best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter?
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2014-10-17 8:44 PM |
48 Los Angeles, California | Subject: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? ok, so the more time I spend in each sport the more money I seem to spend in each sport now that I started spending more and more time on my bike I'm curious as to what's the best shoes+clipless setup for someone with zero experience with clipless and what would be a compatible beginner friendly (but not total junk) power meter? I never tried clipless shoes/pedals so I don't have to go all fancy but don't want to buy something unusable just because I don't know any better. I only have one bike so I'm not concerned with between bikes transition for the power meter. dcrainmaker reveiw of garmin vector is on the positive side but on amazon all the reviews are bad, is it really that horrible? what about powertap g3? if I already have complete bike how hard is it to install? can you install it on any bike or are there limitations? If there was a thread on that already I'd appreciate a link, I couldn't find anything helpful in the search |
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2014-10-17 9:24 PM in reply to: woosh |
Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Shimano makes some pretty solid pedals that are affordable. The R540 pedal runs around $40, and the 105 version is closer to $70 online. I have used both of those pedals on my road and tri bike for MANY MANY miles. As far as power meters go, right now we are just starting to see a huge shift in power meter pricing. DC Rainmaker expects that in the next couple of years, there will be power meters on the market that can read power from both legs (or as a total...not just doubling one leg) for around $400 brand new. That said, before investing in a power meter, I would advise getting one of the books about training with power, either by Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan, or the one by Phillip Skiba. Learn about what it takes to train with power and see if it interests you. A power meter in of itself does not make you faster. In fact, the unit itself makes you just a tad slower due to additional weight. It's how you use it in training and racing that will make you faster. You would be surprised at how many people own power meters that have no idea how to use it to make them faster. |
2014-10-17 11:37 PM in reply to: Jason N |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by Jason NIn fact, the unit itself makes you just a tad slower due to additional weight. You don't really think 200-250 grams of weight added to the crankset makes one slower, do you? |
2014-10-18 5:41 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by woosh what about powertap g3? if I already have complete bike how hard is it to install? can you install it on any bike or are there limitations? Each power meter has it's advantages and disadvantages. The main disadvantages of some are Price - for example Quarq, SRM are pricey Accuracy - Single leg power meters can have issues in certain specific applications and conditions Convenience - if swapping wheels/bikes/tires - If you have multiple wheels, HUB based PMs require multiple PMs. Swapping crank base also has details to consider The G3 is wheel/hub based. So if you are going to use multiple sets of wheels for racing, training and trainer, it has it's inconveniences. If you have 1 bike and rarely swap wheels it's a really good option. Probably the best Many people have a G3 wheel and put a disc cover for racing. Edited by marcag 2014-10-18 5:45 AM |
2014-10-18 7:57 AM in reply to: woosh |
467 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Shimano and Look both make good clipless pedals. I just picked up a set of Exustar Keo compatible pedals and I would not recommend them for first time user. They are a really good value, and I think I'll get them working well on a second bike. BUT, they are proving real difficult to get adjusted to release properly and as a beginner, you would not want any issues with release. Shameless plug: I have a used, older pair of Look Delta pedals that still spin perfectly, tension can be adjusted and work perfectly, white with one set of used cleats and a set of new cleats and cleat covers. I think it would be a great first time pedal set as it works perfectly and consistently releases etc. About $150 new, I'd ship the whole package for $25, PM if interested. |
2014-10-18 8:43 AM in reply to: woosh |
Expert 2373 Floriduh | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? A while ago I bought a new PowerCal power meter for like $50 off ebay. It is really different as it is a HRM strap that calculates power using HR rather than actually measuring power at cranks or hubs. At this point I have read all the reviews and compared the power numbers I get on a spin bike at the gym and I have to say the PowerCal is reasonably accurate. There are some clearly wonky things about it, like it records positive power even when you are not pedaling, but as a tool for training with power it does the trick, and for an order of magnitude less $. As far as shoes, that is a matter of fit. Pedals are a matter of preference, but I find Time iClics uber easy to get in/out of. |
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2014-10-18 11:26 AM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by GMAN 19030 Originally posted by Jason NIn fact, the unit itself makes you just a tad slower due to additional weight. You don't really think 200-250 grams of weight added to the crankset makes one slower, do you? Just a tad... I know that kind of weight will make almost zero difference, but those uneducated about power meters are probably the same ones that think 250 grams matter. I'm not trying to scare anyone off from power meters, but if you don't know how they work, or generally how to use them, you probably should do your homework. Just like those who know how much 250 grams will slow them down.
Edited by Jason N 2014-10-18 11:41 AM |
2014-10-20 1:17 PM in reply to: Oysterboy |
48 Los Angeles, California | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? thank you all for the feedback! I might check out powercal (Thanks Oysterboy! didn't know about powercal till you mentioned it) for now while I'm still learning the benefits of power meters. |
2014-10-20 1:18 PM in reply to: woosh |
48 Los Angeles, California | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? there seems to be two powercals on amazon though.. one says cycle ops on it and the other one powertap. is one of them an older version? if so which one? |
2014-10-20 1:34 PM in reply to: woosh |
Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by woosh there seems to be two powercals on amazon though.. one says cycle ops on it and the other one powertap. is one of them an older version? if so which one? Powertap is the power meter brand made by Cycle Ops. That said...I would say that a powercal is just as precise and accurate a training tool...as a heart rate monitor. The good news is though that the price of a powercal is not that much more than a HRM strap...and you still get HR reading off of it. |
2014-10-20 1:38 PM in reply to: Oysterboy |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by Oysterboy A while ago I bought a new PowerCal power meter for like $50 off ebay. It is really different as it is a HRM strap that calculates power using HR rather than actually measuring power at cranks or hubs. At this point I have read all the reviews and compared the power numbers I get on a spin bike at the gym and I have to say the PowerCal is reasonably accurate. There are some clearly wonky things about it, like it records positive power even when you are not pedaling, but as a tool for training with power it does the trick, and for an order of magnitude less $. As far as shoes, that is a matter of fit. Pedals are a matter of preference, but I find Time iClics uber easy to get in/out of. I don't mean this to be snarky, but you aren't trianing with power. You're training with HR that is then converted to a power metric (perhaps using some other inputs to help, like speed & cadence perhaps). I think one would be beter off just training with HR (and learning to understand what the HR is/isn't telling you) rather than using some 'HR-conversion' to guess at power output--which is almost guaranteed to be unreliable in many use cases. Or take the plunge and get 'full-fledged' power meter. |
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2014-10-20 3:38 PM in reply to: woosh |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Consider Speedplay pedals. They are very beginner friendly due to dual sided entry and "push down and it just works" ease of entry. Shimano SPD-SL and Look Keo are both single sided and take a bit of practice to get into, even if you don't have them upside down. Avoid cheap SPD style pedals (not to be confused with SPD-SL). SPD pedals use tiny cleats and entry takes practice. And they have a small surface area which tends to led to hot spots. In general, SPD is an old design and has been surpassed in most ways be newer designs. I have Garmin Vector, and have no issues. I'd give it 5 star reviews. I should go write one. What you should look for in a power meter is
This is why I bought Garmin. Direct measurement of both feet separately. Integration with Garmin 810 Edge is flawless. Easy upload via Garmin Connect to everywhere. Battery swap is 30 seconds with CR2032 button batteries. Swapping bikes is 20 minutes; fast enough for me. For me Garmin Vector was fire-and-forget. Works every time, rock solid. . All that made the $1700 worth it to me. Quarg won't swap between my two bikes because the cranks are not interchangeable. PowerTap won't work because I already own multiple sets of non-power-tap wheels. Various other crank based systems; well, I didn't really look into them just went to Garmin Vector.
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2014-10-20 3:50 PM in reply to: brucemorgan |
754 | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? I have been using Speedplay pedals for a couple years. I like them, mainly for the dual-sided entry, but they are not for everyone. Beginners and lighter riders can have a hard time unclipping. I think they have a Light Action version for people like that. Something to consider is whether you will be wearing road or mountain bike shoes. I had a hard time finding road bike shoes that fit, but I was able to find mtb shoes that I wore for the first couple years. For those, I used SPDs. The number of screws on the bottom of the shoe will be different based on the type, so that will affect what kind of cleats and pedals you use. Road bike shoes will be lighter, but mtb shoes will be easier to run through transition in. |
2014-10-20 4:35 PM in reply to: happyscientist |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by happyscientist I have been using Speedplay pedals for a couple years. I like them, mainly for the dual-sided entry, but they are not for everyone. Beginners and lighter riders can have a hard time unclipping. I think they have a Light Action version for people like that. Yes SpeedPlay Light Action are easier to get into and out of than regular SpeedPlay. We bought my daughter Light Action pedals when she went clipless, and she loves them. She was basically an expert on her 3rd ride. I was most impressed by how fast and effortless it seemed for her to gain that expertise. |
2014-10-20 5:47 PM in reply to: brucemorgan |
48 Los Angeles, California | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? alright, so I got Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan's book to get a better idea what is it that people dump so much money into when it comes to training with power meters and I think I'm sold on the idea of double sided easy in easy out speedplay light action. now is there anything I should know about shoes or is it just fit? also I noticed there are cycling shoes and tri shoes, what exactly is the difference between the two? don't you wear both just on the bike anyways? also it seems like Bruce is quite happy with Vector while most the reviews on Amazon seem to be negative. Anybody else has any experience with Vector? Would Vector be compatible with speedplay pedals? |
2014-10-20 6:10 PM in reply to: woosh |
Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by woosh alright, so I got Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan's book to get a better idea what is it that people dump so much money into when it comes to training with power meters and I think I'm sold on the idea of double sided easy in easy out speedplay light action. now is there anything I should know about shoes or is it just fit? also I noticed there are cycling shoes and tri shoes, what exactly is the difference between the two? don't you wear both just on the bike anyways? also it seems like Bruce is quite happy with Vector while most the reviews on Amazon seem to be negative. Anybody else has any experience with Vector? Would Vector be compatible with speedplay pedals? Vectors are specific to the look style pedal. The strain gauges are built into the pedal spindle, so it's not as simple as matching up the pod with any pedal you want. I don't own Vectors, but know at least 4 people that have had them. Three of them sent them back for various malfunctions. Anything from leaking grease to very wonky power numbers. I have a Quarq and have had pretty much zero issues with it, but I also know someone on BT who is on his 5th Quarq in 4 years. Same goes with Powertap. It was my first power meter and it worked great...as it did for many others...but I still know people that had to send theirs back multiple times. It can be hit or miss whether you get a reliable unit or not. Nothing seems 100%. The good news is all of the above companies have good customer service and a record for replacing faulty units. |
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2014-10-20 6:28 PM in reply to: woosh |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Originally posted by woosh alright, so I got Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan's book to get a better idea what is it that people dump so much money into when it comes to training with power meters and I think I'm sold on the idea of double sided easy in easy out speedplay light action. now is there anything I should know about shoes or is it just fit? also I noticed there are cycling shoes and tri shoes, what exactly is the difference between the two? don't you wear both just on the bike anyways? also it seems like Bruce is quite happy with Vector while most the reviews on Amazon seem to be negative. Anybody else has any experience with Vector? Would Vector be compatible with speedplay pedals? Couple of things. Hunter was recently interviewed on IMTalk and he was quite negative on 1 sided power meters It's normal that more people will post negative comments than positive That being said, my bro in law loves his Vectors and they track within 2% of his computrainer That being said, the Garmin Sharp team were dumping them and using SRM. This hurt their image IMO. |
2014-10-20 8:33 PM in reply to: woosh |
Master 2406 Bellevue, WA | Subject: RE: best beginner clipless shoes/pedals/powermeter? Vector uses Look Keo which are single sided, an offshoot similar to SPD-SL but not compatible. Sigh. You can read people's Vector experiences here on their forum: https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?424-Vector As usual with forums, people who don't have problems don't post. I've never posted anything there. Mine just works. BTW I see Garmin has a $900 single pod unit now, the Vector S https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/cycling/vector-s/prod167943.html And I see there is now a Garmin 1000, which beats my Garmin 810 with a better screen. Sigh. Always a new toy to blow my $$$ on... |
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