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2014-10-24 3:36 PM
in reply to: #5062018

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?
Looks like he already did!


2014-10-24 4:04 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?

It's simple, the training as to mimic the demand of the sport/event. his training as to be mostly aerobic. The anaerobic components is small. it s still important but it s small.

Parachute, stack plate, paddles, big gear, hill repeats, are mostly aerobic sessions. Is bike session will also mostly be aerobic session. Yes, they might seems FAST and HARD session to you but you might also not realise how those energy system interact and what constitute a aerobic session vs a mostly anaerobic session. I highly douth your son is doing training that is completely oppose to what every great program on this planet do.


2014-10-24 9:10 PM
in reply to: gsmacleod

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by Left Brain Ok....aerobic vs. anaerobic.....I get that.  But for training purposes......how often do you go anaerobic training for a HIM, or IM, or even an Oly?  he runs a very fast sprint......his trianing goes anaerobic A LOT.
You don't go "anaerobic;" your body produces energy via the different pathways - for very short, intense efforts, the contribution is mainly via the ATP/PCr pathway which lasts for 10-15s max. That doesn't mean the other systems aren't doing anything, but this is the primary system. Then, for efforts that are still hard but last a bit longer, the glycolytic system takes over (up to about two minutes). This system produces lactate and is sometime called the anaerobic alactic system. While this system will provide the energy for these efforts, it is also the primary system that supports the aerobic system when it cannot keep up with the energy demand and this is why it can be useful to monitor blood lactate as it provides a window into how hard an athlete is working. For all efforts lasting longer than two minutes, the aerobic system is the primary system but it will be supported by anaerobic energy creation (primarily glycolyytic). So for racing, all triathlons, every track event past the 800m, cycling distances over about 2km and swimming past 200m are all primarily aerobic. That doesn't mean in training that we should never stress these systems because the other systems are important to supplement the aerobic system. However, everything up to and including VO2max work will be primarily fueled via aerobic energy pathways just with more reliance on the anaerobic system as effort goes up. When it comes to training for an event, you look at the energy systems and determine which are most important to the event and train those. Also, the training as a race approaches will demand more specific fitness which is why in January all middle distance runners on a track team will be doing the same (or very similar workouts) but as race season approaches, workouts will vary with target distances. Finally, while you won't spend much time above threshold in an oly, HIM or IM (and a sprint likely right around threshold), training at or above threshold is important as key predictor of endurance performance is power/pace at threshold. Shane

THANKS!! 

That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. 

I appreciate the time you took to write that. 

2014-10-24 9:39 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by Left Brain Ok....aerobic vs. anaerobic.....I get that.  But for training purposes......how often do you go anaerobic training for a HIM, or IM, or even an Oly?  he runs a very fast sprint......his trianing goes anaerobic A LOT.
You don't go "anaerobic;" your body produces energy via the different pathways - for very short, intense efforts, the contribution is mainly via the ATP/PCr pathway which lasts for 10-15s max. That doesn't mean the other systems aren't doing anything, but this is the primary system. Then, for efforts that are still hard but last a bit longer, the glycolytic system takes over (up to about two minutes). This system produces lactate and is sometime called the anaerobic alactic system. While this system will provide the energy for these efforts, it is also the primary system that supports the aerobic system when it cannot keep up with the energy demand and this is why it can be useful to monitor blood lactate as it provides a window into how hard an athlete is working. For all efforts lasting longer than two minutes, the aerobic system is the primary system but it will be supported by anaerobic energy creation (primarily glycolyytic). So for racing, all triathlons, every track event past the 800m, cycling distances over about 2km and swimming past 200m are all primarily aerobic. That doesn't mean in training that we should never stress these systems because the other systems are important to supplement the aerobic system. However, everything up to and including VO2max work will be primarily fueled via aerobic energy pathways just with more reliance on the anaerobic system as effort goes up. When it comes to training for an event, you look at the energy systems and determine which are most important to the event and train those. Also, the training as a race approaches will demand more specific fitness which is why in January all middle distance runners on a track team will be doing the same (or very similar workouts) but as race season approaches, workouts will vary with target distances. Finally, while you won't spend much time above threshold in an oly, HIM or IM (and a sprint likely right around threshold), training at or above threshold is important as key predictor of endurance performance is power/pace at threshold. Shane

THANKS!! 

That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. 

I appreciate the time you took to write that. 

Yes, very nice!

2014-10-25 5:03 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?
No problem - I missed that I incorrectly called the glycolytic the anaerobic alactic when I should have said anaerobic lactic system.

Shane
2014-10-25 5:24 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?
thanks Shane

thanks Jenny, that article was also referred to in a our national newspaper
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/fitness/how-...

The article's conclusion : "Of course, strength training alone won’t make you a great runner or cyclist. But accelerated muscle loss due to the hormonal changes associated with aging mean that it takes on greater importance as you get older."

I'd love to hear on if you share Dave Scott's opinions on strength training, especially for older athletes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SGOt664clw

Edited by marcag 2014-10-25 5:51 AM


2014-10-26 6:37 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?
Absolutely... I think "strength training" that focuses on improving joint stability can be hugely beneficial. The joints are where things tend to break down and where injuries can occur. And as I said earlier in this thread - if you're injured - you can't train, or at least you can train in the same way you would if you were 100% healthy...

2014-10-27 6:09 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by gsmacleod
Originally posted by Left Brain Ok....aerobic vs. anaerobic.....I get that.  But for training purposes......how often do you go anaerobic training for a HIM, or IM, or even an Oly?  he runs a very fast sprint......his trianing goes anaerobic A LOT.
You don't go "anaerobic;" your body produces energy via the different pathways - for very short, intense efforts, the contribution is mainly via the ATP/PCr pathway which lasts for 10-15s max. That doesn't mean the other systems aren't doing anything, but this is the primary system. Then, for efforts that are still hard but last a bit longer, the glycolytic system takes over (up to about two minutes). This system produces lactate and is sometime called the anaerobic alactic system. While this system will provide the energy for these efforts, it is also the primary system that supports the aerobic system when it cannot keep up with the energy demand and this is why it can be useful to monitor blood lactate as it provides a window into how hard an athlete is working. For all efforts lasting longer than two minutes, the aerobic system is the primary system but it will be supported by anaerobic energy creation (primarily glycolyytic). So for racing, all triathlons, every track event past the 800m, cycling distances over about 2km and swimming past 200m are all primarily aerobic. That doesn't mean in training that we should never stress these systems because the other systems are important to supplement the aerobic system. However, everything up to and including VO2max work will be primarily fueled via aerobic energy pathways just with more reliance on the anaerobic system as effort goes up. When it comes to training for an event, you look at the energy systems and determine which are most important to the event and train those. Also, the training as a race approaches will demand more specific fitness which is why in January all middle distance runners on a track team will be doing the same (or very similar workouts) but as race season approaches, workouts will vary with target distances. Finally, while you won't spend much time above threshold in an oly, HIM or IM (and a sprint likely right around threshold), training at or above threshold is important as key predictor of endurance performance is power/pace at threshold. Shane

THANKS!! 

That's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. 

I appreciate the time you took to write that. 




Ditto, perhaps the best thing I've read since joining this forum (and quite accurate)
2014-10-28 11:06 AM
in reply to: FrankMilena

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Subject: RE: More Weight Training = Better Results?

I'm late to the party but wanted to add my 2 cents. I'm going to sort of ride the fence and say that weights can be great....but also agree that there is no substitute for sport specific volume.

Weights- it all depends on how the weights are performed. I mostly agree with the energy pathways as Shane described them but it didn't really speak to weight lifting itself. 2 things can happen when you lift weights. 1 the strength of the signal(neural) in the firing muscle becomes more defined/clear/strong which increases the tensile strength of the muscle (like the smaller guys that are so strong but not big). 2. the muscle, through the stress of lifting will break and tear only to grow back bigger and stronger (hypertrophy). When a muscle works, it's given a charge, and the strength of that charge determines how many muscles are used. A small charge to walk up stairs will only trigger a few muscles, while a bigger charge will trigger all the muscles, like when you max out on squats. Small charges trigger the slow twitch muscles and and the charges grow, more and more fast twitch muscles are recruited to the task. So as an endurance athlete, you want apply enough force to stress the muscle to increase it's firing ability, but not so much that you end up recruiting all kinds of fast twitch fibers that would cause a lot of added muscle (which is going to be mostly fast twitch fiber). That's why the high rep, controlled weight exercises are prescribed. The charge isn't big enough to recruit all the fibers and the controlled motion (as opposed to explosive motion) helps to do the same as well as mimicking the exact motions used during sbr.

Now where the walking up stairs example falls short is that you don't know how many muscles are being recruited to perform that action. So a person could benefit greatly from weight lifting even if they can walk up stairs, in an attempt to reduce the number of muscles required to walk up the steps. Same with sbr..

On top of that, if you lift to strengthen the supporting muscles who don't get much work anyway, then they are able to support better and let the performance muscles perform and not be reduced to performing AND supporting when those supporting muscles begin to fail.

Having said all that, I still prefer a run/ride over weights with all things being equal.

 

 

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