Swimming breakthrough- finally :)

Good for you!

Consistency, technique and volume will help you get even faster. Try not to go more than a couple of days without some swim time...even if it's just a few hundred yards. It's so easy to lose a feel for the water unless you get in the water on a regular basis.

are you working with a coach on deck? someone to give you feedback?

i ask as when your in the 2:30/100m range...there as to be some major flaw that can be corrected and will get you under 2min very quickly. At that pace, the improvement can be quick and ''spectacular'' if you are willing to put the time in and have some guidance.

I worked with a coach for a while last year and while he did help with my stroke, I didn't get much faster. I did get to about this speed but believe me- there was no magic improvement beyond that. I'm reluctant to go back to a coached group now before I spend more time in the pool. Like I said I've only been swimming twice/week for about two months this year, so I need more time. I can tell now that my swim fitness is improving, I am able to swim with better form than I was before.

By the way- others in the past- including the coaches in that program - have made similar claims that they expected I would see some huge improvements right away because I must have had some major inefficiencies- it never really happened, so comments like that just served to get me more frustrated.

Maybe post up a video and we can analyse it? I've noticed a lot of the really slow swimmers in our club don't really have an effective catch and pull. They ever so gently rotate their arms, place hand on top of the water and gently pull through the water. You really need to be feeling a lot of resistance. Also get experienced swimmers to check you out and advise you on your technique - 2.30/100m suggests there is something fundamentally wrong with your technique. If your technique is OK and it's simply a case of fitness you should be able to sprint anaerobically for at least 50m without fatiguing and get a time of say 50, 55 sec. If you find your sprint time for 50 is similar to your 100m, 200m lap times i.e 1.15/50m then really you're doing something wrong.

I understand why a coach might say that, but freestyle is a very technical stroke. And really fixing up someones poor freestyle can involve addressing 20 - 30 points. And that's not an exaggeration. And really if you were told 20 things you were doing wrong, it's not going to be possible for you to remember all those points and address them whilst swimming in a short period of time. It would be common for an average swimmer to not breath correctly, not have a good catch and pull, incorrect head position, poor kick, poor body position, crossing over of the arms. That's a good 6 weeks+ of working on those issues to fix them. It takes time.

there is no magic improvement. that is for sure. But you are on the right path to swim more. It s very difficulte to make improvement on 2 times a week. I do work in Penticton, bc with a group of new swimmers every spring. They get into the sport of triathlon and are very scare/nervous/apprehensive of swimming and even more in open water. And like you, they have tried and often feel discourage or frustrated with some ''claims'' etc.

The trick with them is have them COMMITTED to the 3 times a week program. Years after years, new swimmer make big gain when they get to this point and swim 3x 2000-3000m. That is a volume that produce a lot of physiological adaptation and get them fit enough to be able to hold better technic/stroke when swimming. And every single year, it s a awesome process to see them become comfident swimmers and make big and quick gain in he early part of there swimming developpement


Now, when working with the performance group with triathlete in the 1:40, 1:30 1:20 etc.... it become a much slower/harder process, having them in the water up to 5 times a week (2-4000m) and only get tiny gain after months of hard work.

keep it up, get the frequency and total volume up. it will go a long way into this process.

I'm definitely faster when I sprint 50m- under a minute or so but I haven't tried that in a while. I was planning on getting back to shorter intervals soon.

Hi Jen, could you share how you did it? Workout plan?

Some really good stuff in this thread. I have gotten to that high 1:20s group, leaving on 1:40s and have been stuck there forever. There are just so many little things involved in good freestyle. I may swim the rest of my life and not ever get where I want to be as far as pace but I am really enjoying the journey of trying to get there.

Some take aways for me:

1. It took a long time for swimming to become enjoyable but when I finally committed to swimming 4-6 days per week, swimming got a lot more fun. I was one of those triathletes who only learned to swim to do triathlon. Now I like it so much that I am sure that I would continue to swim even if I ever got out of triathlon......but that level of pleasure took a long time to get to.

2. You have to have a certain amount of "horsepower" to be a good swimmer. In other words, it requires the training of muscles that you may not have previously used to do something over and over and over again without fatiguing. That requires a lot of work and fitness to get to. I think that many of us have no real concept about how hard many elite level swimmers are pulling on the water. You don't have to be hugely strong; skinny little 10 year old girls can outswim me, but you have to have some swimming muscles in order to maintain good technique for more than 100 yards.

3. Technique trumps (almost )everything in the water. You can't get significantly fast(er) without developing good technique but it is hard to develop good technique without some swimming related fitness (see number 2). It is hard to know what comes first, the chicken or the egg, the technique or the fitness..... And, for those of us who did not grow up as competitive swimmers, it is really hard to judge your own technique. Something about the loss of some proprioception in the water makes it harder to realize what 'you' are doing wrong. This is when having a coach on deck or video of your swim, or both, are super helpful.

My two cents from a reformed non swimmer who is making glacially slow progress in turning myself in to a swimmer

Jason, your take away are excellent.

maybe one comment: '' It is hard to know what comes first, the chicken or the egg, the technique or the fitness.....''

it s not important ot know what come first.... as you swim more...both fitness and technique will improve hands in hands. If you make a new modification to your catch... it wont be possible for you to hold it for any significant amount of time until you gain fitness and strenght to hold it. what i like to tell my swimmers is to not be too concern about all this, commit to the process, be engage in each session, and with time and hours put in, improvement will happen. But technique and fitness goes hand in hand...you dont get one without the other one.

keep the good work... it can be frustrating at time when you're in the 1:20 and not improving as quickly as you did in the past... keep enjoying the struggle!

That's good and suggests sub 2min for 100m is easily achievable. As others have said though you probably have to swim more and also ensure your sessions are productive and aimed at not only working on your stroke, but improving your fitness. For example if you're doing a set of 100s you don't want a significant rest, like wannabefaster mentioned - he's doing "high 1:20s group, leaving on 1:40s" so not much more than 10 secs rest. There are many people that will do the distance e.g 3km but without the intensity. Also how's your breathing? Do you breathe out underwater, do you breathe bi-laterally?

My speed related question has to do with weight. I was in the last few month swimming at about 2:45 /100 regular pace. Speed pace was 2:30/ 100. This week for the first time in one work out. I did a 2:15 and a 2:08 which bested. Y time of 2:26. I have lost 59 lbs since January and expect to lose another 55 to 75 lbs overall. Is it reasonable to believe that as my weight goes down to more appropriate levels my times should improve significantly due to the plus increased fitness ? Just something I have been wondering.

Thanks. I do breathe bilaterally and breathe out under water. I notice I become more out of breath when I push harder, but that of course is getting better with fitness.

My rest between intervals is normally only about 10-15 sec, but a bit longer when I'm changing to fins or pull buoy or when I'm doing the hard 100s.

I was thinking of joining another group with the same coach I did last year (who did a lot of work with technique and videos, etc), but what I don't like about his classes is that there always seems to be a lot of standing around. Yet I'm not quite ready for a masters group. I will see how I do with some work on my own first.

thanks everyone. Maybe i'll be doing sub 2:00 for 100m by next year.

Post a video. I'm sure somebody here can give some tips.

Have you talked with any of the masters groups to see what they can do? Each may have different things available. The one I'm in does have more of a beginner lane with people swimming 2:00+/100. They may take you now, or they may have some more ideas on how to get there.

What I remember from a video you posted not too long ago (my own observations and especially in other's comments who know much more) was ok with general body positioning, but really needing to work on establishing the catch. jonnyo has posted a few help videos before. One of them was specifically on this. You won't be able to bend your arm *that* much, but it has helped a number of others better understand what they're trying to do. This was by far the biggest thing you needed to figure out. How to do it within your current ability and be able to keep developing it farther from there. It may take another example to get it, but keep working for something that makes the concept click.

Edited by brigby1 2014-08-29 2:43 PM

I've been working on it.

And yes, some of the masters groups have slow lanes, but the ones close to me are all full. There MAY be one in a nearby pool starting up in the fall, but if not, I will probably just stick to my own workouts for now.

Jennifer, one more thing to maybe try. I remember from your video your turnover was fairly slow. It's probably faster now with your increased speed but there's a tool you can use to focus on that aspect. I use the Finis Tempo Trainer to work on my cadence...in fact, our masters class has sets which incorporate it. It's placed under your swim cap and it beeps based on how fast or slow you set it. You start by setting it at your current stroke rate and then while doing a series of 25s you speed it up a bit. The faster cadence will eventually feel easier to maintain. Just something to consider.

Congrats on the breakthrough!! I'm hoping to get somewhere in the 2:30 vicinity one of these days.


And this is why I believe I won't be getting there any time soon. That volume represents 1.5-2.5 hours in the pool 3x a week. I just don't have that kind of time (or interest, to be honest).

Just commit an hour, four days per week, and six months from now I bet you will be hitting those yardages in the hour of allotted time.

Of course if you don't want to then you don't want to.

Yeah, that much would be fine. You can make a lot of gains from there. Even a little less should be plenty to get well past 2:30 if you can figure some things out.

Edited by brigby1 2014-08-30 4:50 PM

Thanks. My turnover is increasing and I will consider the metronome. I notice that's where the fitness really makes a difference.

As for doing 2000m 3-4 times per week, that's my current plan. Onward....