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2014-10-23 2:52 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by gsmacleod



But if the FDA is filled with criminals, then their endorsement of Ben Greenfield may be criminal. And if the superbody hacks, squatty potty, magic bracelet and special water don't work, then I don't eve know what to believe in.

Shane


FDA approval implies some studies (to ensure they aren't dangerous). So, if criminals are applying scientific method, then that double negative results in "good stuff"!


2014-10-23 3:37 PM
in reply to: dfroelich

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by dfroelich

Originally posted by gsmacleod



But if the FDA is filled with criminals, then their endorsement of Ben Greenfield may be criminal. And if the superbody hacks, squatty potty, magic bracelet and special water don't work, then I don't eve know what to believe in.

Shane


FDA approval implies some studies (to ensure they aren't dangerous). So, if criminals are applying scientific method, then that double negative results in "good stuff"!


Well now I'm just confused - I'll have to write out some truth tables to figure this out.

Shane
2014-10-23 4:55 PM
in reply to: #5062439

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Fasting isn't dangerous unless you do water fasting for more than 3 days.

Vegetables and fruit juice fasting can easily be done for a month without implications.
2014-10-23 4:59 PM
in reply to: #5062544

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
There are a lot of Muslims fasting in the month of Ramadan. Ramadan is in the summer now and when I was living in Holland the fast was 19 hours a day of NOT eating AND drinking.

All doctors in Holland will say that this isn't dangerous unless you have a serious health condition to start with.

Maybe all Muslims are dangerous living beings and all Dutch doctors are stupid.
2014-10-23 5:14 PM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by Martine1975

There are a lot of Muslims fasting in the month of Ramadan. Ramadan is in the summer now and when I was living in Holland the fast was 19 hours a day of NOT eating AND drinking.

All doctors in Holland will say that this isn't dangerous unless you have a serious health condition to start with.

Maybe all Muslims are dangerous living beings and all Dutch doctors are stupid.


I'm pretty sure that you are arguing a point that nobody made.

Shane
2014-10-23 5:28 PM
in reply to: #5062545

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
For those who say IF is dangerous and not to experiment with.


2014-10-23 5:32 PM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Well, it would seem that most responses were geared toward your original question of performance and fasting but, by all means, keeping presenting strawmen.

Shane
2014-10-23 5:47 PM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
i'm soo confused...first you post questions asking about it - like you've basically never heard of it and now you are maybe or maybe not supporting it - I can't tell from the vagarity of your posts
2014-10-23 7:19 PM
in reply to: austhokie

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
This thread is a perfect example of why I stopped coming over to the general forum a few years ago. Some people trying to actually have a decent discussion but then the OP kinda going off on weird tangents that don't make sense. Very strange. I should have known better than to check back in but its such a train wreck that I just couldn't help myself. Must....stop....reading....this...thread.
2014-10-23 8:41 PM
in reply to: Martine1975

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by Martine1975

No, it's not critical.

The guy who discovered that oranges cure scurvy was not believed.

The guy who discovered that apricot seeds cure cancer is not believed.

The FDA are criminals.


Do you realize that you just made me never want to read any post you write again?
2014-10-24 12:02 AM
in reply to: louiskie

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by louiskie

This thread is a perfect example of why I stopped coming over to the general forum a few years ago. Some people trying to actually have a decent discussion but then the OP kinda going off on weird tangents that don't make sense. Very strange. I should have known better than to check back in but its such a train wreck that I just couldn't help myself. Must....stop....reading....this...thread.


Since my education/opinion won't matter anyways...

Also can't help myself. Insert "Michael Jackson eating popcorn" gif here (I don't know how...anyone?)


2014-10-24 9:14 AM
in reply to: mndymond

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by mndymond

Originally posted by louiskie

This thread is a perfect example of why I stopped coming over to the general forum a few years ago. Some people trying to actually have a decent discussion but then the OP kinda going off on weird tangents that don't make sense. Very strange. I should have known better than to check back in but its such a train wreck that I just couldn't help myself. Must....stop....reading....this...thread.


Since my education/opinion won't matter anyways...

Also can't help myself. Insert "Michael Jackson eating popcorn" gif here (I don't know how...anyone?)


description
2014-10-24 9:14 AM
in reply to: mndymond

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by mndymond

Originally posted by louiskie

This thread is a perfect example of why I stopped coming over to the general forum a few years ago. Some people trying to actually have a decent discussion but then the OP kinda going off on weird tangents that don't make sense. Very strange. I should have known better than to check back in but its such a train wreck that I just couldn't help myself. Must....stop....reading....this...thread.


Since my education/opinion won't matter anyways...

Also can't help myself. Insert "Michael Jackson eating popcorn" gif here (I don't know how...anyone?)


can't figure out the whole gif thing, but you get the picture at least
2014-10-24 2:21 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance

Originally posted by AdventureBear Seems like it's worthy of consideration from a health point of view. I bolded the part I found most interesting. Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems. Mattson MP1, Wan R. Author information Abstract Intermittent fasting (IF; reduced meal frequency) and caloric restriction (CR) extend lifespan and increase resistance to age-related diseases in rodents and monkeys and improve the health of overweight humans. Both IF and CR enhance cardiovascular and brain functions and improve several risk factors for coronary artery disease and stroke including a reduction in blood pressure and increased insulin sensitivity. Cardiovascular stress adaptation is improved and heart rate variability is increased in rodents maintained on an IF or a CR diet. Moreover, rodents maintained on an IF regimen exhibit increased resistance of heart and brain cells to ischemic injury in experimental models of myocardial infarction and stroke. The beneficial effects of IF and CR result from at least two mechanisms--reduced oxidative damage and increased cellular stress resistance. Recent findings suggest that some of the beneficial effects of IF on both the cardiovascular system and the brain are mediated by brain-derived neurotrophic factor signaling in the brain. Interestingly, cellular and molecular effects of IF and CR on the cardiovascular system and the brain are similar to those of regular physical exercise, suggesting shared mechanisms. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms by which IF and CR affect the blood vessels and heart and brain cells will likely lead to novel preventative and therapeutic strategies for extending health span.

Agree. I have 5 studies sitting on my desk regarding the effects of training in the fasted state. I haven't read em all yet, but here are a few titles if you want to look em up.

"Beneficial metabolic adaptations due to endurance exercise training in the fasted state"

"Effects of timing of pre-exercise ingestion of carbohydrate on subsequent metabolism and cycling performance"

"Exercise in the fasted state facilitates fibre type-specific intramyocelluar lipid breakdown and stimulates glycogen resynthesis in humans"

 

 

 

2014-10-24 2:33 PM
in reply to: tjfry

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
TJ's post reminded me of this article which deals a bit with training in a fasted state:

http://www.inigomujika.com/en/2013/08/interviews-with-the-elite-lou...

Shane
2014-10-24 2:39 PM
in reply to: tjfry


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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
I'm loosely following a diet from the book "The Perfect Health Diet"

It recommends fasting for a 16 hour window and then eating for an 8 hour window. I tried this by having breakfast at 11am and then dinner at 7pm with lunch around 1.30pm and an afternoon meal around 4pm.

Whilst I was following this, I only trained after work, which was from 5pm to 6pm-6.30pm at nights and I trained in the afternoons in th weekends.

I'm a naturally skinny male (185cm tall and weigh 66kg) so weight loss wasn't the goal. I've been experimenting with LCHF (high fat, low carb), Paleo, Low FODMAP diets, etc over the past two years to try and rid myself of the IBS issues I'm having with my digestion after suffering internal damage after a bike crash two years ago.

Personally I've tried all these things but over time I have learnt to listen to my body. If I eat something and it upsets my stomach I won't eat it. If I eat something and my energy levels are higher or lower than normal I will write it in my food/training diary and learn what works best for me.

I wouldn't recommend doing any type of endurance training in the morning and fasting afterwards, I feel I need some kind of recovery meal with carbs, protein and fats. For training in the afternoons it was fine because I had eaten twice before training and then again shortly after training.

Overall my energy levels decreased by trying to eat during an 8 hour window. It was also extremely troublesome on the weekends as I'd prefer to exercise first thing in the morning and then have the rest of the day to do other things in life.

I would recommend trying it if you haven't already. Experimenting with different foods, timing of foods, etc and keeping how my body reacted to them all in a diary/journal was extemely beneficial for me.

One more thing, if you eat a high carb, low fat diet, fasting is incredibly difficult. I would recommend switching to a higher fat, low/medium carb diet beforehand as when we fast, we break down our own fats and muscles which profile resembles a more higher fat diet.

Hope that helps.

There is no magic answer. Everyones body reacts different. So experiment!


2014-10-24 2:52 PM
in reply to: tjfry

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Subject: RE: Intermittent Fasting and performance
Originally posted by tjfry

Originally posted by AdventureBear Seems like it's worthy of consideration from a health point of view. I bolded the part I found most interesting. Beneficial effects of intermittent fasting and caloric restriction on the cardiovascular and cerebrovascular systems. Mattson MP1, Wan R. Author information Abstract Intermittent fasting (IF; reduced meal frequency) and caloric restriction (CR) extend lifespan and increase resistance to age-related diseases in rodents and monkeys and improve the health of overweight humans. Both IF and CR enhance cardiovascular and brain functions and improve several risk factors for coronary artery disease and stroke including a reduction in blood pressure and increased insulin sensitivity. Cardiovascular stress adaptation is improved and heart rate variability is increased in rodents maintained on an IF or a CR diet. Moreover, rodents maintained on an IF regimen exhibit increased resistance of heart and brain cells to ischemic injury in experimental models of myocardial infarction and stroke. The beneficial effects of IF and CR result from at least two mechanisms--reduced oxidative damage and increased cellular stress resistance. Recent findings suggest that some of the beneficial effects of IF on both the cardiovascular system and the brain are mediated by brain-derived neurotrophic factor signaling in the brain. Interestingly, cellular and molecular effects of IF and CR on the cardiovascular system and the brain are similar to those of regular physical exercise, suggesting shared mechanisms. A better understanding of the cellular and molecular mechanisms by which IF and CR affect the blood vessels and heart and brain cells will likely lead to novel preventative and therapeutic strategies for extending health span.

Agree. I have 5 studies sitting on my desk regarding the effects of training in the fasted state. I haven't read em all yet, but here are a few titles if you want to look em up.

"Beneficial metabolic adaptations due to endurance exercise training in the fasted state"

"Effects of timing of pre-exercise ingestion of carbohydrate on subsequent metabolism and cycling performance"

"Exercise in the fasted state facilitates fibre type-specific intramyocelluar lipid breakdown and stimulates glycogen resynthesis in humans"

 

 

 




These studies all are looking at the effects of a exercising while in a fasted state which is not the same as a fasting type diet. The difference is that they are still ingesting the same calories, just altering whether they eat breakfast before or after their workout.
It is a great subject worth looking into, but not really the same thing.
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