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2014-11-13 6:22 AM

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Subject: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete
Just curious if anyone has a used a HIM plan other than the BT beginner or intermediate ones that they would recommend for someone with my background. i have a hard time with most "canned" plans, probably due to my background and very tight constraints on when I can do various workouts (due to weather, traffic, work hours, pool access). I have years and years of run experience and I feel like both the BT plans are too light on running. I don't feel good going into a HIM running 2-3 times a week, which is what I see on many weeks in the plans. Would prefer 4-5 runs (maybe 5 earlier on and 4 later),, 3-4 rides, 2-3 swims. I'm a strong swimmer. Biking is my weak link-- Good endurance, but slow. 30 kph is probably not realistic for me for that distance. A lot of my riding has to be done on the trainer. I've done one HIM in 5:53, but that included an extra 3 km of biking and some stops for minor mechanical issues on the bike, probably around 5:45 without those. Hoping to better that time, maybe 5:40-ish. Race will be hot so getting below that may be difficult. I generally am able to consistently train 12-14 hours per week with occasional recovery weeks.

I could take the intermediate HIM plan and modify it, but it would require so much tinkering with adding runs, moving workouts around, etc. that it would almost involve a total rewrite. Just wondering if there is anything already out there more along the lines of what I mentioned above. Paying for coaching isn't financially in the cards right now. Does anyone have a plan that they would recommend for someone at my level?


2014-11-13 7:34 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete

Are you the kind of person who needs a very specific plan to follow, or could it be more flexible?  I don't use a canned plan, nor do I have a coach.  I kind of make my plan up as I go and it's worked pretty well for me for the most part.  This is my "plan":

Swim 3x a week (I swim with a master's group, so I just do what the coaches say) -- this is MWF mornings

Bike 3x a week -- TTh mornings are 60 - 75 minute trainer rides that either focus on threshold intervals or VO2 intervals, long ride on the weekend (often a group ride where we try to crush each other early in the training cycle, getting to be more specific [i.e. working on holding race power for three hours] closer to the race)

Run 5-6 times a week -- running is my weakness, so I'm doing a run focus now which has me doing one tempo run, one threshold run, one long run (with a tempo interval in the middle toward the end of the training cycle), and the rest easy mileage -- once back into tri season, I'll have to see if I can maintain these key runs without interfering with my bike/swim training

For the most part, I don't do the three week build, one week recovery....I do what my body allows me to do.  Typically I can build for a while, and then I'll pull back a bit when my body tells me I need to.  I raced three hard HIM's this year (hard in that the terrain was difficult -- very hilly / mountainous) and had respectable times.  I'm racing a flat HIM next year and hoping to go sub-5:10 on this "plan".

2014-11-13 11:10 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete

Swim 3x/wk.  Since you say it is a strength, you could cut that back to 2x early on and up it later just to make sure you are ready to have a good swim and get out of the water fresh for your race. 2-3 hr/wk

Bike 3-4x/wk.  2 of those should be relatively hard efforts.  Don't need to be much more than an hour total time on the bike, with the 'work' in the 20-45min range, depending upon just how hard you do it (eg, if you do 5min intervals really hard, 4x may be plenty; if you do 10min intervals, then you probably want to do 3 or 4 of them).  When you can get outside, ride 2-3hrs, lots of time spent at/above what you estimate your HIM effort level to be.  If you are really limited outside, you may want to do a couple 2hr trainer rides along the way.  But you can also do maybe 60-90' trainer sessions where you go somewhere between HIM effort and your hard intervals and do things like 3 x 20' or 2 x 30'.  With biking as your weakness, err on getting on the bike too often (even if it causes you to miss some runs).  The closer you get to the race, the more you want to dial back some on the intensity and get more 'race pace' (or slightly harder) work.  And, ideally, some more longer rides outside. 3-7+ hr/wk

Run 4-5x/wk.  You can do several of them very short.  Even brick them off the trainer for 20-30min if that helps get them in. 2-4 hr/wk

Potential 'typical' week:

M - 60' swim, 30' run
T - 60' bike intervals, 30' run
W - 60' swim, 60' run
Th - 90' run
F - 60' swim
Sa - 180' bike, 30' run
Su - 90-120' bike

That's 3hr swim, 6-7 bike, 3 run.  That assumes you can ride outdoors on the weekend.  Cut the time & up the effort if you are 'trapped' on the trainer.  You can juggle the short runs, drop a swim for a rest day, etc.  Other things to tinker with are spacing of the bike intervals and long run, depending how those affect you.

 

2014-11-13 11:49 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete
I used this plan - http://www.trinewbies.com/tno_trainingprograms/tno_HIM.asplast year

but adapted the running to cover more days - I took the time used (since it was a time based plan) and then converted to a 5 day a week running and tweaked the lengths a bit and it worked for me
2014-11-13 12:27 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete

I have years and years of run experience and I feel like both the BT plans are too light on running.

For a HIM and even more at IM distance, bike should be more of a priority IMO.  I assume you're already a fairly good runner.  But if you kill yourself on the bike, you won't get to take advantage of your running ability.  This is especially true on hilly bike courses.

During the offseason I think it's great to have more of a run focus and improve your speed.  But during the buildup to HIM / IM (~16-20 weeks), I would focus on the bike and do enough running to maintain what you already have.

Just my opinion of course

 

Edit: also you've acknowledged the bike is what you need to work on.  I'd shoot for 4 days per week, minimum, at least during those buildup weeks.  You really have to put the time in and work hard to improve on the bike.



Edited by spudone 2014-11-13 12:30 PM
2014-11-13 4:47 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Pro
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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete

In response to this part of your comment:

"I could take the intermediate HIM plan and modify it, but it would require so much tinkering with adding runs, moving workouts around, etc. that it would almost involve a total rewrite. Just wondering if there is anything already out there more along the lines of what I mentioned above."

I've also looked at many plans that hopefully would capture at least the majority of what I felt I needed to do given my circumstances and I gave up.  I've done a 20 week HIM build four years now starting with the BT basic HIM plan.  Followed it pretty close the first time around.  Wanted to change some things around the following year and loaded it all into an Excel spreadsheet and started moving things around to better suit me personally.  Each subsequent year I modified it more to the point where it has some resemblence but is almost a total rewrite from the original.

I do agree with some of the priniciples that others have commented on above but as far as a detailed week by week plan I've yet to find anything pre-packaged I like better than what I've been evolving.  I'll also mention that I didn't want to pay for a coach but I did have monthly "consulting" sessions with a very good coach in the area where we would review my plan and he would offer advice on tweeks here and there.



2014-11-14 3:10 AM
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Master
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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete
Kind of a response to all...Thanks for all the input. I will check out the trinewbies plan but I suspect in the end I will pretty much end up authoring a plan with various bits and pieces. I'm not someone who needs the structure of an exact plan, but I do find plans a useful reference in terms of balancing effort across the three sports (if left to my devices, I'd probably run 6X a week, swim 2-3X, and bike once LOL) and incorporating sufficient recovery. I've been at endurance sports so long that my body often doesn't give me the usual cues like feeling sore, elevated HR, etc. so sometimes it's better if I just write in the recovery days/week and do them. (My other solution is to schedule a trip to somewhere I can't run/train for a week.) My life is super busy (full-time teaching, coaching, online coursework) so it really helps to have something written down in advance so I don't have to think too hard at 5 AM about what I'm about to do!

I like Johnny Kay's idea of a laying out basic structure and then just varying the specifics of, say, bike intervals or swim sets. The run is my strength; however, I have found that to lay down a strong run of 10 km or longer, I need to keep up some kind of volume and at least one workout a week with some race effort running (4 runs a week has worked well during tri training--usually one longer run, one tempo or speedwork session, one shorter brick off the bike, and one more of a recovery effort, could also be another brick off the bike). For some reason I can "fake" my way through a decent sprint tri run on minimal training, but not a longer event. I don't tend to retain run fitness for longer efforts very long. Maybe it has to do with my age (45). All of my tris have had pretty strong runs off the bike except two (both sprints) where I got flustered at being passed by so many on the bike and probably pushed the bike too far below LT, then cramped badly on the run. I do seem to have some knack for running well off the bike, although occasionally heat/hydration has hurt my performance.

I think the bike itself is the one area where there is probably some low-hanging fruit for improvement at my age, so I do need to put in some major work on that. Last year I saw solid gains from riding 4X a week early in the season, especially in the longer event I did ("international" distance with a 62 km bike leg). I then basically rode the same pace in the next two Olys, so you can see what my strength/weakness in biking is! I think 3-4 rides a week is realistic for me. Basically, I can ride outdoors early on Sunday mornings. The rest need to be trainer rides. The majority of my outdoor riding is in an industrial park--flat but quite windy. I can safely ride aero on some of each 6 km loop. I probably will have others to train with only occasionally--most are too fast (a men's cycling group that averages 35-40 kph) or too slow. There's also a bridge I can use for some hill work, but the safety is pretty dodgy. At times I can't even get into the industrial park and then I am "stuck" on the trainer. It is really not ideal, but that is my life. I'm fine with 90-120 minute trainer rides--the industrial park isn't a whole lot more boring. I think I need to mostly be doing the long rides outside though as I need to work out nutrition/hydration in race conditions (similar to here).

It would be great to have a coach to consult with but not sure how I could arrange payment from here and there is no one in country; checked out a Singapore site but it's not set up that way--their coaching is based on face-to-face group sessions. As for tri clubs, I think I'm the club, or maybe the founder. (Two buddies might join me in this madness!)

Edited by Hot Runner 2014-11-14 3:12 AM
2014-11-14 7:55 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

Master
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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete

For the longer events, yeah, you do need to get in some running as a half marathon is a long way for most. But at the same time be careful of letting it dominate your training. JohnnyKay had 5 runs in on his suggested template and 4 hrs total of running. You could make one of them a harder run, but do try to save more of the harder efforts for the bike. The bike will need the hard work every week, and preferably several a week. Have you considered things like only doing the hard run every other week, or blocking it together and do one 2-3 week in a row then putting into a bike workout a few weeks? Also keep in mind the size of that run, particularly the amount of it that is hard. 3 x 1 mile repeats has a significant difference from 8-10 x 1 mile repeats in how much it wears you out and in the recovery time.

2014-11-14 4:07 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: HIM Training plan for an "intermediate" triathlete
Yes, the BT beginner plan had some bike focus weeks with only 3 runs, or less hard running, and some run focus weeks with 5 runs and more speedwork. I think I'm fine if I'm averaging about 4 runs/week with the balance I mentioned, not necessarily every week.. Sometimes I put the speedwork into the long run--for me a 90 minute run in itself isn't a big deal. No plans to do 8-10x 1 mile repeats LOL. I do pretty much all my training, except for swim, very early before work. Just thinking about that, and how long it would take when one factors in warmup, cooldown, and recovery, and having to teach elementary school all day afterwards, sometimes on my feet all day without a real break until 2 PM.........not gonna happen! Recovery time is a big issue for me--basically, my only down time is when I sleep. There's just no way around that. Fortunately I tend to recover fairly quickly, but 8 hours of sleep is absolutely non-negotiable!
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