General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HIIT training; who is crazy to do it? Rss Feed  
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2014-10-14 2:43 PM

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Subject: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Hi guys and girls,

Someone told me that I can improve my cardiovascular fitness faster than just with swimming, cycling or running.

So I took the HIIT challenge.................................................

And now I'm dead.

Is this a good idea?


2014-10-14 2:57 PM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?

HIIT seems to have taken on more than one form, what specifically were you doing?

A good s/b/r development plan is going to involve some rather high intensity at times.

2014-10-15 3:14 AM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by Martine1975

Hi guys and girls,

Someone told me that I can improve my cardiovascular fitness faster than just with swimming, cycling or running.

So I took the HIIT challenge.................................................

And now I'm dead.

Is this a good idea?


Dead doesn't sound good to me
2014-10-15 7:28 AM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
I used to do a workout called the "Sprint Eight Workout." It was five minutes warm up followed by 8 x 30 seconds as hard as you can go (you should feel like the last five seconds that you are close to failure, if you get to 30 seconds and think you could have gone 5-10 more seconds then you are not going hard enough) with 90 seconds super easy recovery between intervals. Five minutes cool down. Works great for running but you can do it with any sport...... cycling, swimming, jump rope, elliptical, rowing, etc.

I loved this workout. Whole thing done in 26 minutes. Great calorie burn. Felt like it improved my fitness. It has been pointed out that the workout has very little application to triathlon but I would argue that increased fitness, no matter how you achieve it, should apply to an endurance sport.

I have been considering adding some HIIT type workouts back in to my training.
2014-10-15 7:43 AM
in reply to: #5059808

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
The workout I've been doing was a non SBR workout. It is to be found at livestrong.com and it has things in it like burpees, jumping jacks, push ups etc.

Every time they do 1 minute full out, then 30 seconds steady and then 30 seconds full out and then a short break about 90 seconds.

My heart rate would go up to top zone 4 and then back to zone 1 for the full 30 minutes leaving me exhausted for a few hours!
2014-10-15 7:44 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?

In what way(s) do you feel like it improved your fitness?



2014-10-15 7:49 AM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Sounds like a great workout to have you ready to do burpees, jumping jacks, push ups etc at a hard effort for a short period of time, do active recovery for a bit then go hard again for a shorter period of time.

For improving SBR, likely not much benefit.

Shane
2014-10-15 7:52 AM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Just as soon as I get back to training, I plan on introducing 1 or 2 HIIT workouts a week.
They will be interspersed between my SBR training.
Probably means a couple of 2 a days. But I'm ok with that.
2014-10-15 8:05 AM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by gsmacleod

Sounds like a great workout to have you ready to do burpees, jumping jacks, push ups etc at a hard effort for a short period of time, do active recovery for a bit then go hard again for a shorter period of time.

For improving SBR, likely not much benefit.

Shane


I agree with the mantra that to get better at SBR you need to SBR more.

I still have a hard time seeing how improved overall cardiovascular fitness, no matter how you achieve it, is not going to indirectly help you with triathlon. I "feel" like I have lost a step since I gave up my "HIIT like" training..... Of course my times in triathlon have been getting faster so maybe my "feel" is a little off.

Shane, I will readily acknowledge that you have probably forgotten more about triathlon training than I will ever know.
2014-10-15 8:13 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?

Keep in mind that it's not just any benefit at all we're looking for, but to get the greatest adaptation from the energy spent. So improved cardio or other fitness aspects may actually help, but in a much more limited amount than if the session had been s/b/r. It's not the same activity, so it doesn't help as much as doing the activity. You doing HIIT in the form of running would have more effect than all the other things the OP did because it was running, but maybe not as great* as a more typical run session because the intensity sound like it was well above what your cardio system would work at. *-or maybe continued gains won't come for as long.

2014-10-15 10:54 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by brigby1

Keep in mind that it's not just any benefit at all we're looking for, but to get the greatest adaptation from the energy spent. So improved cardio or other fitness aspects may actually help, but in a much more limited amount than if the session had been s/b/r. It's not the same activity, so it doesn't help as much as doing the activity. You doing HIIT in the form of running would have more effect than all the other things the OP did because it was running, but maybe not as great* as a more typical run session because the intensity sound like it was well above what your cardio system would work at. *-or maybe continued gains won't come for as long.




I know. I fall in to this trap every time I post about my pet Sprint Eight workout. I knew when I was posting it I would get called to task for it

I like it.

I feel good after I do it.

I feel like I get a good all day "energy burn" for long after the workout is done (I believe there is some data out there about sustained calorie burn after maximal intensity workouts).

I feel like that, as a person gets older they start to lose that all out, maximal effort gear. I like to engage that effort level every once in awhile to try to stave off that loss.

It is not better than SBR for getting faster at SBR. It is just another workout you can/could do. If you have to choose between a SBR specific workout and an alternative (burpees, push-ups, calisthenics, rowing, whatever) you should probably do the SBR. If you occasionally have an extra 15-20 minutes a week, a very brief all out session can be fun (in a heart wrenching, sickening kind of way).

That is all.


2014-10-15 11:55 AM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by Martine1975

Hi guys and girls,

Someone told me that I can improve my cardiovascular fitness faster than just with swimming, cycling or running.

So I took the HIIT challenge.................................................

And now I'm dead.

Is this a good idea?


The point isn't to push yourself so hard that you feel "dead." It should feel tough but not so tough that you can't continue your day.

HIIT training can be an important part of any training-- whether you do it in the weight room or on the bike, run, or swim. But you need to balance effort with recovery to optimize how it fits into your training.
2014-10-15 12:10 PM
in reply to: #5060019

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
As I've mentioned in another thread, I am not going to be doing HIIT training anymore.

It has too much impact on me being fatigued again.
2014-10-15 12:17 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Sounds like a great workout to have you ready to do burpees, jumping jacks, push ups etc at a hard effort for a short period of time, do active recovery for a bit then go hard again for a shorter period of time.

For improving SBR, likely not much benefit.

Shane


I agree with the mantra that to get better at SBR you need to SBR more.

I still have a hard time seeing how improved overall cardiovascular fitness, no matter how you achieve it, is not going to indirectly help you with triathlon. I "feel" like I have lost a step since I gave up my "HIIT like" training..... Of course my times in triathlon have been getting faster so maybe my "feel" is a little off.

Shane, I will readily acknowledge that you have probably forgotten more about triathlon training than I will ever know.




Agreed! The toughest high intensity type cross fit workout I ever did was moderate squats supersetting with 1/4 mile sprints. It awakened my entire CV system, then, when getting back to running, was considerably faster. CV benefit is still CV benefit. The law of specificity of training isn't the ONLY principle

Edited by TJHammer 2014-10-15 12:17 PM
2014-10-15 12:35 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?

Originally posted by wannabefaster
Originally posted by brigby1

Keep in mind that it's not just any benefit at all we're looking for, but to get the greatest adaptation from the energy spent. So improved cardio or other fitness aspects may actually help, but in a much more limited amount than if the session had been s/b/r. It's not the same activity, so it doesn't help as much as doing the activity. You doing HIIT in the form of running would have more effect than all the other things the OP did because it was running, but maybe not as great* as a more typical run session because the intensity sound like it was well above what your cardio system would work at. *-or maybe continued gains won't come for as long.

I know. I fall in to this trap every time I post about my pet Sprint Eight workout. I knew when I was posting it I would get called to task for it I like it. I feel good after I do it. I feel like I get a good all day "energy burn" for long after the workout is done (I believe there is some data out there about sustained calorie burn after maximal intensity workouts). I feel like that, as a person gets older they start to lose that all out, maximal effort gear. I like to engage that effort level every once in awhile to try to stave off that loss. It is not better than SBR for getting faster at SBR. It is just another workout you can/could do. If you have to choose between a SBR specific workout and an alternative (burpees, push-ups, calisthenics, rowing, whatever) you should probably do the SBR. If you occasionally have an extra 15-20 minutes a week, a very brief all out session can be fun (in a heart wrenching, sickening kind of way). That is all.

Well, the intention wasn't so much to call anyone to task, but rather to think some more specifically about the costs & benefits. In what ways does this help beyond simply yes it does or no it doesn't. Two things come to mind for me would be to help become more use to pushing oneself very hard. Typically simpler to do with the shorter work sections (30"). That could be found in other activities too. The OP could have learned how to push herself much harder than previously thought in those exercises. I thought the run set would be more applicable because, well first it's running which is most certainly part of s/b/r. And the other is that it's running really fast. Helpful for running economy. My preference has been something like Daniels Repetition work. I think McMillan's Sprint work may be similar. Strides aren't really *that* different either.

The other side of this would be the cost. I think that largely comes down to how it affects your other workouts. Not just that day, but the time leading in and the recovery after. If the intensity is really going so hard that another 5" is not possible, not just increasing really not wanting to keep going, then I would have to be a little more rested going in to be sure I'm ok to execute and would need to be careful in the time after to recover from it. It is a short workout that may schedule in time wise, but it sounds like I would essentially have to replace another hard workout for it.

2014-10-15 12:44 PM
in reply to: TJHammer


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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by TJHammer

Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by gsmacleod

Sounds like a great workout to have you ready to do burpees, jumping jacks, push ups etc at a hard effort for a short period of time, do active recovery for a bit then go hard again for a shorter period of time.

For improving SBR, likely not much benefit.

Shane


I agree with the mantra that to get better at SBR you need to SBR more.

I still have a hard time seeing how improved overall cardiovascular fitness, no matter how you achieve it, is not going to indirectly help you with triathlon. I "feel" like I have lost a step since I gave up my "HIIT like" training..... Of course my times in triathlon have been getting faster so maybe my "feel" is a little off.

Shane, I will readily acknowledge that you have probably forgotten more about triathlon training than I will ever know.




Agreed! The toughest high intensity type cross fit workout I ever did was moderate squats supersetting with 1/4 mile sprints. It awakened my entire CV system, then, when getting back to running, was considerably faster. CV benefit is still CV benefit. The law of specificity of training isn't the ONLY principle


I think the point isn't that it won't help at all but that more SBR will HELP MORE with getting better at SBR.

I got to about 20 hours of training at my peak this year and I still couldn't fit in all the SBR workouts that I wanted to do. Partly because of time, but mostly because of fatigue. I just couldn't add to my training load and get quality workouts in. I couldn't imagine adding any other type of training, especially since they would not be the most ideal activities to improve my SBR fitness.

Because in reality, most of us are looking for the MOST IDEAL activities that will improve our SBR fitness, and crossfit or insanity, or really any other HIIT training is not the answer.

If you are looking for good all around fitness, then sure, work some other stuff in. And then those people who do that would probably crush me in 100 yards of lunges with kettlebells. And I am ok with that! I'll keep plugging away on the bike and we can see where everyone ends up when we race in a triathlon.


2014-10-15 1:47 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by gsmacleod

For improving SBR, likely not much benefit.

Shane


This, unless not.

The average person that I know running (including me) has running quirks compensating for weak muscles somewhere, you can usually say the same thing about swimming too.

A lot of those HIIT moves are great because they start at your core and strengthen muscles that a triathlete can benefit from. So will it improve your stroke or cut time off of your 10k? Probably not on its own, but it might keep you healthy and injury free definitely helps.
2014-10-15 2:56 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: HIIT training; who is crazy to do it?
Originally posted by wannabefaster

I agree with the mantra that to get better at SBR you need to SBR more.

I still have a hard time seeing how improved overall cardiovascular fitness, no matter how you achieve it, is not going to indirectly help you with triathlon. I "feel" like I have lost a step since I gave up my "HIIT like" training..... Of course my times in triathlon have been getting faster so maybe my "feel" is a little off.

Shane, I will readily acknowledge that you have probably forgotten more about triathlon training than I will ever know.


As I often say about strength training, there are many good reasons to do it, not the least of which is because you like doing it.

As you point out, you may have lost a bit of top end with more emphasis on SBR but since triathlon at the AG level rarely calls on maximum strength, you can still make significant improvements without emphasizing training that would fall into the realm of HIIT.

That doesn't mean that there is no value just that for someone whose goal is to be the fastest triathlete they can be, the focus should be primarily on SBR.

Shane
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