General Discussion Triathlon Talk » "BEST" swim workout for winter training?... Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2014-10-28 1:11 PM

User image

Expert
1091
1000252525
St. Paul, MN
Subject: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
I asked a similar question a few years ago, but I thought I'd come back to poll the masses again...

I don't swim much (1 or MAYBE 2 times per week), so what's a good workout to keep up my swim fitness throughout the winter? (To maintain Sprint swim speed and POSSIBLY Oly endurance.) 1500 tempo? 100 repeats? An occasional long swim of 2K+?

Thoughts? Thanks!


2014-10-28 1:51 PM
in reply to: stevestenzel

User image

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...

1-2 swims per week won't really maintain much of anything unless you were a swimmer as a kid.  I would do sets of 50s and 100s, sometimes the odd 5 x 200 set.  

2014-10-28 2:06 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Champion
7036
5000200025
Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...

I like to mix things up and not do the same workout all the time. 

That being said, my "default" swim workout is just doing 100 repeats, particularly if I'm time crunched.

I also like to do different combinations of ladders.  

For Oly distance training, I like to do descending sets of 400's. 

I seldom do long continuous swims. 

I'd suggest you try to swim 2-3 times per week if possible.  I was always told that to improve you need to swim at least 3x week; that you can only maintain swimming 2x week, and you lose ground swimming only 1x week.

Mark

 

 



Edited by RedCorvette 2014-10-28 2:11 PM
2014-10-28 2:36 PM
in reply to: stevestenzel

User image

Expert
1091
1000252525
St. Paul, MN
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Axteraa: oooh, the dreaded 200s. I forgot about those. That's a good one.

RedCorvette: Oh God... ladders. Those always get me. Meaning I need to do more.

And I know I SHOULD be swimming more, but I don't have time to get to a pool for a good swim. All year, I've only had 3 weeks with MORE than 2 swims, so if I maintain 2 swims all winter, that'd be stellar. Thanks for the ideas so far!!
2014-10-28 3:58 PM
in reply to: stevestenzel

User image

Pro
6520
50001000500
Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...

I have a really hard time getting to the pool as much as I'd like too.  Goal is three for the week, I settle for two, and I'm a little disappointed if I only make it once.

I also like to do different sets.  When I am at the pool I usually don't have much time so my goal is about 2,000 yards which I usually get pretty close to.

I tend to gravitate more to longer intervals like 200's and 300's.  I'll throw in 100's as much as I can but I find with the limited amount of swimming I do I push the 100's too hard and end up with sore shoulders, hips, and lower back.  If I back off the 100's too much I'm at my 200-300 pace and then it just takes longer to get my yardage in.  Swimming is not my first love, nor my second.

2014-10-28 4:44 PM
in reply to: stevestenzel

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...

Originally posted by stevestenzel Axteraa: oooh, the dreaded 200s. I forgot about those. That's a good one. RedCorvette: Oh God... ladders. Those always get me. Meaning I need to do more. And I know I SHOULD be swimming more, but I don't have time to get to a pool for a good swim. All year, I've only had 3 weeks with MORE than 2 swims, so if I maintain 2 swims all winter, that'd be stellar. Thanks for the ideas so far!!

Thinking like Arend, predominantly short things, 200 or less, and also curious about how much you might be able to put in when you do swim?



2014-10-29 4:37 AM
in reply to: brigby1

User image

Extreme Veteran
3020
20001000
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
If I'm only going once or twice a week, I like to make those swim sessions hard. 20 x 100 all out. 10 x 200 all out. 10 x 50 all out with the ankle band as MS is good for core strength and form work. Ladder swim (100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 400, 300, 200, 100 MS). I have the swim speed workouts and often do those.
2014-10-29 6:08 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Master
8247
50002000100010010025
Eugene, Oregon
Bronze member
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
I do a lot of different things in off-season but of I'm short on time, I often do a continuous fartlek type swim of 1500-2000m. Something like this (after a warmup) : alternate easy/hard (or hard/easy efforts of 25, 50, 75, 100.....up to 200). That gets you 1800m. For longer, go up a bit more, or work back down to 25/25, which is 3200m total. For some reason I find these easier than stop and go repeats and my pace is usually close to my time trial pace for 1500-2000m with a lot lower perceived effort. If you're only swimming once a week, it's a good staple as it works endurance, threshold pace, and form (focus on technique during the easy part, then try to hold that on the hard part). At other times, I do things like 12-15x 100m or sets of 200-300m repeats. I like to throw in a set of IM work every once in a while (once every 4-5 100's, for example) just to work a greater variety of muscles, and help myself keep count.

Would also recommend swimming at least two, preferably three times a week. Without that, you're going to lose both swim fitness and, unless you have a really strong swim background, "feel" for the water, which contributes to stroke efficiency.

Edited by Hot Runner 2014-10-29 6:11 AM
2014-10-29 12:14 PM
in reply to: stevestenzel

User image

Veteran
2297
2000100100252525
Great White North
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Skip the continuous swims.


30x50

15x100

20x100

60x25
2014-10-29 12:21 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

User image


538
50025
Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by simpsonbo

Skip the continuous swims.


30x50

15x100

20x100

60x25


Last winter I did very similar. Was swimming only 1-2x per week. These killed. They also got me faster and more efficient. Don't think I did the 25s though, I sprinkled 200 repeats in there
2014-10-29 1:47 PM
in reply to: stevestenzel

User image

Extreme Veteran
442
10010010010025
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
2x wk is plenty to maintain fitness if you swim hard.

My favorite set:

200 w/u
6 x 400 - Each set = 1st 100 @ 85%, 2nd @ 90%, 3rd @ 95%, 4th at puke pace. No rest between 100s, 60 second rest between sets.
100 c/d

You know that you are in good shape when you can do all 6 sets at equal speed....then it's time to add a 7th set!!!

Have Fun!


2014-10-29 1:59 PM
in reply to: stevestenzel

User image

Master
3888
20001000500100100100252525
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
I swim with a masters group year round. This spring for the most part was 2 swims a week. If I swim 2x/week I can maintain my swim speed. Most masters workouts have 700-800 yds of warmup followed by a 2,000 yard main set. Main sets usually consist of 50's, 100's, 200's etc. and the occasional set that had 300's/400's in it. Ladders is where we'd see the 400's show up.

Lots of 50's, lot of 100's is probably your best bet.

Also maybe throw in some dry land stuff with stretch cords (search YouTube for Swim Speed Secrets drills), those can help with form etc.
2014-10-29 3:44 PM
in reply to: reecealan


160
1002525
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Not sure you consider yourself excellent, good or in need of improvement but do you only want to keep the fitness level?

If there is one sport where technique counts it is swimming. I would at least make sure to do some kicks and pulls to concentrate on your water awareness and body positioning. That and a few distance at slower speed but concentrating on efficiency/glide.

If you loose the technique, the fitness gains you achieve will be wasted at race time. Does not mean you can't push yourself but maybe spend a little time concentrating on technique/educational during warmup/cooldown...

Also, the distance and intensity is not the only factor for the swimming fitness. Do a few laps with exaggerated long dives and no rest or limit your breathing to one per 3, 5, 7, 9 strokes once in a while (very good in intervals). Each time you breath, you slow down a little so reducing your breath frequency while swimming helps as well.
2014-10-29 4:20 PM
in reply to: Antoine tri

User image


360
1001001002525
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Some great ideas in this thread, thanks everyone.

I'm in a similar boat in that my nearest pool is an hour's drive away, and between work and kids it's just not feasible for me to get there too often, so like OP I've got to make the most of my time in the pool. Having just gotten back into swimming after not really "swimming" for over a decade, I've been focusing mostly on technique but will want to start building more speed for next season, so I'm definitely going to try some of these sets.
2014-10-29 9:35 PM
in reply to: #5063496


41
25
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Why are continous swims non beneficial? I even see this in my training plan, lots of intervals and only the ocasional 750+ meters continous swim. By ocasional 1-3 in a 3 month period.
2014-10-30 11:00 AM
in reply to: simpsonbo

User image

Pro
6520
50001000500
Bellingham, WA
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?



2014-10-30 11:05 AM
in reply to: popsracer

User image

Expert
1091
1000252525
St. Paul, MN
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?



I was going to ask this too! How do you do these, Simpsonbo? Thanks!
2014-10-30 11:15 AM
in reply to: popsracer

User image


538
50025
Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?




Part of what I did was use Daniels' approach to rest (time on = time off) especially for the shorter intervals (under 200)
Not an exact science in the pool, but I used perceived level of effort and the ability to repeat the pace for each workset,then found a good rest time where I could duplicate my working interval pace and then periodically cutback on rest time to improve fitness. Least it's how I did it. It worked.

I am thinking about swimming with my HR strap on and standing in shallow end of pool during recovery and using rest periods based on recovery HR targets I set. Thought that'd be interesting
2014-10-30 11:15 AM
in reply to: 0

User image


538
50025
Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?




Part of what I did was use Daniels' approach to rest (time on = time off) especially for the shorter intervals (under 200)
Not an exact science in the pool, but I used perceived level of effort and the ability to repeat the pace for each workset,then found a good rest time where I could duplicate my working interval pace and then periodically cutback on rest time to improve fitness. Least it's how I did it. It worked.

I am thinking about swimming with my HR strap on and standing in shallow end of pool during recovery and using rest periods based on recovery HR targets I set. Thought that'd be interesting

NO CLUE WHY THIS DOUBLE POSTED - SORRY

Edited by TJHammer 2014-10-30 11:16 AM
2014-10-30 11:30 AM
in reply to: stevestenzel


160
1002525
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by stevestenzel

Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?



I was going to ask this too! How do you do these, Simpsonbo? Thanks!


Not a coach here but what I enjoy is do a few 100m regular speed calculating your time. Add 15 seconds. Try to do all your 15 x 100 within that time. If it takes you 1 minutes 45 for one then try to fit each of your 100m within 2m. The rest time is included in the 2 minute. The intensity you put will determine how fast you arrive and how much rest you get. This makes it perfect for all intensities. You can therefore vary the intensity as well. For instance, do a few ones with 25m sprint, 75 regular, a few 50/50, 75/25, 100, 100 extra hard, 100 extra extra...

If it is too easy then you know you have to adjust the time for the next occasion. You want the rest to be small enough to challenge yourself but sufficient to be able to achieve exercise.

If you can, I would register either in a triathlon or master club. it will not only show you multiple training method but also vary them and give you some supervision when your style needs to be corrected. As I said earlier, I would not only concentrate on intensity, distance and rest.
2014-10-30 11:39 AM
in reply to: 0

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...

Originally posted by TJHammer
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?

Part of what I did was use Daniels' approach to rest (time on = time off) especially for the shorter intervals (under 200) Not an exact science in the pool, but I used perceived level of effort and the ability to repeat the pace for each workset,then found a good rest time where I could duplicate my working interval pace and then periodically cutback on rest time to improve fitness. Least it's how I did it. It worked. I am thinking about swimming with my HR strap on and standing in shallow end of pool during recovery and using rest periods based on recovery HR targets I set. Thought that'd be interesting NO CLUE WHY THIS DOUBLE POSTED - SORRY

In general, use a threshold interval ratio more often than a VO2 interval ratio. So more like 20-25% of the working time as opposed to equal work/rest. Try to set it up so that you are leaving consistently for each interval. It might end up being a little tighter than 20-25%.



Edited by brigby1 2014-10-30 11:41 AM


2014-10-30 12:51 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Extreme Veteran
5722
5000500100100
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by TJHammer
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?

Part of what I did was use Daniels' approach to rest (time on = time off) especially for the shorter intervals (under 200) Not an exact science in the pool, but I used perceived level of effort and the ability to repeat the pace for each workset,then found a good rest time where I could duplicate my working interval pace and then periodically cutback on rest time to improve fitness. Least it's how I did it. It worked. I am thinking about swimming with my HR strap on and standing in shallow end of pool during recovery and using rest periods based on recovery HR targets I set. Thought that'd be interesting NO CLUE WHY THIS DOUBLE POSTED - SORRY

In general, use a threshold interval ratio more often than a VO2 interval ratio. So more like 20-25% of the working time as opposed to equal work/rest. Try to set it up so that you are leaving consistently for each interval. It might end up being a little tighter than 20-25%.




I'm in line with Ben's suggestion

If we discuss the 15x100 set, typically they should be done around threshold. Different plans use different methods to establish threshold. One popular way is to do a 400m all out, a 200m all out and calculate what is called a CSS. Other coaches will make you use your 1500m TT time. I have seen other do 3x300m with 30sec rest and the average of the swim time. They all probably come within a few seconds of each other. Call this your T pace

I personally take around 15s rest. So if my T pace is 1:35/100m, I will leave on every 1:50

The trick is to be as consistent as possible. You don't want to be starting at 1:30/100 and ending at 1:40.
If you are not able to hold that 1:35 or close, you are probably going too fast.

The solution is NOT to take more rest. If you are going too fast and resting too much you are defeating the purpose of the set.

The idea is to spend as much time as possible close to that threshold pace, not going much above it while swimming and not letting your HR drop too much while resting.

Also, you should be holding your form for the entire set. If you are thrashing to hit the last few you are going too fast.

Try doing 6, then 8, then 10, then 15, then start dropping the send off time by 5 seconds.

When doing 200s, I take 20s rest and maybe swim at T+1s. When doing 50s, I take around 10 and maybe T-2s.

Experiment. Just try to do the sets consistently.


Edited by marcag 2014-10-30 12:52 PM
2014-10-30 5:58 PM
in reply to: brigby1

User image


538
50025
Brooklyn, New York
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by TJHammer
Originally posted by popsracer

Originally posted by simpsonbo Skip the continuous swims. 30x50 15x100 20x100 60x25

So, how much rest between each?  Is there a standard for this or is there some variation depending on fitness and/or intensity?

Part of what I did was use Daniels' approach to rest (time on = time off) especially for the shorter intervals (under 200) Not an exact science in the pool, but I used perceived level of effort and the ability to repeat the pace for each workset,then found a good rest time where I could duplicate my working interval pace and then periodically cutback on rest time to improve fitness. Least it's how I did it. It worked. I am thinking about swimming with my HR strap on and standing in shallow end of pool during recovery and using rest periods based on recovery HR targets I set. Thought that'd be interesting NO CLUE WHY THIS DOUBLE POSTED - SORRY

In general, use a threshold interval ratio more often than a VO2 interval ratio. So more like 20-25% of the working time as opposed to equal work/rest. Try to set it up so that you are leaving consistently for each interval. It might end up being a little tighter than 20-25%.




Will give it a shot come winter
2014-10-30 8:11 PM
in reply to: popsracer

User image

Veteran
2297
2000100100252525
Great White North
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
It depends but for base work my 100s are usually 1.10 on 1.25. For me thats below threshold and I can go at that pace for a while.
For base 50's 45 is my go to sendoff
If its a pull base set I prefer 200s usually holding under 2.20 on 2.30 or 2.40.

For the fast stuff I really like 75s on 1.15 holding 50 or better.
50's on 60 holding under 32
25's on 25 or 30 holding 15 or less
2014-11-03 2:14 PM
in reply to: simpsonbo

User image

Expert
1091
1000252525
St. Paul, MN
Subject: RE: "BEST" swim workout for winter training?...
Originally posted by simpsonbo

It depends but for base work my 100s are usually 1.10 on 1.25. For me thats below threshold and I can go at that pace for a while.
For base 50's 45 is my go to sendoff
If its a pull base set I prefer 200s usually holding under 2.20 on 2.30 or 2.40.

For the fast stuff I really like 75s on 1.15 holding 50 or better.
50's on 60 holding under 32
25's on 25 or 30 holding 15 or less

Thanks for the details. And GOD you're fast. When I do 100s, I can pull 1:25 for a few, and then it slows to close to 1:30 (with 20-30 secs rest).
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » "BEST" swim workout for winter training?... Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2
 
 
RELATED POSTS

Help, i need a good swim workout!

Started by ultrahip_00
Views: 857 Posts: 8

2007-07-15 5:45 PM amiine

Poll: Best swim workout binder book?

Started by stupidnickname
Views: 1554 Posts: 9

2007-02-15 1:26 PM Rowdy

Swim Training in the Winter.

Started by trifocus
Views: 1613 Posts: 16

2006-10-18 12:08 PM LabraNostra

Winter Swim Training

Started by chill
Views: 1432 Posts: 17

2004-12-06 4:44 PM chill

Base swim workouts for the winter?

Started by TH3_FRB
Views: 814 Posts: 9

2004-11-04 8:04 PM Tri Swim Coach
RELATED ARTICLES
date : November 14, 2012
author : IndoIronYanti
comments : 0
Feeling blah? Tempted to miss a workout? Here are some practices as well as on-the-spot tricks to get you into your workouts when you're just not feeling it.
 
date : December 22, 2011
author : Nancy Clark
comments : 0
Lack of food and fluids can take the fun out of your outdoor activities. These tips can help you fuel wisely for cold weather workouts.
date : December 1, 2011
author : alicefoeller
comments : 0
Triathletes weigh in on making the most of winter training
 
date : November 28, 2011
author : juliapurr
comments : 0
Bored out of your mind or watching a movie? Amp it up on the bike trainer.
date : June 18, 2008
author : Team BT
comments : 3
Easily transfer your workout data from your Garmin, Polar, Timex and more directly into your BT training log. Eliminate the manual entries. Save time!
 
date : March 7, 2007
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
Discussions on hand entry, common triathlete training mistakes, the best swim drills, useful swim tools and flip turn help.
date : January 30, 2005
author : Glenn
comments : 0
Many of us do not enjoy the ‘pleasures’ of training on a stationery trainer. “Boring”, ”mind-numbing”, “a drag” are three phrases often associated with indoor trainers.
 
date : September 10, 2004
author : steve
comments : 0
Well its the middle of winter and there is 5 inches of snow on the ground and I am too cheap to buy a gym membership and take spinning classes, so what do I do?