General Discussion Triathlon Talk » If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do? Rss Feed  
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2014-10-28 4:52 PM

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Subject: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Hey all!

I've been teaching indoor cycling for years, and am in the process of working with a local Tri shop to teach a couple classes at their location.

They have a large room connected to the shop that has been used for everything from crossfit, to cycling, to seminars. Patrons would bring their own bikes along with trainers and I would run the class.

Right now I'm working at a small studio where we utilize power meters, so I could either adapt the class with that and/or HR.

Just getting some ideas from the general Tri community. I know some people loathe indoor training, but in a group setting, some fun music and interaction, it can be a very fun and effective workout.

Thanks for sharing any thoughts/ideas!


2014-10-28 6:14 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?

A series of classes designed to be completed in sequence with progression over a period of weeks or months.  The focus of the sessions and the series would be raising threshold power.

 

2014-10-28 7:14 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?

Speaking for myself, I would probably want to focus on VO2 max type workouts.  Something like 6x4' or 5x5' where you often want to quit halfway through but the motivation of a group and an instructor can help you squeeze out a good workout.  Frankly, I would not spend the time and effort dragging my bike and a trainer away from home just to do a Z3 workout that I can probably do myself.  And while 2x20' can be a really hard workout, I'm not sure if a group/instructor environment would help that workout too much as you're pretty much riding steady and having someone yelling encouragement may not help as much as a VO2 max effort.  

But again...that's just me.

2014-10-28 7:20 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Something like what Don said. The (former) tri club in my hometown had these, and I used to do them sometimes when I was home in the winter. (One could pay on a drop-in or series basis, or get a punch card.) There were three rides per week, a tempo-type ride of about 90 minutes with longer intervals, a shorter ride with high-intensity intervals, and a longer "iron ride" when people did anything from 90 minutes to 5 hours, using one of the computratiner courses. We had to do a threshold test before starting, and brought our own bikes to hook into the computrainer. The iron ride could getba bit social sometimes, but the other rides were mainly group sufferfests.....nice to have company in misery for a change, though, and some encouragement from the coaches. Decent music would be a plus. I had different tastes than most so brought my own MP3 for the long ride. Sadly, tri shop and tri club went bust so I ended up buying a trainer to use at home during breaks.

Done a few spin classes here but they are not tri-oriented--too much standing up, cranking up resistance to ridiculous levels or spinning super-fast at very low resistance, plus lousy, too-loud music, and instructors yelling at people, usually in Vietnamese. I'm not paying to get yelled at. Can't speak for other athletes, but I'm pretty self-motivated and that gung-ho coach type stuff doesn't do much for me.
2014-10-28 8:17 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Originally posted by Jason N

Speaking for myself, I would probably want to focus on VO2 max type workouts.  Something like 6x4' or 5x5' where you often want to quit halfway through but the motivation of a group and an instructor can help you squeeze out a good workout.  Frankly, I would not spend the time and effort dragging my bike and a trainer away from home just to do a Z3 workout that I can probably do myself.  And while 2x20' can be a really hard workout, I'm not sure if a group/instructor environment would help that workout too much as you're pretty much riding steady and having someone yelling encouragement may not help as much as a VO2 max effort.  

But again...that's just me.




This and I also agree with Don with regards to trying to increase FTP over time.
2014-10-28 9:33 PM
in reply to: reecealan

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
This is all great and exactly what I was looking for!!

At the studio where I teach, we use a 8 week progressive format, specifically doing threshold work and VO2 Max efforts. People can come and go as they like, but I stick to the 8 week calendar - but most are there for the long haul (mostly triathletes and a couple mountain bikers).

I would love to do something like this once the class gets established. I was also hoping to target some newbies and get their biking fitness up where they feel confident riding outdoors with a group. It can also be used for rehabbing athletes (recovering from a running injury etc) so there are lots of ways to look at it. I love indoor cycling for the fact that you are always in charge of your resistance/gear and never have to go as hard as I instruct or have the option to work harder if that is what you need. I've always taught my classes like this and never been into the crazy contraindicated moves, crazy yelling, spinning over 120rpm and all that other crap that is out there. I keep it real and teach my class/ride my indoor bike like I ride my outdoor bike. So I think it can really work in this avenue!

keep the ideas coming - really appreciate everyone taking the time to respond!


2014-10-28 9:36 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?

Originally posted by Jason N

Speaking for myself, I would probably want to focus on VO2 max type workouts.  Something like 6x4' or 5x5' where you often want to quit halfway through but the motivation of a group and an instructor can help you squeeze out a good workout.  Frankly, I would not spend the time and effort dragging my bike and a trainer away from home just to do a Z3 workout that I can probably do myself.  And while 2x20' can be a really hard workout, I'm not sure if a group/instructor environment would help that workout too much as you're pretty much riding steady and having someone yelling encouragement may not help as much as a VO2 max effort.  

But again...that's just me.

For the longer efforts, they could move it around Z4, and even slight bits into Z5. Suggest cadence changes and such. All the bigger interval SF vids besides Rubber Glove do this. Definitely keep it up with harder efforts like this or the Z5 suggestions. Like the threshold goal, but know that does not mean having all workouts right at threshold.

2014-10-29 10:58 AM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Originally posted by runspingirl
I would love to do something like this once the class gets established. I was also hoping to target some newbies and get their biking fitness up where they feel confident riding outdoors with a group. It can also be used for rehabbing athletes (recovering from a running injury etc) so there are lots of ways to look at it.


This is exactly what I am looking for and getting from the class I take at our local try store. It is called Total Cyclist. I chose a class with another gentleman who is rehabbing from knee surgery, and as for me, I am a not-so-great cyclist, looking to get stronger. So both of the target groups you mentioned!

The last class I just finished was a series of 8 sessions with lots of good climbing included. We live in an extremely flat part of the country, and bridges are our only hills. So those workouts really help me feel tons stronger when I am riding somewhere with a bit more "profile" :-) Also, I am learning how to shift to maintain a good steady output.

I'm definitely signing up for the next series. These kind of classes are a great addition to riding outside, no slacking at the back of the line ;-)

Good luck with your new classes!

2014-10-29 12:42 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?

One that wouldn't require me to drag a trainer that I don't own across the valley Seriously. 

2014-10-29 1:30 PM
in reply to: thebigb

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Originally posted by thebigb

One that wouldn't require me to drag a trainer that I don't own across the valley Seriously. 




We may be able to offer a few trainers for people that don't own them or can't bring them. I hear you! Mine is a heavy monster but I figure I'm willing to do it if everything works out. Still in the planning phases! Good feedback though because I'm sure there are others that would attend but dont want to drag their equipment across town.
2014-10-29 2:12 PM
in reply to: runspingirl

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Originally posted by runspingirl

Originally posted by thebigb

One that wouldn't require me to drag a trainer that I don't own across the valley Seriously. 




We may be able to offer a few trainers for people that don't own them or can't bring them. I hear you! Mine is a heavy monster but I figure I'm willing to do it if everything works out. Still in the planning phases! Good feedback though because I'm sure there are others that would attend but dont want to drag their equipment across town.


there is a group opening a few centres. They use custom, adjustable bikes that are fitted with computrainers

You just need to know your seat height, reach and a few parameters and you can adjust within seconds

All workouts are a % of FTP. Everything is on a big screen with everyone's numbers up there. But rather than showing me at 200watts and you at 300, it shows me at 98% and you at 96%.

There are other multi-rider setups that can do the same.





2014-10-29 2:26 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by runspingirl
Originally posted by thebigb

One that wouldn't require me to drag a trainer that I don't own across the valley Seriously. 

We may be able to offer a few trainers for people that don't own them or can't bring them. I hear you! Mine is a heavy monster but I figure I'm willing to do it if everything works out. Still in the planning phases! Good feedback though because I'm sure there are others that would attend but dont want to drag their equipment across town.
there is a group opening a few centres. They use custom, adjustable bikes that are fitted with computrainers You just need to know your seat height, reach and a few parameters and you can adjust within seconds All workouts are a % of FTP. Everything is on a big screen with everyone's numbers up there. But rather than showing me at 200watts and you at 300, it shows me at 98% and you at 96%. There are other multi-rider setups that can do the same.

 

I'd jump into that in a heartbeat (well, maybe when I'm not running 100+ miles a week) if it was available. What's cost on something like that to jump in? Usually that's the second most prohibitive part. 

2014-10-29 2:49 PM
in reply to: thebigb

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Originally posted by thebigb

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by runspingirl
Originally posted by thebigb

One that wouldn't require me to drag a trainer that I don't own across the valley Seriously. 

We may be able to offer a few trainers for people that don't own them or can't bring them. I hear you! Mine is a heavy monster but I figure I'm willing to do it if everything works out. Still in the planning phases! Good feedback though because I'm sure there are others that would attend but dont want to drag their equipment across town.
there is a group opening a few centres. They use custom, adjustable bikes that are fitted with computrainers You just need to know your seat height, reach and a few parameters and you can adjust within seconds All workouts are a % of FTP. Everything is on a big screen with everyone's numbers up there. But rather than showing me at 200watts and you at 300, it shows me at 98% and you at 96%. There are other multi-rider setups that can do the same.

 

I'd jump into that in a heartbeat (well, maybe when I'm not running 100+ miles a week) if it was available. What's cost on something like that to jump in? Usually that's the second most prohibitive part. 




Not sure how much it costs but I know a few people that use it and I don't think it's too crazy.

This shows the setup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1-j-Qvhpwk#t=15
2014-10-29 2:55 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?

Isn't there software yet that can do this online from home.  Basically set up a time to log in and virtually race against others?  I suppose this is assuming you have a power meter or virtual power though.

2014-10-29 3:39 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Originally posted by Jason N

Isn't there software yet that can do this online from home.  Basically set up a time to log in and virtually race against others?  I suppose this is assuming you have a power meter or virtual power though.




There is software to ride/race but I have not yet seen a workout with FTP intervals. Technically possible, I just haven't seen one.

These studio programs work for different reasons. When well done, it's a program over several weeks that are targeting specific improvements. Second, when people have to do them on their own in their basement they don't do it. When they pay in advance and are scheduled to show up they usually do. I used to swim at a place that did them and the guys would show up depressed at 6AM and leave energized at 7. 3x per week.
Most people don't have the equipment. But mostly they don't have the knowledge to put together a plan over multiple workouts.

If I didn't have a computrainer with a plan, I would probably do them.
2014-10-29 10:51 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
I have a simple concept, a huge sound system, a 10 feet by 5 feet giant screen and we ride some hard part of the tour de france. When the rider attack, we attack, we they push the pace we do, etc...

I edit the workout and people learn to break the dependency on HR and power and learn to use RPE, be motivated and intune with themselves. At the end of a season of spinning...they get VERY FIT.....

i want it to be fun...i want people to dream, i want them to feel like they are actually riding with the best guy in the world and integral part of the race


2014-10-30 3:31 AM
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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Will you have any "technology" to work with? If you have a computer and/or screen large enough for your group to see, you could use PerfPro Studio to create some targeted workouts (progressive training like Don suggested). If your athletes are using their own bikes, they would need either an ANT+ power meter or ANT+ speed/cadence sensor to connect with the program. We ran a similar program in our studio last year - 2 sessions per week, one was more threshold focused, the other more VO2 Max focused, and our participants saw huge gains in fitness. PM me if you want more info...

We're about to launch year 2 of the program. Can't wait!!


Edited by jsnowash 2014-10-30 3:35 AM
2014-10-30 11:41 AM
in reply to: jsnowash

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
interesting program and i will look more into it.

I do have a wide range of ability in my squad from pro ironman and 70.3 winners to beginners. I find it interesting to have them forget about all data for awhile and just ride and response to what happen on the screen. I prefer for riders to not be avble to compare data....so beginners don't get intimidated and for the pro...i want consistency in training at this time of the year....a very unspecific time. i m the humain coach/powermeter that decide how much i push them each sessions.

I of course edit the video to make the session i want. But rider have to learn to ride by RPE...not be a slave or hr and watts and be intune with themselves. I found those to be very effective for this purpose.

not saying data session don't have there place....but in group of 20-25, that s not my goal.

2014-10-30 12:13 PM
in reply to: jonnyo

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
Originally posted by jonnyo

interesting program and i will look more into it.

I do have a wide range of ability in my squad from pro ironman and 70.3 winners to beginners. I find it interesting to have them forget about all data for awhile and just ride and response to what happen on the screen. I prefer for riders to not be avble to compare data....so beginners don't get intimidated and for the pro...i want consistency in training at this time of the year....a very unspecific time. i m the humain coach/powermeter that decide how much i push them each sessions.

I of course edit the video to make the session i want. But rider have to learn to ride by RPE...not be a slave or hr and watts and be intune with themselves. I found those to be very effective for this purpose.

not saying data session don't have there place....but in group of 20-25, that s not my goal.


I was responding more to the OP but I will say that I have a wide variety of abilities in my classes too - and there's really no intimidation. Individual power targets are set based on an initial FTP test, and everyone is working at a level of effort appropriate for their own level of fitness. The FTP of each rider IS visible on the screen, but it's pretty tiny... For the most part everyone is doing their own thing and not thinking that much about what other riders are doing.
2014-10-30 12:26 PM
in reply to: jonnyo

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Subject: RE: If you had access to an indoor cycling class - what types of workouts would you want to do?
These perspectives are awesome!

We won't have any technology available - I wish. Some of the resources sound amazing!

In my classes - we have Joule power meters and I structure my workouts based on FTP. But at other studios/gyms, that equipment isn't available and while I stress that even a HR monitor is a great additional training tool, some people won't wear them. So I teach by RPE and effort. Those that know their zones can apply them, those that don't or dont' have any feedback tools can go by how they feel. Esp with beginners I don't want to bog them down with too much information, just let them ride how they feel. I'm pretty good at working with everyone from IM triathletes, to cyclocross, mountain biking and general fitness.

While it's nice to have technology, I also believe that you have to be in tune with your body and know what every effort level feels like. So when your GPS conks out or your Powermeter stops working mid race, you are still ok.

I'll check out some of the suggestions. Will be something that when I figure out exactly what I will want in the training space, working with the shop to see what is available and what we can get!

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