General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim Critique Video, thanks Rss Feed  
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2014-09-01 1:40 PM

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Subject: Swim Critique Video, thanks
I posted a while back with a video, still working on a lot of the same stuff it seems. Elbows are higher, legs are closer together but still need a more compact kick.

Still struggling with the left hand tilting upward on entry, I think this is my poorly executed attempt at "feel", also I think I'm not rolling enough to air, more like turning, which puts me in something resembling a C instead of straight, most obvious at around :42

Anything else? I'm disturbingly not good, about a 1:45 100m repeat swimmer, run out of breath very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2BAdJYqpBQ


2014-09-01 1:57 PM
in reply to: chris948

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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
You're like me. My swim coach always tells me the same thing but it's hard for me to fix. Your right arm is going out when you breath and it messed up your catch a little. Legs are dragging. Push your chest in more (another issue I still have). A drill my coach gave me was to put my arms at the side and using only my legs to get to the other side. Head is down, chest is down, and legs are together and I use short small kicks to move. To breath, I lift my head up and then I need to get my head back down and in stream line position as quick as possible. Stomach should be slightly flexed to hold your core together better. Do 25 out like this and then swim 25 back normally and try to feel the difference.
2014-09-01 9:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
Originally posted by chris948

I posted a while back with a video, still working on a lot of the same stuff it seems. Elbows are higher, legs are closer together but still need a more compact kick.

Still struggling with the left hand tilting upward on entry, I think this is my poorly executed attempt at "feel", also I think I'm not rolling enough to air, more like turning, which puts me in something resembling a C instead of straight, most obvious at around :42

Anything else? I'm disturbingly not good, about a 1:45 100m repeat swimmer, run out of breath very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2BAdJYqpBQ


You need to post up a video from above. The main issue seems to be your arms, they are doing something whacky, it's hard to see without seeing a video from above the water and would help if it were slow motion, but it looks like your hand is entering the water too short, your hand/arm goes down, then up then straightens. It effectively acts as a brake. Just watch a few videos on youtube e.g watch the first few seconds of this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvM3JYC--hM

Note how the arm enters the water, the swimmer stretches his arm right out, long body, then he enters the catch and pull

I'd suggest using fins and swimming one arm only. Watch the arm as it enters the water, you'll notice what you're doing wrong and should be able to rectify it.


also

- you're not as face down as you could be, you need to be looking directly downwards, your legs are dropping as a result
- you're turning your head to breath, turn your body
- when your arm completes the catch and pull and exits the water, the hand should be brushing the hip, you are pulling yours out too early, losing power, a drill to fix this is to deliberately brush your hip with your fingers
- your arms are shoulder width apart, which is ok, but as you complete your pull, your hand is a good 3 inches from your body, it comes in to your body, again easy to rectify with the above drill
- legs are getting splayed when you kick, probably because you're twisting your head to breathe rather than your body
- feet need to point more, stretch your foot right down, imagine your leg and foot are fused together
- there's too much flex at the knee with your kick
- running out of breath - it looks like from the lack of bubbles you;re holding your breath, you should be slowly breathing out, then breathing in. Never holding your breath even when tumble turning and never breathing out when you turn your head to breath in. Always breathe out underwater
- hard to tell from the video, but it looks like your hands are flapping about quite a bit as well. Look at the video link I posted and watch how little flex there is with his wrists. I get the impression that although you have got a high vertical elbow, it's somehow ineffective. You're possibly going for the path of least resistance, getting your arms moving through the water "efficiently" and by efficient I mean moving through the water quickly, minimizing resistance. You don't want that. You want resistance. You want your arms to feel like they are moving through treacle. That resistance is generating power. Your arms will get tired, you'll start feeling your lats getting sore, this is good.




Edited by zedzded 2014-09-01 9:36 PM
2014-09-02 7:49 AM
in reply to: zedzded

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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
Originally posted by Blastman
A drill my coach gave me was to put my arms at the side and using only my legs to get to the other side. Head is down, chest is down, and legs are together and I use short small kicks to move.


thanks, so chest is down like both shoulders in the water or one shoulder out? I'll give it a shot, have to admit seems like a great way to sink feet first... :-)



Originally posted by zedzded
You need to post up a video from above. The main issue seems to be your arms, they are doing something whacky, it's hard to see without seeing a video from above the water and would help if it were slow motion, but it looks like your hand is entering the water too short, your hand/arm goes down, then up then straightens. It effectively acts as a brake. Just watch a few videos on youtube e.g watch the first few seconds of this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvM3JYC--hM

Note how the arm enters the water, the swimmer stretches his arm right out, long body, then he enters the catch and pull

I'd suggest using fins and swimming one arm only. Watch the arm as it enters the water, you'll notice what you're doing wrong and should be able to rectify it.


also

- you're not as face down as you could be, you need to be looking directly downwards, your legs are dropping as a result
- you're turning your head to breath, turn your body
- when your arm completes the catch and pull and exits the water, the hand should be brushing the hip, you are pulling yours out too early, losing power, a drill to fix this is to deliberately brush your hip with your fingers
- your arms are shoulder width apart, which is ok, but as you complete your pull, your hand is a good 3 inches from your body, it comes in to your body, again easy to rectify with the above drill
- legs are getting splayed when you kick, probably because you're twisting your head to breathe rather than your body
- feet need to point more, stretch your foot right down, imagine your leg and foot are fused together
- there's too much flex at the knee with your kick
- running out of breath - it looks like from the lack of bubbles you;re holding your breath, you should be slowly breathing out, then breathing in. Never holding your breath even when tumble turning and never breathing out when you turn your head to breath in. Always breathe out underwater
- hard to tell from the video, but it looks like your hands are flapping about quite a bit as well. Look at the video link I posted and watch how little flex there is with his wrists. I get the impression that although you have got a high vertical elbow, it's somehow ineffective. You're possibly going for the path of least resistance, getting your arms moving through the water "efficiently" and by efficient I mean moving through the water quickly, minimizing resistance. You don't want that. You want resistance. You want your arms to feel like they are moving through treacle. That resistance is generating power. Your arms will get tired, you'll start feeling your lats getting sore, this is good.


thanks, that's a bullet list that will last me for months. I swam some this morning, rotating instead of twisting my head did seem to help fix the kick, and it helped with the catch I think, easier to focus on staying straight when not bent. Nice side affect, rotating well gave me a bit more time to breath.

the pull ends early because I'm weak. I do feel resistance, so they give up halfway through. I'll keep working on it.

thanks
2014-09-03 2:29 PM
in reply to: chris948

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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
Originally posted by chris948

I posted a while back with a video, still working on a lot of the same stuff it seems. Elbows are higher, legs are closer together but still need a more compact kick.

Still struggling with the left hand tilting upward on entry, I think this is my poorly executed attempt at "feel", also I think I'm not rolling enough to air, more like turning, which puts me in something resembling a C instead of straight, most obvious at around :42

Anything else? I'm disturbingly not good, about a 1:45 100m repeat swimmer, run out of breath very quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2BAdJYqpBQ


Looks like the head is being pushed a bit too low, let it float. The left leg is doing ALL the work..kicking when the left arm goes in and when the right arm goes in, at lest in the final side view. Get a tempo trainer and slow your tempo down a bit so you can feel what's happening in your entry and extension a bit easier. I see a lot of power being put into the stroke...everything is powerful, and while overall it's not bad, you can use a little less energy and get the same effectiveness you currently have. (then later you can go faster)
2014-09-04 8:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
There are two lynchpins i can spot in your stroke that might unlock a lot of other issues. First, while your roll on your non-breathe side looks good, you don't roll enough on your breathe side (left). This is affecting your head position, how much you turn your head vs use your body to breathe, and is probably what's triggering that strong left side kick AdventureBear pointed out. With a more balanced roll, your hips and shoulders will be more aligned and that kick won't need to be as enormous. The other thing I see which you noticed this as well in your original post (clearest at around :30 in the video) is that you're doing what I call 'flaring' - your hand enters the water fine, but your fingertips and palm start to bend back, like you're making a 'stop' sign. This is of course anti-propulsive, but it has the other lovely effect of pushing your head up and your legs down. Part of getting a good early vertical forearm is getting that arm to be down way ahead of your head, and it takes a lot of stretching and work to ingrain. No chance with that flaring.

If those two big things are fixed, you could turn attention to working on your kick, which is a little strange. Your right leg really just appears to be along for the ride! Since chopping it off is out of the question, you'd do well to just put the hours in working on strengthening your kick and integrating it into your stroke better. A two beat kick is absolutely fine, and for some the best choice, but it's good to have a few different kick patterns in your repertoire. Your muscular predilection might be to fatigue faster with a two beat than with a six beat, who knows but you. Your observation that you're running out of breath could be partially due to that, or you could be holding your breath from lack of comfort\experience. Swimming more will fix that over time, no quick fix for that!


Edited by fisherman76 2014-09-04 8:53 AM


2014-09-04 1:22 PM
in reply to: fisherman76

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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
thanks, I saw the head turning and bad arms but missed the right foot issues, it seems to be better in the first half (not exactly good) but obviously worse in the 2nd half of the video, by then I was pretty wasted, so coordination was leaving.

I can't do a 6 beat with any sort of rythm, just can't. Two beat is hard enough to get the right foot/left hand left foot/right hand coordination, obviously it's still a struggle.

I've been rolling more, which dramatically helps. How far down should my arm be "way ahead of your head"? I was taught early on it's basically like reaching far over my head, which is as parallel to the water as possible. I can't say I have anything to reference with entry.

2014-09-04 2:26 PM
in reply to: chris948

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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
Originally posted by chris948

thanks, I saw the head turning and bad arms but missed the right foot issues, it seems to be better in the first half (not exactly good) but obviously worse in the 2nd half of the video, by then I was pretty wasted, so coordination was leaving.

I can't do a 6 beat with any sort of rythm, just can't. Two beat is hard enough to get the right foot/left hand left foot/right hand coordination, obviously it's still a struggle.

I've been rolling more, which dramatically helps. How far down should my arm be "way ahead of your head"? I was taught early on it's basically like reaching far over my head, which is as parallel to the water as possible. I can't say I have anything to reference with entry.




Think about how your arm is attached to your body. If you reach out with arm parallel...what's the next movement of your hand? Unless you are an Olympian, Olympic Trials, NCAA Div 1 Superstar or up and rising 14 year old superstar, the next hand movement is DOWN towards the bottom of the pool as you try to create yoru catch. Some folks (Jonyo) have been able ot develop flexibility to do this movement as an adult, but IMO it's better to enter short of full extension, slice through the water as if placing your fingertips to forearm through a "slot" in the water, and extend to something slightly sloping down. Imagine that a model car or a marble was placed on your shoulder...it should roll off the shoulder down your upper arm, past the elbow, down the forearm and off your fingertips. In otherwords, fingers, below wrist, below elbow below shoulder. This tradeoff in slightly less streamlined position from not being parallel with the water will allow you to create a more efficient catch with less braking or non propulsive movements while also protecting your shoulder joint from strain and injury.
2014-09-04 2:43 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Swim Critique Video, thanks
thank you
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