looking at the MRI disc. I still have problems here and there and have flare ups, but know what to do when it happens. Earlier this summer I had a bad flare up and decided to try tan inversion table, all pain was gone in 2 days. Only time will tell, but that was by far the fastest recovery I ever had to my back pain. Now I just get on the table 2-3 times a week for "maintenance". So far I'm thinking the $150 on an inversion table was one of my best purchases ever. [/QUOTE]

 

I recently bought an inversion table due to my recent discovery (via MRI) of multiple bulging disks and one herniated, L5, SI.

I'm looking for recommendations on using the table.  How often, how long per "set" and how deep?  I don't want to aggravate things before my surgical consult in January.  I'm going to hold off on surgery unless the Surgeon feels there is risk of long term nerve damage as I'm dealing with throbbing and aching down my right leg, glute, hammie, calf.

Oh and I start yoga on Tuesday which between the table and yoga many people are telling me I can fix all the compression in my lower back... 

I had an MRI confirming the herniated disc and 2 more severely compressed. The surgeon wanted to operate- imagine that a man who get paid to use a knife wanted to cut me open. I could not feel my left foot, so it was bad for me. However surgery is not guaranteed and as I see it a last resort. I'm sure you will find many people who have had success, but they will never be 100% again, you may never here from the ones that went wrong because they are now in wheelchairs. I'm sure they will tell you about the high success rates of surgery, however I was one of the 2% with issues from a vasectomy. SO I say hell no your not cutting into my spine! I went to PT for months to learn how to fix and control the problem. Now that I have the inversion table I get on anytime my back feels a little achy which is about once every 2 or 3 weeks. I spend about 10 minutes on it and I'm good to go.

 

I hear you, I was also in this "small number of patients who experience post surgery issues".... For me it was 6 weeks and several weeks of misery and I did EVERYTHING as I was instructed post surgery....

I'm not getting cut without a really good reason.... 

As for the table, what should I feel and where should I be feeling the stretch?  I've read posts and people I know have commented about feeling relief right away... I'm not worried about it being a slow starter but wondered your experience.

Thanks!

2014-12-15 9:33 AM
in reply to: ladyluna67

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed
beware of all advice you get on the internet, including this thread. There is a really dangerous mix of good and bad advice here.

The urgent care doc is a fine start, the meds he started are fine. If you're having new or excruciating pain, you need a PCP or other long term practitioner (not urgent care, not ER) to coordinate followup imaging.

about 95% of all acute back pain resolves in 6-8 weeks no matter how you treat it. Note the time course of many people's stories here.

True back pain mismanagement is rare...usually it's patient dissatisfaction due to unmet expectations. (like the drug cocktail comment, or insistence that a specialist treat one of the most common presenting complaints).

If your pain is not improved, go to the ER. If you have trouble peeing or pooping, go to the ER.

This sin't medical advice.

I hope you feel better

-from an L5/S1 surgical repair patient, who successfully stays active but deals with pain often.

2014-12-15 9:46 AM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed
Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by mike761
Originally posted by TriMike

Originally posted by mike761 Figure it out now before it gets worse. I had S1 herniated and L4 + L5 compressed about 5 years ago. Could not feel my left foot for a month. I could not run or swim, but I could ride a bike. All depends where your disc is compressed. I had problems that sound like your up to 10 years before that, but with Dr's dismissing things quickly as compressed disc's(no MRI) and sending me to a crappy PT the problem never really got addressed. x-rays will not show this stuff, you need an MRI, I agree with LB on the urgent care diagnoses. Dr's wanted to operate on me but I refused, spent 3 months with a PT to get straightened out. Proper stretching is a big part of this, along with keeping your core strong. You want to find a good Physical Therapist, mine was able to do a 1 hr evaluation and told me what was going on in my back before looking at the MRI disc. I still have problems here and there and have flare ups, but know what to do when it happens. Earlier this summer I had a bad flare up and decided to try tan inversion table, all pain was gone in 2 days. Only time will tell, but that was by far the fastest recovery I ever had to my back pain. Now I just get on the table 2-3 times a week for "maintenance". So far I'm thinking the $150 on an inversion table was one of my best purchases ever. [/QUOTE]

 

I recently bought an inversion table due to my recent discovery (via MRI) of multiple bulging disks and one herniated, L5, SI.

I'm looking for recommendations on using the table.  How often, how long per "set" and how deep?  I don't want to aggravate things before my surgical consult in January.  I'm going to hold off on surgery unless the Surgeon feels there is risk of long term nerve damage as I'm dealing with throbbing and aching down my right leg, glute, hammie, calf.

Oh and I start yoga on Tuesday which between the table and yoga many people are telling me I can fix all the compression in my lower back... 

I had an MRI confirming the herniated disc and 2 more severely compressed. The surgeon wanted to operate- imagine that a man who get paid to use a knife wanted to cut me open. I could not feel my left foot, so it was bad for me. However surgery is not guaranteed and as I see it a last resort. I'm sure you will find many people who have had success, but they will never be 100% again, you may never here from the ones that went wrong because they are now in wheelchairs. I'm sure they will tell you about the high success rates of surgery, however I was one of the 2% with issues from a vasectomy. SO I say hell no your not cutting into my spine! I went to PT for months to learn how to fix and control the problem. Now that I have the inversion table I get on anytime my back feels a little achy which is about once every 2 or 3 weeks. I spend about 10 minutes on it and I'm good to go.

 

I hear you, I was also in this "small number of patients who experience post surgery issues".... For me it was 6 weeks and several weeks of misery and I did EVERYTHING as I was instructed post surgery....

I'm not getting cut without a really good reason.... 

As for the table, what should I feel and where should I be feeling the stretch?  I've read posts and people I know have commented about feeling relief right away... I'm not worried about it being a slow starter but wondered your experience.

Thanks!




When I use the table the relief is not what I would call immediate. If you expect to hurt getting on and feel good getting off that is not how it works for me.

When I get off the table I actually feel some pain(scared me at first).
When I first got the table I did not know if it was working or not, but after about 4 or 5 days I was feeling pretty good; that's coming from really hurting. Even now after hanging for 10 minutes when I come back upright there tends to be a little pain, but that goes away quickly. Now that I have had the table I can actually say that do not have back pains all the time and don't live in fear of them returning.
The pain when coming upright I vision as my vertebrae all being stretched out and then coming back to a neutral position, like a rubber band being stretched. I don't know if others get this pain or not but actually herniated one of my discs, everyone is a little different. As long as I use it for maintenance that little bit of pain coming upright is minimal and nothing compared to my back hurting.

For me that recovery was 6 months, and I did everything I was told.
2014-12-15 10:55 AM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed

Originally posted by AdventureBear beware of all advice you get on the internet, including this thread. There is a really dangerous mix of good and bad advice here. The urgent care doc is a fine start, the meds he started are fine. If you're having new or excruciating pain, you need a PCP or other long term practitioner (not urgent care, not ER) to coordinate followup imaging. about 95% of all acute back pain resolves in 6-8 weeks no matter how you treat it. Note the time course of many people's stories here. True back pain mismanagement is rare...usually it's patient dissatisfaction due to unmet expectations. (like the drug cocktail comment, or insistence that a specialist treat one of the most common presenting complaints). If your pain is not improved, go to the ER. If you have trouble peeing or pooping, go to the ER. This sin't medical advice. I hope you feel better -from an L5/S1 surgical repair patient, who successfully stays active but deals with pain often.

Good points you bring up.  I can't speak for anyone else but I use the feedback and comments on this forum as additional perspective and experience.  However I will make my decision based on my situation.  I only said I wasn't going to get cut unless I had to because surgery scares me.  That and I'm very good at following a program so I figured if the inversion table and yoga help I'll avoid surgery if I can.  

My PCP who is also ACSM certified said my MRI indicates "cleaning it up" is probably the best option but obviously wasn't speaking for the surgeon..   My consult is 1/5/15 so I've got time to start addressing the compression albeit carefully.

Interestingly my issue is at the L5/SI location.  For your surgery did they essentially trim/clean up the herniation or was it more involved?  When you say you still deal with occasional pain, is it in the same area?  Are you doing things to address the compression with no luck?

I've got other bulging disks too which is also why I'm not as interested in surgery.  I could be back on the table for those if I don't address the compression soon...

Thanks again for your comments.

 

 

2014-12-15 12:55 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed
Originally posted by AdventureBear



-from an L5/S1 surgical repair patient, who successfully stays active but deals with pain often.




This is why I tried all alternatives before going to surgery. For some surgery may be the only option, I found that with time and PT I was able to get to a place I believe is as good (or better) than post surgery would be.


2014-12-15 5:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed
Originally posted by TriMike

Interestingly my issue is at the L5/SI location.  For your surgery did they essentially trim/clean up the herniation or was it more involved?  When you say you still deal with occasional pain, is it in the same area?  Are you doing things to address the compression with no luck?

I've got other bulging disks too which is also why I'm not as interested in surgery.  I could be back on the table for those if I don't address the compression soon...

Thanks again for your comments.

 

 




I typed out a much longer reply during downtime at work, but lost it.

So...long story shorter...believe it or not.
I had a bucket handle tear (semicircular) with the flap stuck between two vertebrae...I cringe just thinking about it. I dn't thing there was any way it was going to unstick itself once it happened.

I think I injured my back at about age 23 due to kayaking and letting youth overtake paddling skills and stressing my lumber spine.

Since then routine pain that would only occasionally slow me down.

Then during a day of gravel raking 13 years later (age 36) I felt a sudden pop, from there it was steadily downhill with gradually worsening pain down my right leg. I saw my PCP, PT, did steroid pack, NSAIDs and then one day it felt like it exploded. Rapidly I had uncontrollable pain and my right S1 nerve started getting weak, I couldn't toe off and my right hamstring started not working well, i had to pull myself up the steps, it was bad.

I had an MRI (only after 13 years of pain...because the prior treatment would not have changed) because I was ready to consider surgery. I had surgery 2 days later...severe pain was gone instantly, my strength returned over the next year. To this day my right leg is weaker but fully functional. I get cramps in my right calf & hamstring when doing activity beyond my current ability level.

I stretch my lumbar spine, hips (esp external rotators), hip flexors and strengthen my glutes, hamstrings & quads & do core work routinely.
The big ticket items for me are gluteus strength and hip flexor stretching. if I do those two things my discomfort is minimal, but I still have pain nearly every am on a 1-2/10 scale. I avoid lumbar rotation as well due to the type of injury I had (circular tear on the top of the disc) and I strongly feel that a lot of that repetitive "back cracking" of my low back by twisting contributed to the long term wear.

I didn't consider surgery until I had an acute weakening of my leg...then there was no question and after hearing about the findings of the surgeon (bucket handle tear stuck, disc contents pouring out of a big hole in the top) there was also no question it was the best answer for me...I had run through all the conservative treatments and also had a sudden neurologic worsening of my leg function (weakness).

I hope that helps someone. My surgery was 10 years ago and since then I've STARTED open water swim racing, criterium racing, cyclocross racing and done all but the very first of my triathlons. The only things I don't do that I used to do are kayaking (white water) and rock climbing as both really aggrevate my low back due to the twisting. I can do pretty much anything else as long as I keep moving. My pain is worst after long car or plane trips when I'm still, or if I've been sick for a few days asleep on the couch or something.


I'm rambling now but should note that during surgery the nerve was completely flattened like a ribbon from the disc contents that oozed out of the tear. I feel fortunate that I could have this fixed with surgery. Many disc injuries are not operable.



Edited by AdventureBear 2014-12-15 6:01 PM
2014-12-15 6:53 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed

Wow... You think you had the injury in your 20's but the gravel raking is what popped the disk fragment onto the nerve?

If that's the case then I'm starting to think my injury could be from my earlier years too.. I had a sciatic nerve pinch in high school playing football.  Couldn't walk for a few days, actually had partial feeling lost in my legs as well.  Ended my playing days and kept me from playing in college... May be the best thing that ever happened to me...

I'm anxious to hear the surgeon's opinion of my MRI.  I think I mentioned in an earlier post, my PCP seems to think what I've got going on is pretty straightforward and should be fixed quite easily.  

Honestly as I try to get comfortable after another day of sitting at the office no matter how I sit or lay my leg and lower back hurt and throb.  I'd be lying if I said I didn't think surgery with the hope of instant relief didn't sound good... 

I start yoga tomorrow night and have been using my inversion table for a few days, albeit the first few days I didn't do it long enough.  I made it 10 minutes tonight and it felt better afterwards...Not so much now though...

Thanks for the information, glad to hear you've rebounded so well.

2014-12-16 7:16 AM
in reply to: TriMike

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed
Originally posted by TriMike

Wow... You think you had the injury in your 20's but the gravel raking is what popped the disk fragment onto the nerve?




most disc related injuries are an accumulation of wear and tear. In my early 20s I tweaked my back kayaking. Didn't bother me much that day, a little sore the next. That following weekend about 5 days later, I was on a rock climbing trip and developed excruciting localized back pain, again no relief. My friends (2 physicians) gave me beer & percocet for the drive home which made it tolerable. I saw my PCP who did Xrays (totally unncessary), and told me I'd have back pain the rest of my life, and gave me a sheet of paper with core exercises on them. I was crushed and thought he was an A$$. Turns out what he did was fine, he simply lacked bedside manner and the skills to educate me about what my injury & pain was likely to be. From there I recovered mostly and had on again off again localized back pain, but that episode took a good 2 months to recover from.

Fortunately being young and active I maintained all the supporting muscle groups (hips, core, etc) to keep me fairly comfortable.

The "gravel raking incident" involved reaching and rotating at the same time, which is incredibly stressful on the lumbar spine. I think that was enough to cause either a new/recurrent tear in my disk or to finish off a tear that had been there. Once that tear occurred, disc fluid probabaly started leaking which slowly caused my symptoms. Finally, a 2-3 months later I was on a driving trip down the east coast to visit my ailing grandparents. Driving is one of the worst things for the low back. I'm guessing that it was on that trip...the driving and probabaly turning over or twisting in my sleep caused that "last straw" for the tear to get lodged between 2 vertebra which is what the surgeon found. Within 2 days of that pain, I developed numbness & weakness of that nerve.

So I had a great outcome, but I would never recommend surgery without clear indications, a surgical lesion (not all back pain or bulges are ammeable to surgery), a neuro deficit, etc.

Back pain is super common and the good news is that with vigilance about body weight, mobility & core strengthening and staying active much of the pain can be minimized or eliminated with time, and no surgery.

Good luck!
2014-12-16 9:59 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed
Been about 14 months for me and my herniated disc. Not sure where it began but had a sore back late last summer then did an Oly and my back tightened up the next day. Did PT and was feeling about 95% then stupidly went to the gym and lifted too heavy and pop! L5/S1. Had pain into the butt and hamstring and was uncomfortable. Did a couple rounds of prednisone and a shot in the back in Dec. Then in Jan my two little toes started to get a little numb like a 1 or 2 out of 10. They have been that way ever since. A follow up MRI this summer said I'm basically resolved with a small protrusion slightly touching the nerve root and with a little stenosis. My hip area gets VERY stiff and the muscles have been tight ever since last year. I found a better chiropractor and started doing some SI joint and periformis type stretches along with using my inversion table daily. It's become more manageable but it still flares up a couple times a week. Been able to do a 2 mile run on the treadmill this past week. The inversion table has been a BIG part of moving forward this fall as well as the stretches. In hindsight I always wondered if I shouldn't have just done the surgery right away but that's debatable. HOPING to do some sprint tris this next year....HOPING to.
2015-01-25 10:32 AM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Bulged disc - depressed

An update to my situation.  I've had one injection, the next one is scheduled for this Friday.  I've been doing yoga two days a week and using my inversion table for ~ 12-15 minutes per time every other day.

I can say that the result of the combination of things listed above has dramatically improved my symptoms.  I no longer have the aching throbbing in my glute (everything for me was on the right side) and hamstring.

I've got an appointment with  my primary Dr. this week to discuss/plan what's next.  

I'm wondering if with yoga and inversion the bulging disks will settle down?  The anesthesiologist who did my injection actually took the time to read through all the notes the surgeon listed during his review of my MRI etc., and it included "severe lower back stenosis" which I'm thinking no amount of yoga and inversion will address... Maybe I'm wrong (actually hopefully I'm wrong) but I thought stenosis was a thinning of the spinal column so how does that get better??

If I have to give up running as a concession to my back issues it will be after looking at all the facts and being pragmatic about avoiding re-injury.  I just don't want to look back at this period in my life and think I was too conservative....

 



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