General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How do I know where they are??? Rss Feed  
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2014-10-28 9:27 PM


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Subject: How do I know where they are???
I've competed in a few triathlons and one thing is constant. I don't know where my age group competitors are? If I knew where Bob was, say 30 seconds in front of me, I could measure my attack. An example. Guy earlier this season ran by me. I found out at the finish he was the 3rd place podium! I know this is a double edge sword. Bob, 30 seconds ahead would know I'm close and measure his effort. But hey! Its a race then isn't it? A race inside the race kind of. Professional bike racers know where their competitors are so they can strategize for the win. So how do you Savy age groupers pounce at just the right time?
Thanks


2014-10-28 9:40 PM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???

Professional bike racers (as well as professional triathletes) have spotters with stop watches and motorcycles that relay the time differences to the athletes in contention.  So that's basically what you need.

Since you're not going to get that, the best thing you can do is study the start list and bib numbers.  Do your homework and figure out who's fast, find those people before the race and see what they are wearing/riding, and hopefully you recognize them on the course.

Other than that...just race your race.  Because triathlon is not draft legal (except for the swim), the fastest way to the finish line is usually just to stay within yourself.  If you get to the really pointy end of competition...where everyone swims fast, bikes fast, and runs fast...then a bit more strategy comes into play.  But generally for AG racing, everyone has a specialty and a weakness...so you just run your race.

2014-10-28 9:51 PM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???

Specific age groups can be harder if you don't know who all is in the race. Could check start lists and/or just see who shows up. As you get faster and race more you'll learn who is faster and know who to watch for. Many races mark age, but can't always see this. Overall might be a little less difficult. You can pick up placing at out and backs or seeing bikes in transition. Not as sure on looped or point to point. Some may be lucky enough to have a friend or family spotting. When in doubt, if it matters that much go for it.

2014-10-28 9:54 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
A lot of our tris have ages printed on the arm or leg. Or if there are no ages printed, I look at their faces. One trail race, I would let any men or any younger women pass me. But if I thought they were in my AG, I would pass them again. It doesn't help tho with anyone that is way in front or just slightly behind.
2014-10-29 12:59 AM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
I had no problem identifying all the people in my age group as they blew by me on the run in my last tri, thanks to the age marking on their calf. Erased all the smugness I had when I passed them on the bike.

The last one was close enough to the finish that I thought I could put forth the effort to keep up with him, and maybe kick past him at the end. I was wrong. So very, very wrong.
2014-10-29 6:18 AM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
LOL I just assume all my competitors have passed me on the bike leg and are somewhere out there ahead of me on the run, and that's usually a valid assumption. (I don't think anyone I was racing for AG podium has ever passed me on the run leg of a tri; I've just failed to catch up to them). I generally can't see well enough or have the presence of mind to figure out age (or even, sometimes, gender--there are a lot of small to medium sized, skinny short-haired athletes of both genders in SE Asia), so ANYONE ahead of me on the run is fair game until we cross the finish line. i don't just run, I stalk!


2014-10-29 6:38 AM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
Race fast enough so that they are all behind you, then you know!
2014-10-29 6:58 AM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
Based on my abilities It usually (always) works the same. As soon as the run starts I count how many in my AG pass me. There's one, two, three...... No placing today. Sometimes I even get it over with on the bike! The only suggestion I have for you is looking at the times from previous years races. Then you have a general idea of where you need to be to place in your AG. It's not perfect since the swim could be a little off plus weather conditions and dependent on who shows up that day.
2014-10-29 7:11 AM
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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???

How does knowing where your competitors are really help you execute the race strategy that gets you to the finish line in the shortest time?  

If you don't have gas in the tank, does it matter that you know the person ahead of you is getting hardware?  

If you have the gas left in the tank, wouldn't you run down ANYONE just ahead of you near the finish line?  
If you have gas left in the tank and NOBODY is close enough to run down, do you still burn it up?  

Edited:  I'm generally not that competitive.  I did B2B and ran the last 3 miles with another guy who was struggling late in the run.  As we got close, we found out we were in the same AG.  He deferred since I'd helped drag him along to that point and he let me finish 3 seconds and 1 place ahead of him.  In my first OLY, I could hear the footsteps behind me and held the guy off.  Found out after the finish he was in my AG.  



Edited by McFuzz 2014-10-29 7:13 AM
2014-10-29 9:43 AM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???

I just try to concentrate on my own race and hitting my target paces.  Post my best time and see where the chips may fall.

One of the things you can't control is who else shows up.  My best times have been at races where I barely made the top ten in my AG.

My best AG placing has been a 2nd. Didn't know until afterwards that I had a minute lead going into the run.  Don't remember the other guy passing me, but I was going as hard as I could and don't know if I could have done anything about it if I had.

Mark

 

2014-10-29 4:29 PM
in reply to: respro


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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
It's pretty hard to tell until you're racing at the pointy end of the race, and at that point, you're not caring as much about the age groups anymore but more about the top 20, top 10, etc. There can certainly be some strategy in play at that point. Knowing your competition, your own strengths and weaknesses, when to conserve and when to burn a match is important.

Smaller races tend be the easiest to figure out where you stand since you'll most likely start in the first wave with everyone in your age group. There will be other ages in there too, but you can usually gauge how old someone is within 5 years. Races that put ages on calves are nice. Out and back courses where you can see the folks in front of you are helpful too. Spotters help too, especially if each age group has a different color cap. If my wife comes to the race, she'll pay attention to who comes out on the swim before me and tells me how many are up the road and how far back I am time wise.



2014-10-29 4:40 PM
in reply to: respro

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Coach
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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
Originally posted by respro

I've competed in a few triathlons and one thing is constant. I don't know where my age group competitors are? If I knew where Bob was, say 30 seconds in front of me, I could measure my attack. An example. Guy earlier this season ran by me. I found out at the finish he was the 3rd place podium! I know this is a double edge sword. Bob, 30 seconds ahead would know I'm close and measure his effort. But hey! Its a race then isn't it? A race inside the race kind of. Professional bike racers know where their competitors are so they can strategize for the win. So how do you Savy age groupers pounce at just the right time?
Thanks


it's a time trial for each person from start to finish...there isn't really any room in a race execution plan for "pouncing" unless you are really within striking distance of someone and feel you havn't given it yoru best.

So work on discovering wehre your weaknesses are in your fitness and race execution so that yo uforce the other guy to pouce when he's not run a well executed race!
2014-10-29 8:55 PM
in reply to: AdventureBear

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???

Originally posted by AdventureBear
Originally posted by respro I've competed in a few triathlons and one thing is constant. I don't know where my age group competitors are? If I knew where Bob was, say 30 seconds in front of me, I could measure my attack. An example. Guy earlier this season ran by me. I found out at the finish he was the 3rd place podium! I know this is a double edge sword. Bob, 30 seconds ahead would know I'm close and measure his effort. But hey! Its a race then isn't it? A race inside the race kind of. Professional bike racers know where their competitors are so they can strategize for the win. So how do you Savy age groupers pounce at just the right time? Thanks
it's a time trial for each person from start to finish...there isn't really any room in a race execution plan for "pouncing" unless you are really within striking distance of someone and feel you havn't given it yoru best. So work on discovering wehre your weaknesses are in your fitness and race execution so that yo uforce the other guy to pouce when he's not run a well executed race!

I see it more as finding the motivation for my best. I still tend to assume everyone is competition and want to run them down.

2014-10-29 9:57 PM
in reply to: respro

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???

racing at the pointy end has taught me a few tricks the past two years.  first, know your competition: if they are stronger swimmers then watch to catch them on the bike or run, if you don't then they are in front of you. if they are fast runners then kill the bike and get a good lead and run as hard as you can to keep out front.  I don't know about faster cyclist... don't have that problem much.  in races that are swim waves it is easiest.  you can look for bikes in T1 and T2 since usually you are racked together.  just count.  if you come out of the water and its a full rack you are doing good.  if you come into T2 and it's empty even better, but there may be a few bikes and from their you count your kills on the run course. 

ultimately you play on your strengths.  i know a pro triathlete who is a super strong swimmer and lays down a good swim split to try and stay out front as long as possible for a good placement.  personally i'm a strong cyclist, i do what i do in the swim to lay down a solid but not too hard bike, and then try to stay out front on the run; when you are in first there is a lot of adrenaline/motivation to push harder to stay there.  runners i know bide their time and just count the kills on the run course. 

2014-10-30 7:30 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
Being a runner/swimmer really sucks. Come out toward the front, get caught by all and sundry on the bike, desperate game of catch-up on the run. I've met very few other triathletes with this particular profile.Pretty much everyone who's strong in two sports is a biker/runner or swimmer/biker. The best I can say is that one is always motivated--in a positive sense on the swim (get out in front of my AG competition, get mixed in with a bunch of big guys, get away quick in T1, and maybe they won't know I'm there.)and run (get'em, get'em) and in a negative one on the bike (OMG the ENTIRE FIELD is passing me). I don't thnk I've ever bided my time in any event. I've always biked harder than I thought I could at every distance, including my HIM, because I got humiliated at being passed by so many people!



Edited by Hot Runner 2014-10-30 7:34 AM
2014-10-30 8:41 AM
in reply to: respro

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Carmel, Indiana
Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
If they are old fat men I know they are in my group, Clydesdale Masters.


2014-10-30 9:27 AM
in reply to: EKinIndy


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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
Originally posted by EKinIndy

If they are old fat men I know they are in my group, Clydesdale Masters.


LOL, both your profile image and remark remind me. On a slightly unrelated note, I was both the very last competitor and winner of my age group on my first open water competition!
2014-10-30 11:14 AM
in reply to: Antoine tri

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???

It's a little easier for me than most in that most of the guys in my age group have grey hair.  In the smaller local races, I see the same guys so know who they are.  I few races rack bikes by age group giving another opportunity to see who's who.

I don't worry too much about it though as I am pushing as hard as I can in a race regardless of who is around me.  I guess if I was in the last mile and I knew I was racing for AG position I might engage in a battle but that doesn't happen very often for me. 

2014-10-30 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
All of my triathlons so far have been pool swims with time-trial starts, so this hasn't really been an issue. But even in my running races, I don't usually figure these things out unless I specifically know some of the women. Have you ever tried to guess a woman's age? In small local 5Ks I often get passed by speedy older women, but I'm passing some of the younger ones-- the age group rankings are usually a bit of a mystery and surprise for me. That's fine, since in any race-- triathlon or road race-- I'm mostly racing against myself for my best time possible. I'm not looking around trying to specifically pick off women in my age group, but I will try to pass as many people as I can.

If I ever get to the point where I'm doing long distance triathlons and competitive enough to try for something where age-group ranking really matters, I suspect I will still be looking at past results and trying to figure what time I might need to place.

Edited by jennifer_runs 2014-10-30 12:53 PM
2014-10-30 3:38 PM
in reply to: jennifer_runs

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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
I had a recent experience where seeing the age on this dude's calf just about put me on the podium. Second loop on the 5k sprint course, and this dude comes cruising by me, looking all "in the zone." Clearly, I had him beat on the swim, t1, and bike portions. I told myself that unless I barfed up both lungs, I was going to hang with him. I did, and then emptied my tank passing him and sprinting the last couple hundred yards. His pace was within my range, but I needed that kick in the pants to max out. I'm glad I did it (ended up 4th in my AG), and it gave me the confidence that I can push harded in my future races. Just saying. BTW, I will never forget the name of the dude the placed 3rd. If we race together ever again, I will be his shadow.
2014-10-30 6:09 PM
in reply to: respro


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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
OP here. My initial thought was something like Google glass. As you run over the split timers your place in your age group and overall as well as time gaps would display. I know electronics are a no go for now.
So, are my age group competitors bikes racked with mine?
If so I'll know in T1 And T2 where I stand. Aside from recognizing my competition, I'll have to spot body marking. There were 300+ in my last age group. So recognizing most of them will be impossible.
One problem I've seen with body markings is with compression wear. I've not been able to see markings on some athletes because of it.
Thanks for all the info everyone!


2014-10-30 7:29 PM
in reply to: respro


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Subject: RE: How do I know where they are???
OP here. My initial thought was something like Google glass. As you run over the split timers your place in your age group and overall as well as time gaps would display. I know electronics are a no go for now.
So, are my age group competitors bikes racked with mine?
If so I'll know in T1 And T2 where I stand. Aside from recognizing my competition, I'll have to spot body marking. There were 300+ in my last age group. So recognizing most of them will be impossible.
One problem I've seen with body markings is with compression wear. I've not been able to see markings on some athletes because of it.
Thanks for all the info everyone!
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