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2014-11-20 7:42 PM

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Subject: Where do we draw the line?
Okay, 1st we find out that Reverend Camden from 7th Heaven is a pedophile.
THEN, we hear woman after woman come out and claim Bill Cosby drugged and then sexually assaulted and/or raped them.
All of this comes on the heels of hearing about and seeing the Ray Rice domestic violence and Adrian Peterson child abuse stories.

What's the reaction, and are the actions warranted?

The last I heard, 7th Heaven and The Cosby Show were taken off the air.
Is this REALLY the best reaction?
For God's sake, there aren't that many family-friendly television options available out there.
Reverend Camden and Dr. Heathcliff Huxtable had nothing to do with these crimes.

What's next? Will the NFL not allow highlight reels of Peterson and Rice to be aired?

If the companies are so concerned about off-screen behaviors, and viewers are so concerned with not wanting to put money in the form of residuals into the pockets of creeps, work clauses into the contracts of the actors and actresses. Break the contract and you lose residuals.
Why should everyone on those casts have to suffer for the sins of their (tv) fathers?

I shed a tear thinking about how many folks must have refused to watch the Naked Gun movies because they featured a real-life double murderer. That's a dang shame.

So, does anyone else think it's a bit of an overreaction to take these quality family-friendly shows off tv?






2014-11-20 8:08 PM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

2014-11-20 8:19 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?
Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.





Whoa! You're preaching to the choir here. I have very little doubt every person I mentioned was guilty of the crimes they were accused of...
my point was more, "why throw the baby out with the bathwater?"
The shows themselves, the characters we see on tv, are good people.
Like I said, if I'm watching replays of Ray Rice running down the field, I'm not thinking about him clocking his then-fiancee. The same goes for the actors and comedians in my opinion.






Edited by ChineseDemocracy 2014-11-20 8:24 PM
2014-11-20 8:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

Whoa! You're preaching to the choir here. I have very little doubt every person I mentioned was guilty of the crimes they were accused of... my point was more, "why throw the baby out with the bathwater?" The shows themselves, the characters we see on tv, are good people. Like I said, if I'm watching replays of Ray Rice running down the field, I'm not thinking about him clocking his then-fiancee. The same goes for the actors and comedians in my opinion.

Nah......I'm better if they are in prison where they belong.  Release drug offenders and other offenders of victimless crimes and make room for these guys.  You can't rehabilitate them......the victims just keep mounting until you get rid of them.

Don't get me wrong.....I hate that Mr. Huckstable appears to be such a despicable person.....but it is what it is.  For me, I can't separate the people, and the crimes they commit, from the roles they play.



Edited by Left Brain 2014-11-20 8:41 PM
2014-11-21 9:21 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

Whoa! You're preaching to the choir here. I have very little doubt every person I mentioned was guilty of the crimes they were accused of... my point was more, "why throw the baby out with the bathwater?" The shows themselves, the characters we see on tv, are good people. Like I said, if I'm watching replays of Ray Rice running down the field, I'm not thinking about him clocking his then-fiancee. The same goes for the actors and comedians in my opinion.

Nah......I'm better if they are in prison where they belong.  Release drug offenders and other offenders of victimless crimes and make room for these guys.  You can't rehabilitate them......the victims just keep mounting until you get rid of them.

Don't get me wrong.....I hate that Mr. Huckstable appears to be such a despicable person.....but it is what it is.  For me, I can't separate the people, and the crimes they commit, from the roles they play.

True, but taking those shows off the air also hurts the other people that make any residual $ off the reruns so the hurt is compounded.  I agree with both of you.  There is no easy solution or answer to what should be done from the show perspective.  From a legal perspective, throw the books at them.  

2014-11-21 9:41 AM
in reply to: crowny2

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

I think our society as a whole likes to destroy people who do things that are wrong in every way we can.  Sometimes these "wrongs" are really bad and the punishment is deserved, and sometimes not so much.

I do agree with LB about their being high percentages of people accused being guilty, but we have no way of discerning who those 5%-10% that are innocent are.  That's why we have a criminal justice system that can sift through the evidence and make a decision beyond all reasonable doubt.  So, I tend to take an innocent until proven guilty in a court of law stance before I make judgement.

Another part that always bothers me, is how the media likes to sensationalize many crimes.  In the news, we typically see that so and so was accused of sexual assault, so we of course want them to burn in every way because of it.  However, everything from forcible rape to smacking a girl on the butt in a bar is considered sexual assault.  I'm not saying that either are good, because of course they are not.  However, if a notable figure got drunk and smacked a girl on the butt in a bar, I don't think it necessarily warrants destroying his/her career in addition to whatever legal punishment they may see.



2014-11-21 9:42 AM
in reply to: crowny2

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

Whoa! You're preaching to the choir here. I have very little doubt every person I mentioned was guilty of the crimes they were accused of... my point was more, "why throw the baby out with the bathwater?" The shows themselves, the characters we see on tv, are good people. Like I said, if I'm watching replays of Ray Rice running down the field, I'm not thinking about him clocking his then-fiancee. The same goes for the actors and comedians in my opinion.

Nah......I'm better if they are in prison where they belong.  Release drug offenders and other offenders of victimless crimes and make room for these guys.  You can't rehabilitate them......the victims just keep mounting until you get rid of them.

Don't get me wrong.....I hate that Mr. Huckstable appears to be such a despicable person.....but it is what it is.  For me, I can't separate the people, and the crimes they commit, from the roles they play.

True, but taking those shows off the air also hurts the other people that make any residual $ off the reruns so the hurt is compounded.  I agree with both of you.  There is no easy solution or answer to what should be done from the show perspective.  From a legal perspective, throw the books at them.  

I understand your point and I understand CD's point....and I think both are valid.  You guys work toward fixing that......I'm going to keep working to lock these bastards up. It doesn't do me any good to look beyond the pain and destruction they cause their victims.  I don't want to be sidetracked beyond the goal of removing them from society.

2014-11-21 9:49 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by tuwood

I think our society as a whole likes to destroy people who do things that are wrong in every way we can.  Sometimes these "wrongs" are really bad and the punishment is deserved, and sometimes not so much.

I do agree with LB about their being high percentages of people accused being guilty, but we have no way of discerning who those 5%-10% that are innocent are.  That's why we have a criminal justice system that can sift through the evidence and make a decision beyond all reasonable doubt.  So, I tend to take an innocent until proven guilty in a court of law stance before I make judgement.

Another part that always bothers me, is how the media likes to sensationalize many crimes.  In the news, we typically see that so and so was accused of sexual assault, so we of course want them to burn in every way because of it.  However, everything from forcible rape to smacking a girl on the butt in a bar is considered sexual assault.  I'm not saying that either are good, because of course they are not.  However, if a notable figure got drunk and smacked a girl on the butt in a bar, I don't think it necessarily warrants destroying his/her career in addition to whatever legal punishment they may see.

Have you EVER done that?  C'mon....who does that crap?  I have no use for any "man" who does something like that.  And really, Tony....you have worded that as if being drunk is some sort of mitigating issue.  Yeah, you did.   That's wrong.   I just don't care what happens to men who behave that way.  I don't care what they lose.

2014-11-21 10:00 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by tuwood

I think our society as a whole likes to destroy people who do things that are wrong in every way we can.  Sometimes these "wrongs" are really bad and the punishment is deserved, and sometimes not so much.

I do agree with LB about their being high percentages of people accused being guilty, but we have no way of discerning who those 5%-10% that are innocent are.  That's why we have a criminal justice system that can sift through the evidence and make a decision beyond all reasonable doubt.  So, I tend to take an innocent until proven guilty in a court of law stance before I make judgement.

Another part that always bothers me, is how the media likes to sensationalize many crimes.  In the news, we typically see that so and so was accused of sexual assault, so we of course want them to burn in every way because of it.  However, everything from forcible rape to smacking a girl on the butt in a bar is considered sexual assault.  I'm not saying that either are good, because of course they are not.  However, if a notable figure got drunk and smacked a girl on the butt in a bar, I don't think it necessarily warrants destroying his/her career in addition to whatever legal punishment they may see.

Have you EVER done that?  C'mon....who does that crap?  I have no use for any "man" who does something like that.  And really, Tony....you have worded that as if being drunk is some sort of mitigating issue.  Yeah, you did.   That's wrong.   I just don't care what happens to men who behave that way.  I don't care what they lose.

True, the drunk part is irrelevant.  However.  My point wasn't trying to say it wasn't wrong.  Just simply how the media likes to portray everyone in the worst light possible.  Then, we as a mob want to punish the individuals as if they are rapists even when they are not.

2014-11-21 10:11 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by tuwood

I think our society as a whole likes to destroy people who do things that are wrong in every way we can.  Sometimes these "wrongs" are really bad and the punishment is deserved, and sometimes not so much.

I do agree with LB about their being high percentages of people accused being guilty, but we have no way of discerning who those 5%-10% that are innocent are.  That's why we have a criminal justice system that can sift through the evidence and make a decision beyond all reasonable doubt.  So, I tend to take an innocent until proven guilty in a court of law stance before I make judgement.

Another part that always bothers me, is how the media likes to sensationalize many crimes.  In the news, we typically see that so and so was accused of sexual assault, so we of course want them to burn in every way because of it.  However, everything from forcible rape to smacking a girl on the butt in a bar is considered sexual assault.  I'm not saying that either are good, because of course they are not.  However, if a notable figure got drunk and smacked a girl on the butt in a bar, I don't think it necessarily warrants destroying his/her career in addition to whatever legal punishment they may see.

Have you EVER done that?  C'mon....who does that crap?  I have no use for any "man" who does something like that.  And really, Tony....you have worded that as if being drunk is some sort of mitigating issue.  Yeah, you did.   That's wrong.   I just don't care what happens to men who behave that way.  I don't care what they lose.

True, the drunk part is irrelevant.  However.  My point wasn't trying to say it wasn't wrong.  Just simply how the media likes to portray everyone in the worst light possible.  Then, we as a mob want to punish the individuals as if they are rapists even when they are not.

I don't think we should ever say "a guy gets drunk and does (insert inappropriate behavior of your choice). Being drunk is not an excuse in my book, and when we use it as such we're part of the problem. Yes, I understand that wasn't your main point, but it becomes a point when we do that.  And no, we don't punish the guy in your example the same way we punish rapists, nor should we, but that doesn't mean it goes unpunished......and if you have so little respect for others, or self control, that you engage in that type of behavior then it must be understood that you now don't have any control over what it costs you, nor should you. I tend to not care what happens to people who hurt or degrade others. There is no excuse for it.

2014-11-21 10:12 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by crowny2

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

Whoa! You're preaching to the choir here. I have very little doubt every person I mentioned was guilty of the crimes they were accused of... my point was more, "why throw the baby out with the bathwater?" The shows themselves, the characters we see on tv, are good people. Like I said, if I'm watching replays of Ray Rice running down the field, I'm not thinking about him clocking his then-fiancee. The same goes for the actors and comedians in my opinion.

Nah......I'm better if they are in prison where they belong.  Release drug offenders and other offenders of victimless crimes and make room for these guys.  You can't rehabilitate them......the victims just keep mounting until you get rid of them.

Don't get me wrong.....I hate that Mr. Huckstable appears to be such a despicable person.....but it is what it is.  For me, I can't separate the people, and the crimes they commit, from the roles they play.

True, but taking those shows off the air also hurts the other people that make any residual $ off the reruns so the hurt is compounded.  I agree with both of you.  There is no easy solution or answer to what should be done from the show perspective.  From a legal perspective, throw the books at them.  

I understand your point and I understand CD's point....and I think both are valid.  You guys work toward fixing that......I'm going to keep working to lock these bastards up. It doesn't do me any good to look beyond the pain and destruction they cause their victims.  I don't want to be sidetracked beyond the goal of removing them from society.

Its a deal.

BTW, you and I need to stop agreeing so much.  



2014-11-22 2:08 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

So... what do you think about celebrities? I'm not at all saying celebrities can't do bad crimes... but when I see stuff like this I automatically think extortion. I mean Bill Cosby is Mr. Clean... so you think it's possibly false.

Look at Micheal Jackson. Any normal grown man would be in prison for having sleep overs with kids. But MJ wasn't even close to normal. What parent allows their kid to sleep over after the first accusation? Then when they took money... I'm sorry... you just pimped out your kid for a few million dollars. It does not excuse any abuse that might have happened... but it's just fishy. If somebody sexually abuses my kid... it would be my mission to see you in prison.

Not sure what to think about Cosby.

2014-11-22 2:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

So... what do you think about celebrities? I'm not at all saying celebrities can't do bad crimes... but when I see stuff like this I automatically think extortion. I mean Bill Cosby is Mr. Clean... so you think it's possibly false.

Look at Micheal Jackson. Any normal grown man would be in prison for having sleep overs with kids. But MJ wasn't even close to normal. What parent allows their kid to sleep over after the first accusation? Then when they took money... I'm sorry... you just pimped out your kid for a few million dollars. It does not excuse any abuse that might have happened... but it's just fishy. If somebody sexually abuses my kid... it would be my mission to see you in prison.

Not sure what to think about Cosby.

Do you think 7 women conspired to extort Cosby?  Do you think a woman goes on national TV and says, "he gave me a pill and the last thing I remember is he was taking my underwear off."   Money, right?  Maybe.....but I'm not going there first....because this is what I know much more clearly.....money gets you out of crime and punishment way more then it gets you railroaded.  It just does.  Michael Jackson?  Is there anyone who thinks his behavior with children is normal?  A grown man sleeps with a child who is not his and it's innocent?  No.......no way.  That's off the charts abnormal, and Michael Jackson paid to keep the details hidden and out of court.  So has Bill Cosby.



Edited by Left Brain 2014-11-22 2:33 PM
2014-11-22 3:33 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

So... what do you think about celebrities? I'm not at all saying celebrities can't do bad crimes... but when I see stuff like this I automatically think extortion. I mean Bill Cosby is Mr. Clean... so you think it's possibly false.

Look at Micheal Jackson. Any normal grown man would be in prison for having sleep overs with kids. But MJ wasn't even close to normal. What parent allows their kid to sleep over after the first accusation? Then when they took money... I'm sorry... you just pimped out your kid for a few million dollars. It does not excuse any abuse that might have happened... but it's just fishy. If somebody sexually abuses my kid... it would be my mission to see you in prison.

Not sure what to think about Cosby.

Do you think 7 women conspired to extort Cosby?  Do you think a woman goes on national TV and says, "he gave me a pill and the last thing I remember is he was taking my underwear off."   Money, right?  Maybe.....but I'm not going there first....because this is what I know much more clearly.....money gets you out of crime and punishment way more then it gets you railroaded.  It just does.  Michael Jackson?  Is there anyone who thinks his behavior with children is normal?  A grown man sleeps with a child who is not his and it's innocent?  No.......no way.  That's off the charts abnormal, and Michael Jackson paid to keep the details hidden and out of court.  So has Bill Cosby.




Totally agreed LB.
Did you see the latest?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2844994/Law-Order-actress-d...

It just seems like WAAAY too much smoke not to be fire.

That said, I will miss the actual show, The Cosby Show, on tv. It's still a great show.
2014-11-22 5:15 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by powerman

Originally posted by Left Brain

What I know is that if you start with the idea that the kids and women are not lying when it comes to pedophilia and rape you will be right 95% of the time.  I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.  I've investigated, been a part of those investigations, or led rape/pedophilia/child porn investigations for over 15 years.....the men who commit those crimes are some of the most devious people I have ever encountered.  Work from a platform that the victims are not lying.....because they seldom are.

So... what do you think about celebrities? I'm not at all saying celebrities can't do bad crimes... but when I see stuff like this I automatically think extortion. I mean Bill Cosby is Mr. Clean... so you think it's possibly false.

Look at Micheal Jackson. Any normal grown man would be in prison for having sleep overs with kids. But MJ wasn't even close to normal. What parent allows their kid to sleep over after the first accusation? Then when they took money... I'm sorry... you just pimped out your kid for a few million dollars. It does not excuse any abuse that might have happened... but it's just fishy. If somebody sexually abuses my kid... it would be my mission to see you in prison.

Not sure what to think about Cosby.

Do you think 7 women conspired to extort Cosby?  Do you think a woman goes on national TV and says, "he gave me a pill and the last thing I remember is he was taking my underwear off."   Money, right?  Maybe.....but I'm not going there first....because this is what I know much more clearly.....money gets you out of crime and punishment way more then it gets you railroaded.  It just does.  Michael Jackson?  Is there anyone who thinks his behavior with children is normal?  A grown man sleeps with a child who is not his and it's innocent?  No.......no way.  That's off the charts abnormal, and Michael Jackson paid to keep the details hidden and out of court.  So has Bill Cosby.

Well with the number of them...no. And MJ... not from this solar system. Nothing normal with him having Never Never Land... but he was MJ. So none of that was normal.... does not mean he had sex with kids. I'm not necessarily defending him.... but I don't get bought off from a pedophile that raped my kid. He didn't have that much money. 

But you do make a good point about money in general... that makes plenty of sense. 

2014-12-03 8:37 AM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

, Virginia
Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Whatever happen to being Innocent until proven Guilty? 



2014-12-03 8:40 AM
in reply to: tarheeltri9

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Subject: RE: Where do we draw the line?

Originally posted by tarheeltri9

Whatever happen to being Innocent until proven Guilty? 

Preach it.

Unfortunately in our social media driven society, we have promoted ourselves to judge, jury, and executioner based on half truths and rumors.
I tell people that it's more like "Guilty, unless you can prove beyond ALL doubt that you're innocent" in our society

 

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