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2014-11-18 11:00 PM

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Subject: Expectations from a Coach
I did my first 1/2 IM in June 2014 at 6 hours. I'm in good shape. Working out 2 times per day currently. 46 years old. I signed up for IMWI 2015. Decided to get a coach as I want to have a good experience and do best I can.

We did VO2 max and set HR rates. Other than creating my training schedule weekly and having calls every 2 weeks, I'm not getting much from this $200/month relationship.

What should I expect?


2014-11-19 3:56 AM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
An initial assessment where you assess goals and agree on a high level plan to get there. You need to get regular updates on how you are performing to plan.

Every 2 weeks you provide your availability
Coach provides a schedule with detail workouts to match your availability

You execute schedule, with ability to contact in case of questions or schedule conflicts.
You provide workout files and feedback. "I was toast", "I felt good", "too easy", "too hard"

Coach analyses this on a constant basis. When coaching from a remote place, analysis of the workout data is critical IMO
A good coach can tell when you were working hard, over working, slacking, resting too much
Every x weeks you do a debriefing on how things are going, what is the coach seeing in your workouts and a look ahead of what is coming

there is a ton of performance data a coach can look at. Are you fading on your runs, are you able to hold power levels on your bike intervals, are you going too hard, too easy....correlating your fatigue to the plan

At any time, if you have any question, he is there
If you need advice on a topic not necessarily part of his expertise, he can guide you to the right person

You have to feel he is as committed to the goal as you and he has his finger on whether you are on track.

2014-11-19 4:25 AM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
If the training plan is being created solely for you each week, in that it's tailored and not inappropriately hard or easy for you...and it's one that has you progressing...then what else did you expect? I'm neither attacking nor defending.
2014-11-19 6:53 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
Originally posted by marcag

An initial assessment where you assess goals and agree on a high level plan to get there. You need to get regular updates on how you are performing to plan.

Every 2 weeks you provide your availability
Coach provides a schedule with detail workouts to match your availability

You execute schedule, with ability to contact in case of questions or schedule conflicts.
You provide workout files and feedback. "I was toast", "I felt good", "too easy", "too hard"

Coach analyses this on a constant basis. When coaching from a remote place, analysis of the workout data is critical IMO
A good coach can tell when you were working hard, over working, slacking, resting too much
Every x weeks you do a debriefing on how things are going, what is the coach seeing in your workouts and a look ahead of what is coming

there is a ton of performance data a coach can look at. Are you fading on your runs, are you able to hold power levels on your bike intervals, are you going too hard, too easy....correlating your fatigue to the plan

At any time, if you have any question, he is there
If you need advice on a topic not necessarily part of his expertise, he can guide you to the right person

You have to feel he is as committed to the goal as you and he has his finger on whether you are on track.




  • That's great advice. I had the same problem as the OP and this would have helped me a lot!
    2014-11-19 7:13 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    You should see adjustments to your workouts based off your feedback and schedule conflicts. Test him out. Make sure he isn't providing just a "can" plan. Meaning, all he is doing is providing a generic plan and calling "custom".
    2014-11-19 7:41 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach

    I agree with what others have said, You should expect more than just "here's your two-week plan, now go work out."  

    The program should be tailored to your life and available time.  Goals and a time frame to meet those goals should be discussed up front.  You should provide feedback and the coach should be constantly analyzing your feedback/data and adjusting the program as you go.  There should be a specific strategy/plan for each race and a debrief afterward to discuss what went wrong and what went right.  What worked and what may need to be changed.  Above all, he should be your "Coach".  Not just a long distance personal trainer.  Your goals are not just to "lose weight" or "get in shape", you are in this sport to compete, whether that be in it's truest form or just against yourself and your own personal ambitions.  He may have other clients, but he is your coach and you are his athlete.  You are in it together.  He shares in your successes and failures.  He should motivate, try to inspire, and always be there to answer questions and guide you along the path you have chosen.



    2014-11-19 8:14 AM
    in reply to: GAUG3

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    Originally posted by GAUG3

    You should see adjustments to your workouts based off your feedback and schedule conflicts. Test him out. Make sure he isn't providing just a "can" plan. Meaning, all he is doing is providing a generic plan and calling "custom".


    I forgot ask... do you upload your workouts to Garmin, Training Peaks or some other portal for him to review? That's a red flag in my book if he doesn't request to see it.
    2014-11-19 9:51 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach

    Originally posted by scottficek I did my first 1/2 IM in June 2014 at 6 hours. I'm in good shape. Working out 2 times per day currently. 46 years old. I signed up for IMWI 2015. Decided to get a coach as I want to have a good experience and do best I can. We did VO2 max and set HR rates. Other than creating my training schedule weekly and having calls every 2 weeks, I'm not getting much from this $200/month relationship. What should I expect?

    What did you tell him you expected?  What did he offer to provide?  Expectations are best set before you start a relationship.  At any rate, you should have this discussion with your coach now.

    2014-11-19 9:53 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach

    What was the agreement before you signed up?
    That is what I would expect

    Before I hired a coach, I made sure we were both clear on what his expectations were of me and what my expectations were of him. Neither of us were frustrated or disappointed since we had communicated so clearly up front. 

    2014-11-19 10:38 AM
    in reply to: lisac957

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach

    My coach and I started out with a written assessment of my strengths and weaknesses, goals, and planned races.  We also had an in-depth discussion of that assessment and how her services would fit that assessment prior to me signing the contract.  We've done a video analysis of my running and plan to do one of my swimming, as well as a comprehensive bike fit.  I've gotten drills to improve run technique and running warm-up exercises that I didn't know before.  My strength training plan specifically addresses my weakness--in my case, hip from multiple surgeries and core strength.  She posts my workouts to Training Peaks, I give feedback on how my workouts went, and she uses the data and comments when preparing the next set of workouts.  Workouts are also based on HR zones and RPE.  She answers email questions and will take texts as well.  My Strava data gets uploaded to TP and when I have a race, I send her my BT RR, which she reviews and comments on. 

    One thing to note:  the company she's with has several levels of coaching, with prices set accordingly.  Granted, prices may vary by area and the coach's experience.  My level is comparable to yours price-wise.  If you want to look at the company's website to see their levels and the coaches' experience for the sake of comparison, it's mpmultisport.com.

    No matter what, if you don't feel like you're getting what you need, first talk with your coach about your expectations and whether it's possible for the coach to meet them.  If that conversation isn't productive, find somebody else.

    2014-11-19 11:09 AM
    in reply to: scottficek


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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    Originally posted by scottficek
  • ..
  • We did VO2 max and set HR rates. Other than creating my training schedule weekly and having calls every 2 weeks, I'm not getting much from this $200/month relationship.
  • ..


  • Even if you don't know what 200$ can bring you, what you do know is what you would like and your goals. If the service does not fit you then it makes no sense to waste money and time on it. I say have a chat with the coach and aim the discussion around your expectations and needs then see what he offers rather then hear what he offers and see if it fits you.

    Instead of trying coaches, I tried groups, countless groups (multiple swimming lessons, multiple master swimmers club, one run club and one triathlon club). when I get a services which does not match my expectations, I try another one. Worse thing then wasting money on something is wasting money and time... Of course in the process you end up having a better idea what to expect and what to look for.

    personal rant alert: What I hear a lot from coach is commitment. If commitment means the coach wants me to pay continuously while doing minimal work on his end, then no thanks. If commitment goes both way, then awesome! There are expectations on both ends, customer and coach.

    Good luck!


    2014-11-19 11:32 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach

    When I hired my coach we had a long discussion about what was expected from each side.  He was to email me a weekly workout schedule and I was to email him all my workout data for him to analyze.   Without going into all the details, he didn't live up to his commitments which is why I fired him.

    Mark

     

    2014-11-19 11:38 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    Originally posted by scottficek

    I did my first 1/2 IM in June 2014 at 6 hours. I'm in good shape. Working out 2 times per day currently. 46 years old. I signed up for IMWI 2015. Decided to get a coach as I want to have a good experience and do best I can.

    We did VO2 max and set HR rates. Other than creating my training schedule weekly and having calls every 2 weeks, I'm not getting much from this $200/month relationship.

    What should I expect?


    I guess the first question I would ask is what else do you want?

    My next question would be did you agree to these services for this price?

    You put the coach at a price value $200 so I assume you value their experience, knowledge and guidance more then just a plan and phone call?

    Now lets break it down. $200 a month gets you weekly training schedule, 2 calls per month. Lets say these calls are 30 minutes each and he spends 15 minutes each week building your plan. That is 2 hours per month MINIMUM they are spending on you.

    Are they giving you daily/weekly feedback?
    Are they doing continued education?
    Are they writing a blog you have access to?

    Add that time into the 2 hours, the hourly rate will quickly decrease. I gauge anywhere from $25-75 an hour is typical for a coach.

    Most people would be surprised by the amount of work that goes on for a coach, but at the same time some coaches just do that, phone call, training plan, give me $$$.
    2014-11-19 11:40 AM
    in reply to: RedCorvette

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    Originally posted by RedCorvette

    When I hired my coach we had a long discussion about what was expected from each side.  He was to email me a weekly workout schedule and I was to email him all my workout data for him to analyze.   Without going into all the details, he didn't live up to his commitments which is why I fired him.

    Mark

     




    Common for many coaches, especially the part-time coaches. Many are always a bit overwhelmed with how much time it can actually take. I think many more coaches would be more successful and athletes like yourself would have a better experience if they followed through with "Under promise, over deliver" instead of "Over promise, under deliver".
    2014-11-19 6:38 PM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    Originally posted by scottficek

    I did my first 1/2 IM in June 2014 at 6 hours. I'm in good shape. Working out 2 times per day currently. 46 years old. I signed up for IMWI 2015. Decided to get a coach as I want to have a good experience and do best I can.

    We did VO2 max and set HR rates. Other than creating my training schedule weekly and having calls every 2 weeks, I'm not getting much from this $200/month relationship.

    What should I expect?


    Tons of great advice so far.

    THe most important thing is what do you want? You said you wanted to have a "good experience" and "do the best I can".

    What does that mean to you? What is a good experience? Have you had good experiences in the past and if so what made them that way? Have you had bad experiences and what do you think could have gone better? How will you know if you've done your best? What will that mean to you? What will it mean when you've done your best? Maybe more importantly, WHY did you decide to do an Ironman? Why tri?

    When you have clear answers to those types of questions, you'll be able ot evaluate your potential coachign relationships much easier instead of feeling like you are tossing your money away.

    Even if the plan is custom (and likely worth the $50/week he is charging), if you don't see how it is...if you don't know how your performance and training files are being evaluated or getting feedback on whether or not you are coming along as he/she feels you should based on the plan ,then it's not worth anything.

    You can go to Vegas and pay $200 for a 1 oz appetizer of caviar...but if you don't like caviar, why would you pay ?

    2014-11-19 11:25 PM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    Just got a chance to log on and read all the comments. Wow. Great feedback.

    Some additional details.

    I guess I didn't know what to expect since I had not used a coach before. He is a full-time coach/part owner in a fitness center and has both coached and personally done an IM plus many other running races. I guess when I say that when I want to "have a good experience" I mean that I am willing to do the work now so that my race is comfortable/I feel good about my performance. I don't want to finish, crawling across the finish line (or not finish at all), realizing that I should have/could have trained better/different. Just trying to set myself up for the best I can.

    I do upload from both my Garmin 500 on my bike and my Garmin 110 from running. I give feedback on the workout occasionally. We use Training Peaks. Every month I am doing time trials in all 3 sports to track my progress, but getting little info back on if I am progressing as expected. We are about 45 minutes apart and so I have met him in person only a couple times.

    My frustration/concern is that it does feel sometimes like the workouts are just canned. I often have to send him a text or email asking him what a term or type of workout is. A simple example is a bike session he has for Saturday. It says 2hr 25 minutes. The comments are: "Time in the saddle here, keeping the legs turning over well. Keep it easy, and plan to have plenty of water with you." Not that I am nitpicking, but I would guess that this is Zone 1 riding?

    Additionally, he has never commented on me missing a workout or any comment I have left on Training Peaks. I have also asked about nutrition and training races prior to IMWI 2015 and I can't seem to get an answer that I feel confident about (said to try different things to eat on my long runs-duh and that I should chose some races before September and send them to him for his review).

    On the positive side, I have learned a lot about HR zones and how (and why) to train in them-in fact never used a HR monitor prior to this coach. The strength program he has me on is awesome. He demonstrated it at his gym.

    Not looking for someone to hold my hand daily, but I would have thought that a coach would be giving me more feedback or input.

    Again, not trying to just complain, but since I have not used a coach before, I am trying to gauge if my current experience is normal/typical or not.


    2014-11-20 6:41 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach

    The fact that you are within 45 minutes is great.  Even as a part-time coach, if I had clients that close I would try to get together at least once every week or two for 1-1 sessions.  Maybe that's not feasible with a full time operation and lots of clients, but could be very advantageous to the athlete.   

    2014-11-20 8:17 AM
    in reply to: scottficek

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    Subject: RE: Expectations from a Coach
    Originally posted by scottficek


    My frustration/concern is that it does feel sometimes like the workouts are just canned. I often have to send him a text or email asking him what a term or type of workout is. A simple example is a bike session he has for Saturday. It says 2hr 25 minutes. The comments are: "Time in the saddle here, keeping the legs turning over well. Keep it easy, and plan to have plenty of water with you." Not that I am nitpicking, but I would guess that this is Zone 1 riding?

    Additionally, he has never commented on me missing a workout or any comment I have left on Training Peaks. I have also asked about nutrition and training races prior to IMWI 2015 and I can't seem to get an answer that I feel confident about (said to try different things to eat on my long runs-duh and that I should chose some races before September and send them to him for his review).

    On the positive side, I have learned a lot about HR zones and how (and why) to train in them-in fact never used a HR monitor prior to this coach. The strength program he has me on is awesome. He demonstrated it at his gym.

    Not looking for someone to hold my hand daily, but I would have thought that a coach would be giving me more feedback or input.



    Yup every coaches writes their workouts differently. Like I said above each workout (for the most part) is canned that they have warmups/mainsets/cooldowns. Don't expect your coach to hand write each sessions an think of it each week. They usually pull from a very large and vast bank to get a workout to match the goal of what they aim to accomplish. The custom part comes in watts, pace, HR zones, etc, when the workouts come, etc. For that specific workout it seems like a zone 1/2 ride. What I have found with athlete is that the word "easy" for triathletes is hard to nail down and is a relative term. I use, conversational pace, or should be able to breathe through nose, etc, give descriptions of what easy means otherwise many will get in the grey zone, or ride the highest level they can of watts, HR zone you provide, for example ride easy at 180w or less, and they will get right up to 180w and ride at that level and not think EASY.

    But it sounds like you are learning which is good, education to the athlete is important and teaching the athlete to be self-sufficient when needed is a sign of a good coach. if you are constantly asking, confused about workouts the communication might need to be workout. But if you build a solid relationship where you can focus on the finer points you are in the right direction.

    COMMUNICATE, if you want more feedback TELL THEM. NEVER HOLD BACK COMMENT. These relationships are like dating, they are under the basis of communication. I have seen many coach-athlete relationships ultimately not work because they were on difference wavelengths and not communicating well.

    Best of luck!
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