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2014-09-19 2:28 AM

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Subject: Sprint Tri Tactics
Hi.
Just wondering how people go about their tactics for a sprint tri. It's a 400m pool swim, 28km flat enough bike where even I'll be trying for 21mph, and a 6.25km flat run. (This is my second tri, on the 28th September)

For the swim - I'll be aiming for 5m45s, would trying to push an extra 15s off just be detrimental to the rest, as I would be blowing out my a** when I finish? How do you feel when you exit the swim?

For the bike - Are there any tactics you employ? I read somewhere that a high cadence at the end can encourage a quicker run, but only over a mile or so (I think, from what I remember). If you are wanting to average 21mph, do you start at 20 to ease in, 21 for middle, then 22 for end? How do you feel at the of the bike?

For the run - Do you ease your legs in to it or power through the jelly leg feel like a trooper? Do you try for negative km splits? I'm guessing the feeling at the end should be one of "oh my God, I'm going to die!!"?

Thanks in advance!


2014-09-19 2:56 AM
in reply to: Eucid


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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Originally posted by Eucid

Hi.
Just wondering how people go about their tactics for a sprint tri. It's a 400m pool swim, 28km flat enough bike where even I'll be trying for 21mph, and a 6.25km flat run. (This is my second tri, on the 28th September)

For the swim - I'll be aiming for 5m45s, would trying to push an extra 15s off just be detrimental to the rest, as I would be blowing out my a** when I finish? How do you feel when you exit the swim?

For the bike - Are there any tactics you employ? I read somewhere that a high cadence at the end can encourage a quicker run, but only over a mile or so (I think, from what I remember). If you are wanting to average 21mph, do you start at 20 to ease in, 21 for middle, then 22 for end? How do you feel at the of the bike?

For the run - Do you ease your legs in to it or power through the jelly leg feel like a trooper? Do you try for negative km splits? I'm guessing the feeling at the end should be one of "oh my God, I'm going to die!!"?

Thanks in advance!


Swim - I normally go out hard, 90%, get my position sorted, drop speed slightly until I feel semi-comfortable, breathing hard though, last 200m of swim is flat out (swim = 750m)

Bike - I'm normally breathing very hard from swim, but am able to recover as I go through T1, getting on back etc, by the time I've pedalled up to speed I've recovered sufficiently to start going hard. Normally on the bike I've very focused on my average speed, I will know I need to average X km/hr and will work around that.

Run - Sprint = 5km, legs usually bit heavy, run off after 1 - 2 mins and get into a rhythm. I need to work on pacing myself better. I normally feel really good despite heavy legs and go out to hard, then slow on kms 2 - 3.5 before finishing strongly. Ideally for a 5km sprint tri I'd like my splits to be something like this:

1 - 4.10
2 - 4.05
3 - 4
4 - 3.45
5 - 3.35

Last few sprints I've done km 1 has been 3.45ish - too fast and I end up fading - finishing much slower.
2014-09-19 4:56 AM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Depending on how long you will take to finish but for someone who is going to race around an hour, I would suggest something like this:

Swim - go out for 250-300 at higher than race pace then settle in at about open 1500m pace and try to follow feet.

Bike - take the first 30-60s a little easier and settle in; lock yourself into aero and try to ride at about open 40km effort. Try to ride as steady as possible and back off a bit over the last 500m or so to ease the transition.

Run - try to come off the bike at open 10k pace or slightly slower and hold steady through 5k. Then push with whatever you've got let through the finish.

This assumes 750m/20km/5km so for your race I'd adjust a bit but this should get you in the ballpark.

Shane
2014-09-19 5:46 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

Originally posted by gsmacleod Depending on how long you will take to finish but for someone who is going to race around an hour, I would suggest something like this: Swim - go out for 250-300 at higher than race pace then settle in at about open 1500m pace and try to follow feet. Bike - take the first 30-60s a little easier and settle in; lock yourself into aero and try to ride at about open 40km effort. Try to ride as steady as possible and back off a bit over the last 500m or so to ease the transition. Run - try to come off the bike at open 10k pace or slightly slower and hold steady through 5k. Then push with whatever you've got let through the finish. This assumes 750m/20km/5km so for your race I'd adjust a bit but this should get you in the ballpark. Shane

I'm a ~1 hour sprint racer and this is pretty much what I do.  very important for me to settle into an easier swim pace to set myself up for a strong bike/run; if you are a really strong swimmer that may not be best for you though.  I usually ride a little easier than my 40k pace on the bike, but that's because I need to swim more.

2014-09-19 5:54 AM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
I can't give any advise on the swim (incredibly poor swimmer, hence concentrating on duathlons!)…

For the bike, slowly build your speed and make sure the first 1/2-1 mile, you get your legs going by pushing 1 gear easier than you normally would. To average 21mph, you need to hold around 22-24mph for the majority of the bike leg, if it's windy or rolling hills (that slow you down) then you need to be another 1-2mph above that on the flats to offset.

For the run, the first mile is a challenge and the only thing you can do is to do enough bricks before so you know how your body behaves when you get off the bike. Most struggle the first mile (basically dead legs…) but you can push through that. If you're not ready to tip over before the finish line, then you could've gone harder… The last 2km should be on pure will power.

In a sprint, don't over think it. Just go hard at all times.
2014-09-19 6:53 AM
in reply to: audiojan

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Can someone explain...
The OP's race has a pool swim. I can think of reasons for going out hard in a mass start event but I'm not sure why one would want to do this in a pool.
Thanks


2014-09-19 6:56 AM
in reply to: donw

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Missed the pool swim part - in that case I would go out a little faster (say open 400m pace for this race) to take advantage of being fresh and also to then settle into race pace (about open 800m pace).

Shane
2014-09-19 7:25 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

Originally posted by gsmacleod Depending on how long you will take to finish but for someone who is going to race around an hour, I would suggest something like this: Swim - go out for 250-300 at higher than race pace then settle in at about open 1500m pace and try to follow feet. Bike - take the first 30-60s a little easier and settle in; lock yourself into aero and try to ride at about open 40km effort. Try to ride as steady as possible and back off a bit over the last 500m or so to ease the transition. Run - try to come off the bike at open 10k pace or slightly slower and hold steady through 5k. Then push with whatever you've got let through the finish. This assumes 750m/20km/5km so for your race I'd adjust a bit but this should get you in the ballpark. Shane

^^^This^^^

Plus, for a race this short, a really good warm up is important.  15+ minute warmup that ends within 20 minutes of the time you're scheduled to start.

In a race this short, you can't afford to lose time warming up during the race.  You need to start with "heat in your motor" and able to go full race pace.

 

2014-09-19 7:33 AM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Tactics or pacing strategy? What is your goal for the race? Shane is providing a great template to follow to succeed at racing to your full potential/fitness. One other thing which is related to your training. You need to train with your race plan in mind. For example if you never do any session where your objective is to train your body & mind to go out faster than race pace before settling into a hard, sustained effort I am not sure it is a good idea to do this in a race. So I believe it is important to know how you plan to race in order to train properly for that race.

If you are competing as a race then the strategy will be free flowing depending on the dynamics of the race. You start with a general idea of what you intend to do based on your strengths & abilities & then react to the situations that happen during the race.
2014-09-19 10:01 AM
in reply to: 5stones

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Tactics or pacing strategy? Probably a bit of both. I understand the point of training with a race plan in mind. Wish I understood that when I signed up for it in July though...

Mainly just wondering how other approach a sprint.

Also if anyone had tactics they use. This is what I read, both tests are slightly different, but conflicting results.

http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2008/03/effect-of-cycling-cad...

2014-09-19 10:34 AM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
My approach to a sprint is not sophisticated, but here it is.
1) warm up then get through the swim. I am a slow swimmer.
2) I tend to blast through transitions. Then I spend the first couple hundred meters on the bike recovering from the swim.
3) Ride as hard as I can without redlining.
4) Run as hard as I can without redlining.
5) When I get close to the finish line, sprint it out with everything I have left in the tank.

Like I said, not sophisticated, but it works well enough for my 41 y.o. body to finish in the top 25-30%. I have only been doing this for two years (three if you count du) so the strategy may still be evolving.


2014-09-19 10:39 AM
in reply to: Eucid


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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
I will dissent from others and suggest that you not push your swim. At 400m, if you try to crush it, what's your gain? Think about your own experiences in the pool. How much time do you pick up between a hard 100 and a steady 100? For me, its about 6 seconds. That adds up to about 24 seconds. That extra 24 seconds requires a lot of extra effort.

When I see the distances, I feel like this is a biker's race. Versus a typical sprint, it's a short pool swim, 5 miles longer on the bike, and slightly less than a mile more on the run. I think this race is won on the bike so long as you have a decent run.

If it were me:

For the swim, I wouldn't go slow, but also not push it. I'm conserving efforts and not wasting one bullet here unless I get stuck behind someone and need to get around them. I would take advantage of flip turns and pushing off the walls but laying off too much dolphin kicking. This is even more true if its a 25m pool. If you can flip and get good pushes off the walls, you can float to the other end and out race a lot of the triathlete's in attendance.

I would hammer the bike. Get as aero as possible, put my head down and drill it. No bottles, no cages on the bike unless it's going to be hot. I'd take a couple minutes to ease into it, but after that, I'm on the rivet the entire way.

For the run, I'd probably target my open 5k pace plus 20 seconds and go from there. I run by feel so I'll either have to back it off a tad or pick it up some, but that's my starting point. It's pretty much a hang on as long as possible type run.
2014-09-19 11:58 AM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Originally posted by ziggie204

I will dissent from others and suggest that you not push your swim. At 400m, if you try to crush it, what's your gain? Think about your own experiences in the pool. How much time do you pick up between a hard 100 and a steady 100? For me, its about 6 seconds. That adds up to about 24 seconds. That extra 24 seconds requires a lot of extra effort.

When I see the distances, I feel like this is a biker's race. Versus a typical sprint, it's a short pool swim, 5 miles longer on the bike, and slightly less than a mile more on the run. I think this race is won on the bike so long as you have a decent run.

If it were me:

For the swim, I wouldn't go slow, but also not push it. I'm conserving efforts and not wasting one bullet here unless I get stuck behind someone and need to get around them. I would take advantage of flip turns and pushing off the walls but laying off too much dolphin kicking. This is even more true if its a 25m pool. If you can flip and get good pushes off the walls, you can float to the other end and out race a lot of the triathlete's in attendance.

I would hammer the bike. Get as aero as possible, put my head down and drill it. No bottles, no cages on the bike unless it's going to be hot. I'd take a couple minutes to ease into it, but after that, I'm on the rivet the entire way.

For the run, I'd probably target my open 5k pace plus 20 seconds and go from there. I run by feel so I'll either have to back it off a tad or pick it up some, but that's my starting point. It's pretty much a hang on as long as possible type run.



I'm liking the swim advice, my turns are okay and I try to always stay submerged for about 5-7m. Yeah, it's a 25m pool, so at 5m x 16 turns/push offs, it's 80m not doing much. And the run seems sensible too.

With the bike, will taking no fluid not be detrimental? Or do you take on lots in beforehand and T1? I'm on a roadie with aerobars, so my aero isn't amazingly aero.
2014-09-19 12:39 PM
in reply to: Eucid


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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

Agree with the advice above.

 

I would caution that with pool swims, unless you're extremely lucky to be sent off with people just faster than you ahead, there is a high probability that your swim performance will be limited by congestion from those ahead or at the walls. So I would caution against trying to make a big dent in your race time by outperforming on the swim - if anything, I would plan on expecting to underswim the pool segment (due to congestion), and being ready to hammer it on the bike and run as described above.

2014-09-19 12:43 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Luckily I'm in the last wave and they are being set off 10 minutes apart. There seem to be 11 set off in my wave, Maybe it'll be 2 per lane, one right and one left? So hopefully congestion wont be a problem. I'm not sure. In my first tri, just as I was about to overtake the person in front, he finished, so I had clear water.
2014-09-19 12:46 PM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Originally posted by Eucid

With the bike, will taking no fluid not be detrimental? Or do you take on lots in beforehand and T1? I'm on a roadie with aerobars, so my aero isn't amazingly aero.


Nothing in T1 (or T2); if you are trying to go as fast as possible, transition is not the time to fuel/hydrate. I would carry a small bottle on the bike and drink to thirst - either water or sports drink depending on your preference.

Shane


2014-09-19 12:59 PM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Originally posted by ziggie204
For the swim, I wouldn't go slow, but also not push it. I'm conserving efforts and not wasting one bullet here unless I get stuck behind someone and need to get around them.I would take advantage of flip turns and pushing off the walls but laying off too much dolphin kicking. This is even more true if its a 25m pool. If you can flip and get good pushes off the walls, you can float to the other end and out race a lot of the triathlete's in attendance.

I would hammer the bike. Get as aero as possible, put my head down and drill it. No bottles, no cages on the bike unless it's going to be hot. I'd take a couple minutes to ease into it, but after that, I'm on the rivet the entire way.

For the run, I'd probably target my open 5k pace plus 20 seconds and go from there. I run by feel so I'll either have to back it off a tad or pick it up some, but that's my starting point. It's pretty much a hang on as long as possible type run.



Agreed for the most part, definitely with the bolded bit. I'll add\echo what Shane said earlier, the last couple minutes on the bike I would get my HR lower than where I held it for most of the bike (ie redline!!!) so I wasn't anxious and overdrawn in transition. You should be chill in transition. The focus required to overcome the dead legs and run a right and proper 5K is no joke.
2014-09-19 1:04 PM
in reply to: fisherman76

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

Here's something to consider.....how long is the run from the swim to the transition area......if it's long, you can make up or lose huge ground there.

2014-09-19 1:06 PM
in reply to: Eucid


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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

Originally posted by Eucid Luckily I'm in the last wave and they are being set off 10 minutes apart. There seem to be 11 set off in my wave, Maybe it'll be 2 per lane, one right and one left? So hopefully congestion wont be a problem. I'm not sure. In my first tri, just as I was about to overtake the person in front, he finished, so I had clear water.

 

Could be ok. Still, I'd be cautious - just imagine if the 2 people in the lane are only 2sec/100 apart in ability. If the slower one got a slightly better jump out of the gate, the faster swimmer would be continually lagging, unable to make a pass as he wouldn't be fast enough to overtake the entire body length of the slower swimmer. Still, it's sounds better than pool swims I've done where sendoff was every 10 seconds, and I rapidly ran into feet in front despite seeding by time.

2014-09-19 1:53 PM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

For the swim, the pacing advice is all fine, but have you checked through the rules to see what you can and can't do since it's in a pool? Do you understand the format and have you checked on the use of flip turns and passing allowances? This varies by race. Some do and some don't allow flip turns. Some can only pass at the wall where others are as you see fit. For swimmers none of this would be an issue, but since this is a triathlon the pool will be full of triathletes most of the time and some need to be saved from themselves.

2014-09-19 4:55 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

This is just my approach since you asked.  This is a sprint.  In general a sprint is a race that takes 1-1.5 hours.  That is an almost all out race.  Yes, you don't want to "blow up", but at that distance and time, each leg should be above 90% effort.  If you are well trained, you should be able to hold 90% for an hour.  Pacing etc. doesn't really come into effect until Olympic and longer.  

You can look for other opportunites to make up time though.  5k (go barefoot), quick transitions.  Make sure your area is set up well.  Carry only 1 smaller water bottle (your only on the bike for about 30 minutes).  Run water stations, don't walk.  Every second counts in a sprint.

Coming into t2, you should be riding with your feet out of your shoes and on top of them, so you can just run with your bike (shoes on pedals).

Finally ride the course beforehand.  Know where you can and should attack.  Know where there are rough spots.

Good luck and have fun!!!! #1 Point



Edited by velocomp 2014-09-19 4:56 PM


2014-09-19 4:56 PM
in reply to: Eucid


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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Originally posted by Eucid

Originally posted by ziggie204

I will dissent from others and suggest that you not push your swim. At 400m, if you try to crush it, what's your gain? Think about your own experiences in the pool. How much time do you pick up between a hard 100 and a steady 100? For me, its about 6 seconds. That adds up to about 24 seconds. That extra 24 seconds requires a lot of extra effort.

When I see the distances, I feel like this is a biker's race. Versus a typical sprint, it's a short pool swim, 5 miles longer on the bike, and slightly less than a mile more on the run. I think this race is won on the bike so long as you have a decent run.

If it were me:

For the swim, I wouldn't go slow, but also not push it. I'm conserving efforts and not wasting one bullet here unless I get stuck behind someone and need to get around them. I would take advantage of flip turns and pushing off the walls but laying off too much dolphin kicking. This is even more true if its a 25m pool. If you can flip and get good pushes off the walls, you can float to the other end and out race a lot of the triathlete's in attendance.

I would hammer the bike. Get as aero as possible, put my head down and drill it. No bottles, no cages on the bike unless it's going to be hot. I'd take a couple minutes to ease into it, but after that, I'm on the rivet the entire way.

For the run, I'd probably target my open 5k pace plus 20 seconds and go from there. I run by feel so I'll either have to back it off a tad or pick it up some, but that's my starting point. It's pretty much a hang on as long as possible type run.



I'm liking the swim advice, my turns are okay and I try to always stay submerged for about 5-7m. Yeah, it's a 25m pool, so at 5m x 16 turns/push offs, it's 80m not doing much. And the run seems sensible too.

With the bike, will taking no fluid not be detrimental? Or do you take on lots in beforehand and T1? I'm on a roadie with aerobars, so my aero isn't amazingly aero.


I usually don't carry water on sprints. I'll take down some water on the run course, but that's it. Unless it's hot, then I'll take water. No special hydration before. But I usually finish in a little over an hour, so adjust for how long you'll be out there. Maybe with the longer bike, I'd consider some water.
2014-09-19 10:32 PM
in reply to: Eucid

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
I go hard until I puke. Hopefully thats at the line.
2014-09-19 11:18 PM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics

Originally posted by velocomp

This is just my approach since you asked.  This is a sprint.  In general a sprint is a race that takes 1-1.5 hours.  That is an almost all out race.  Yes, you don't want to "blow up", but at that distance and time, each leg should be above 90% effort.  If you are well trained, you should be able to hold 90% for an hour.  Pacing etc. doesn't really come into effect until Olympic and longer.  

You can look for other opportunites to make up time though.  5k (go barefoot), quick transitions.  Make sure your area is set up well.  Carry only 1 smaller water bottle (your only on the bike for about 30 minutes).  Run water stations, don't walk.  Every second counts in a sprint.

Coming into t2, you should be riding with your feet out of your shoes and on top of them, so you can just run with your bike (shoes on pedals).

Finally ride the course beforehand.  Know where you can and should attack.  Know where there are rough spots.

Good luck and have fun!!!! #1 Point

When you think about it, that first paragraph doesn't really make sense.

2014-09-20 5:50 AM
in reply to: max.bennett

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Subject: RE: Sprint Tri Tactics
Originally posted by max.bennett

On the bike you want to bike like normal for the majority of the race. When you near the end of the bike, 5ish kilometers to the end, drop your chain into an easier gear and pick up your cadence. This will help flush out some lactic acid. Stretch your hips and get ready for the run. You may slow down a little but it will even out with a faster run. Once you get on the run, just go. Don't think about any pain or soreness until you actually feel it. Once you start to feel your legs again you can ease into your pace. If you want to find out more information or watch videos about it from the experts go to this link and check out some more videos!

http://goo.gl/fXjvWN


If you are going to link http://triathlonresearch.orgin all of your posts, why not just put it in your signature?

Shane
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