General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance?? Rss Feed  
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2014-11-16 9:19 PM


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Subject: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??

A bit of background:

I've wanted to do an ultra for quite some time, but pretty much signed up for one on a whim (JFK 50 next Saturday). I did a 140.6 IM in late August. Ran the NYC marathon 2 weeks ago. I had about 6 months of good volume and great training followed by 6 weeks of problems.

One of my big concerns are that the last 6 months of training were not specific for Ultra training. I've managed a decent amount of running though, and did try to incorporate trails and significant hills into my long runs during my marathon training.

During the last year I've been pretty consistent in the 40-60 mpw range, at the higher end during IM and marathon peak, lower end early/off season. I have a good consistent base with a running streak of 2+ miles each day for over 2 years now.

But the last 6 weeks have been rough. I developed a bit of (what I think) is tendonitis in my inner left knee (probably pes anserine) and I really cut down my running prior to my marathon with a long and very easy taper. I ran the marathon hard and my recovery has been less than ideal and am still dealing with some muscle/tendon pain. I also got hit with a flu that I am now about 80% recovered.

Are my nerves well-founded? Or am I at least somewhat prepared?

Ok now for the advice part:

How should I run this?

I have a loose plan based on race reports that I have read. 15.5 miles carefully with some walking on the uphills from the start through the AT, 26.3 miles on the canal run easily, and then bring it home with whatever I have left for 8.2 mi. What should my actual pacing be? I ran NYC in 3:04, and I ran my IM marathon in 3:35, and find an 8:30- 9:00 min/mi pace as easy recovery. I wasn't planning on racing, I just want to run it. I've practiced no run/walking, and prefer to just keep jogging as long as I can, keeping any stops/walking to aid stations and port-o-john stops.

My gear:

Missing anything or any advice on what I am bringing?

Temps should be in the 30-40 deg F range. I will go with a marathon tested compression long sleeve top and shorts, gloves and hat, Injinji toe-socks, Hoka Clifton's (feet felt fine for marathon and I have nothing else either suitably broken in or not too far gone), 4 bottle hydration belt (used on long runs up to 22 miles).

I've read duct tape or moleskin is good to have handy for chafing or blisters. I will probably have some moleskin and bandaids in my belt. I will also bring an extra pair of socks and just have to carry them in my pockets. I will go heavy on body glide going into the race and look through some of my stuff to see if I can find some small packs of lubricant, and if not package something up.

My nutrition/hydration:

My nutrition/hydration plan will be pretty much on the fly. I feel that I will be running slowly enough that my stomach should be ok with anything reasonable. I will eat off the course. I've done PBJ and bananas with centuries I've ridden, and never had issues. I will bring a few Gu's though. I've been able to tolerate them even with very hard efforts. I am also debating filling half of my hydration belt with a Perpeteum slurry which is also training and IM tested. I will also have race tested electrolyte tabs.

Any suggestions or concerns with anything?



2014-11-18 8:21 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??

Originally posted by ImSore A bit of background: I've wanted to do an ultra for quite some time, but pretty much signed up for one on a whim (JFK 50 next Saturday). I did a 140.6 IM in late August. Ran the NYC marathon 2 weeks ago. I had about 6 months of good volume and great training followed by 6 weeks of problems. One of my big concerns are that the last 6 months of training were not specific for Ultra training. I've managed a decent amount of running though, and did try to incorporate trails and significant hills into my long runs during my marathon training. During the last year I've been pretty consistent in the 40-60 mpw range, at the higher end during IM and marathon peak, lower end early/off season. I have a good consistent base with a running streak of 2+ miles each day for over 2 years now. But the last 6 weeks have been rough. I developed a bit of (what I think) is tendonitis in my inner left knee (probably pes anserine) and I really cut down my running prior to my marathon with a long and very easy taper. I ran the marathon hard and my recovery has been less than ideal and am still dealing with some muscle/tendon pain. I also got hit with a flu that I am now about 80% recovered. Are my nerves well-founded? Or am I at least somewhat prepared? Ok now for the advice part: How should I run this? I have a loose plan based on race reports that I have read. 15.5 miles carefully with some walking on the uphills from the start through the AT, 26.3 miles on the canal run easily, and then bring it home with whatever I have left for 8.2 mi. What should my actual pacing be? I ran NYC in 3:04, and I ran my IM marathon in 3:35, and find an 8:30- 9:00 min/mi pace as easy recovery. I wasn't planning on racing, I just want to run it. I've practiced no run/walking, and prefer to just keep jogging as long as I can, keeping any stops/walking to aid stations and port-o-john stops. My gear: Missing anything or any advice on what I am bringing? Temps should be in the 30-40 deg F range. I will go with a marathon tested compression long sleeve top and shorts, gloves and hat, Injinji toe-socks, Hoka Clifton's (feet felt fine for marathon and I have nothing else either suitably broken in or not too far gone), 4 bottle hydration belt (used on long runs up to 22 miles). I've read duct tape or moleskin is good to have handy for chafing or blisters. I will probably have some moleskin and bandaids in my belt. I will also bring an extra pair of socks and just have to carry them in my pockets. I will go heavy on body glide going into the race and look through some of my stuff to see if I can find some small packs of lubricant, and if not package something up. My nutrition/hydration: My nutrition/hydration plan will be pretty much on the fly. I feel that I will be running slowly enough that my stomach should be ok with anything reasonable. I will eat off the course. I've done PBJ and bananas with centuries I've ridden, and never had issues. I will bring a few Gu's though. I've been able to tolerate them even with very hard efforts. I am also debating filling half of my hydration belt with a Perpeteum slurry which is also training and IM tested. I will also have race tested electrolyte tabs. Any suggestions or concerns with anything?

 

Have a plan going in for the nutrition and hydration.  especially hydration.  Are you wearing a fuel belt?  how far apart are the aid stations?  this won't be like the marathon or even the IM where the aid stations are typically a mile apart or so..................ive ran some ultras where the aid stations are double digits apart.  carry stuff with you!  keep the pace comfy.

2014-11-18 8:52 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??

Are you prepared to DNF rather than hurt yourself in the run?  

You're fast, but you're also coming into the run with an inflamed knee tendon and you can't expect a 50 mile run to not exacerbate that injury.  What will be your recovery?  Are you willing to give up your 2-year run streak?  

2014-11-18 7:54 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??
I think you'll be fine. Don't worry about your pace. The hardest part of the course is the begininng. You'll be walking within the 1st 2 miles (if you're smart). I would walk any of the uphills on the AT. Run with caution on there as well. Once on the canal path find a nice easy pace. The aid stations are fairly close together (3-4 miles) so nutition win't be an issue. It also breaks up the boredom as well. Once off the towpath there is pretty decent climb but it's all rollers after that. Good luck.
2014-11-18 9:07 PM
in reply to: djdavey


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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??
Originally posted by djdavey

Have a plan going in for the nutrition and hydration.  especially hydration.  Are you wearing a fuel belt?  how far apart are the aid stations?  this won't be like the marathon or even the IM where the aid stations are typically a mile apart or so..................ive ran some ultras where the aid stations are double digits apart.  carry stuff with you!  keep the pace comfy.




I can do 300 cal/hour on the bike for IM distance and long training rides and am fine (I weigh 170 lb.). I usually cant eat as much running, but with a low effort run I think I probably could get near that if not exceed it if I am really just jogging it. I have about 30 -35 oz. hydration on my belt, but I have a pouch I could squeeze in 5 Gu's or so. The aid stations are at roughly mile 4, 10, and then every 2 to 4 miles until the finish and by the description they have a good variety, and I am sure I will find items that I will be good with.

So nutrition plan, at least 270+ cal/hour (I will most likely exceed this). I will bring some Gu's but other than that, live off the course. Sound ok?

Hydration I am a bit unsure on. I can usually down a bottle an hour, probably close to 30 oz and be ok, but I've never done a endurance event (longer than a marathon) in the cold, so would I be at risk of overhydrating and hyponatremia? I feel like its hard to nail down an ounce/hour amount. Perhaps just make sure I am getting at least 20 oz/hour? (And again if this is my minimum, I am sure I will get more)

I had considered running out and getting a hand held bottle and using that exclusively for hydration and using Perpetuem in my belt, but I haven't trained with a hand held and would rather not do something I am not familiar with.

I would have loved to actually trained for an ultra and work alot of this stuff out already in training, but it just didn't work out that way, and I really wanted to run this race!

Thanks for the feedback!

2014-11-18 9:18 PM
in reply to: McFuzz


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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??
Originally posted by McFuzz

Are you prepared to DNF rather than hurt yourself in the run?  

You're fast, but you're also coming into the run with an inflamed knee tendon and you can't expect a 50 mile run to not exacerbate that injury.  What will be your recovery?  Are you willing to give up your 2-year run streak?  




I am prepared to DNF if I feel that there will be a significant impact on my health. I am pretty sure that I wouldn't pull out unless I was in pretty bad shape, regardless of what my plan was going in though =/

I don't plan on running fast. I just want to enjoy a nice long run through the countryside. I have no competitive goals, I just want to finish.

I do not have another race scheduled until the Boston Marathon in April, and if I have to run less for a few weeks, that would be ok, since I really need to learn to swim better! I wouldn't be happy to give up my streak, but it will come to an end sometime and I won't not race just to maintain my streak.

I am hoping the knee holds up though. It really wasn't much worse after my marathon. It was really the grind of training week after week that gave me issues. 50 more miles of running (albeit all in a row) should be manageable (fingers crossed).


2014-11-18 9:18 PM
in reply to: efari71


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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??
Originally posted by efari71

I think you'll be fine. Don't worry about your pace. The hardest part of the course is the begininng. You'll be walking within the 1st 2 miles (if you're smart). I would walk any of the uphills on the AT. Run with caution on there as well. Once on the canal path find a nice easy pace. The aid stations are fairly close together (3-4 miles) so nutition win't be an issue. It also breaks up the boredom as well. Once off the towpath there is pretty decent climb but it's all rollers after that. Good luck.


Woo hoo, assurance!

Just what I was fishing for. Thanks!
2014-11-19 8:37 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??
You will do fine, as far as eating goes, when you get food from the aide station walk along and eat it. That is what I do in my ultras, wash it down and then off on your trot again. I know a lot of people say walk up the hills but I would only walk if they are really steep and long. Using a hand held does not take long to get use to so if you bought one today and used it the next couple of days it would probably be ok for you. My biggest piece of advice is there may come a time during the race that you will feel real bad like you can not go on much longer, it will pass. Then there will be times that you will feel like you can carry that pace for ever and that will pass too. I think with you training and base mileage as long as the knee does not act up too bad finishing in under 9 hours should be no problem for you. Just remember relentless forward progress. Have a great race and I am looking forward to reading you RR.
2014-11-19 2:20 PM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??

Originally posted by ImSore
Originally posted by McFuzz

Are you prepared to DNF rather than hurt yourself in the run?  

You're fast, but you're also coming into the run with an inflamed knee tendon and you can't expect a 50 mile run to not exacerbate that injury.  What will be your recovery?  Are you willing to give up your 2-year run streak?  

I am prepared to DNF if I feel that there will be a significant impact on my health. I am pretty sure that I wouldn't pull out unless I was in pretty bad shape, regardless of what my plan was going in though =/ I don't plan on running fast. I just want to enjoy a nice long run through the countryside. I have no competitive goals, I just want to finish. I do not have another race scheduled until the Boston Marathon in April, and if I have to run less for a few weeks, that would be ok, since I really need to learn to swim better! I wouldn't be happy to give up my streak, but it will come to an end sometime and I won't not race just to maintain my streak. I am hoping the knee holds up though. It really wasn't much worse after my marathon. It was really the grind of training week after week that gave me issues. 50 more miles of running (albeit all in a row) should be manageable (fingers crossed).

You're hypothetically prepared to DNF then.    

As for recovery, what if running 50 miles inflames your knee to the point you need surgery or are completely off running for 6 months, taking you out of running Boston?  

Granted, these are hypothetical too, but it's easy (for me at least) to assume I won't get injured too badly and that my recovery will be quick.  Have you noticed that orthopedic surgeons are frequent sponsors for multi-sport and ultra events???

2014-11-21 8:31 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??
I ran the JFK last year as my first 50 miler. I finished in under 10 hours with no problem and felt fine at the finish. The race day plan you have outlined is perfect and you will be fine. Take it easy on the AT. Slow but steady on the towpath and the last 8 miles of roads. Just keep moving and stay hydrated. This is the favorite race I have ever done of any distance. Best of luck and enjoy!
2014-11-24 11:09 AM
in reply to: Lawdog05


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Subject: RE: Unsure with 6 days to 50 miler and want some advice and maybe assurance??

Thanks all for the advice and encouragement. The race went well and my knee held up. I will take it down a notch for a bit during the offseason and get all healed up.

Here is my RR. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...


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