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Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you? (Page 2)
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 2014-10-03 4:12 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran  2261    Ridgeland, Mississippi |  Subject: RE: Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you?Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by msteiner Sure ,but you still should be able to bounce back from the 60 TSS ride quicker than the 150 TSS ride. An experiment - try the following: Workout 1 - TSS approximately 150 Ride steady at 70% of FTP for 2 hours Workout 2 - TSS approximately 60 10 minutes at 60% FTP 5x10s all out, 50s 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 4x5:00 at 110% FTP, 3:00 60%FTP 10 minutes at 60% FTP Shane Your second workout sounds like Sufferfest's "A Very Dark Place", which is one of my favorite workouts. It's intense, but you should be able to ride again the next day or two and be fine. If you can't, then riding more miles might be in order anyway. |
| 2014-10-03 4:58 PM in reply to: msteiner |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you? Originally posted by msteiner Your second workout sounds like Sufferfest's "A Very Dark Place", which is one of my favorite workouts. It's intense, but you should be able to ride again the next day or two and be fine. If you can't, then riding more miles might be in order anyway. You should certainly be able to ride the day after workout 2 - it is however unlikely that you will be recovered and ready to do it again. OTOH, many would be able to do the first workout for several days in a row despite that fact that TSS says that it is 2.5 times as stressful. Shane |
| 2014-10-03 9:23 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran 933 Connecticut | Subject: RE: Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you? Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by msteiner Sure ,but you still should be able to bounce back from the 60 TSS ride quicker than the 150 TSS ride. An experiment - try the following: Workout 1 - TSS approximately 150 Ride steady at 70% of FTP for 2 hours Workout 2 - TSS approximately 60 10 minutes at 60% FTP 5x10s all out, 50s 60% FTP 5:00 60% FTP 4x5:00 at 110% FTP, 3:00 60%FTP 10 minutes at 60% FTP Shane I see what you did there  the 30 second trailing sample gets ripped wide open. Nice. By the way, what is the goal of that session (#2)? I see that as a good and bloody warmup followed by some quality time spent at threshold, but it's short. Just curious. That's a GOOD workout. And yes, counts as 'easy' on the scale, although (possibly) deceptively. But that makes you a good coach, and THAT is an important point. The numbers are slippery and ultimately not that important. See, now you are the kind of guy who I think would get behind an idea like this. The numbers might help, but they might not, so let them just be traffic lights. Learn to listen to your body, learn where your limits are and how to push them. The data might not corroborate the story. Training smart doesn't mean you have a lot of numbers. |
| 2014-10-03 10:43 PM in reply to: fisherman76 |
| Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you? Some terms were switched, but I think you mean Workout #2? With the 4 x 5' @110%, that is solidly in Z5 for a VO2 focused workout. It's not a workout to do two days in a row, even if someone is actually able to pull it off. And a combination like the pair listed is what I was thinking. Workout 1 is not really *that* tough to do and can be done several days in a row. It's actually ~3 hrs @70% to get to 150, but even ~100 for 2 hrs is still greater than the 60 for workout 2. Workouts like these aren't necessarily that unusual. |
| 2014-10-04 5:29 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you? Originally posted by brigby1 Some terms were switched, but I think you mean Workout #2? With the 4 x 5' @110%, that is solidly in Z5 for a VO2 focused workout. It's not a workout to do two days in a row, even if someone is actually able to pull it off. And a combination like the pair listed is what I was thinking. Workout 1 is not really *that* tough to do and can be done several days in a row. It's actually ~3 hrs @70% to get to 150, but even ~100 for 2 hrs is still greater than the 60 for workout 2. Workouts like these aren't necessarily that unusual. You're right - I was thinking 50 TSS per hour and then for some reason wrote 150 for 2 hours instead of 3. As mentioned above, the 110% will be moving into level 5 for many (some might need to go harder) but it is designed as a supra-threshold effort and certainly not something you want to do day after day. There was a thread on the wattage forum about trying to do a VO2max workout with a TSS over 100 in less than an hour. I don't remember if anyone actually pulled it off but there were a few possible ways suggested to do it. For me the key is that while TSS and other models provide insight into training stress, fatigue, etc, they do not tell the whole story and one cannot simply focus on a number. Shane |
| 2014-10-04 12:25 PM in reply to: #5056512 |
New user 140 Sanford, Florida | Subject: RE: Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you? The most important thing to see is that my heart rate staying the same at a faster pace. I also like my Polar V800 that takes not only your training, but ALL activities into consideration for determine your recovery rate. |
| 2014-10-05 9:07 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Is Data Analysis REALLY important to you? Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by brigby1 You're right - I was thinking 50 TSS per hour and then for some reason wrote 150 for 2 hours instead of 3. As mentioned above, the 110% will be moving into level 5 for many (some might need to go harder) but it is designed as a supra-threshold effort and certainly not something you want to do day after day. There was a thread on the wattage forum about trying to do a VO2max workout with a TSS over 100 in less than an hour. I don't remember if anyone actually pulled it off but there were a few possible ways suggested to do it. For me the key is that while TSS and other models provide insight into training stress, fatigue, etc, they do not tell the whole story and one cannot simply focus on a number. Shane Some terms were switched, but I think you mean Workout #2? With the 4 x 5' @110%, that is solidly in Z5 for a VO2 focused workout. It's not a workout to do two days in a row, even if someone is actually able to pull it off. And a combination like the pair listed is what I was thinking. Workout 1 is not really *that* tough to do and can be done several days in a row. It's actually ~3 hrs @70% to get to 150, but even ~100 for 2 hrs is still greater than the 60 for workout 2. Workouts like these aren't necessarily that unusual. I'm know I'm late to the party, but I agree with the bold. IMO, the primary other considerations in addition to CTL, ATL, and TSB are specificity and the individual's ability to recover. For example, in the "off season", training tends to focus on pushing up threshold paces, so the differences between the two examples that Shane gave aren't as relevant, because you're unlikely to be doing a 3 hour ride at 70%. As a result, the type of training stress from week to week is relatively consistent, so tools like Training Peaks Performance Management Chart work. The same can be said for race-specific training a few months later. Regarding ability to recover, I've found that some people are fine to hit a -20 TSB for a few days every couple weeks while others have trouble recovering and may get sick if we get to -10 or -12 for more than a few days. Everything should be verified by monitoring subjective feelings. I want athletes to include a couple words about how they felt during every session in their training logs. Words like strong, tired, fresh, strong, dead, flat, etc. checked against the data for a session and their TSB can provide insight into how well they are handling the training load.
Edited by TriMyBest 2014-10-05 9:08 AM |
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