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2014-11-22 9:00 PM

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Subject: Hands or Feet
I recently got into an in-depth debate with a friend over pulling vs kicking. The debate came down to one simple question; would you be able to swim a faster 100 without using your hands or without using your feet? I think that if I had to swim without pulling I could easily swim further and faster than if I couldn't kick. While my upper body could pull me through the water, I feel that my legs just dangling behind me would slow me down. What do you think? I need outside opinions to help settle this argument, even if that means I am in the kicking minority.


2014-11-22 9:08 PM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet

Much faster without feet.

2014-11-22 9:09 PM
in reply to: ironswimming


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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
Pulling all the way. I consistently go faster without kicking than without pulling.
2014-11-23 12:58 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
I accidentally started a very hot debate about this topic a few months ago (look for "Swimming: arms or legs") and will certainly agree with others that the legs are just along for the ride
2014-11-23 2:35 AM
in reply to: ChemNerd23

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
Definitely faster without kicking.
2014-11-23 3:13 AM
in reply to: Rollergirl

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
yep definately faster when just pulling for me


2014-11-23 3:19 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Master
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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
Assuming you mean freestyle. If free, definitely just pulling. Pulling without a buoy does, however, make one very aware of any flaws in body position. It's possible to adjust position to minimize the drag effect; however, most swimmers use a buoy to get the legs to float a bit better. If you look at the Paralympic swimmers, some of them are amazingly fast with no kick at all, only upper body, particularly in freestyle.

I think though that for butterfly I might actually be faster, or at least similar speed, with kick only. Maybe it's just my body and technique--it's one of my better strokes, I swam the 100 and 200 fly in HS with decent times, but I'm guessing a lot of my propulsion comes from my core and kick, rather than my arms. My upper body's not very muscular, so it would seem to hinge on something other than just upper-body strength. Ditto for breaststroke--borrowed a workout from our school coach one day that included some breaststroke pull without a buoy, and that was one of the slowest, hardest things I have ever done in swimming.Thought I would drown! I'm a decent swimmer--My fast days are behind me, but I can still do 1500m in a pool in the 25-minute range, and finish an 800m IM--but still, I was about to go under on that one! I would definitely be much faster if I just kicked! Then again, breaststroke has always been my weakest stroke, so maybe it's just a major flaw with my technique.
2014-11-23 7:23 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet

Originally posted by ironswimming I recently got into an in-depth debate with a friend over pulling vs kicking. The debate came down to one simple question; would you be able to swim a faster 100 without using your hands or without using your feet? I think that if I had to swim without pulling I could easily swim further and faster than if I couldn't kick. While my upper body could pull me through the water, I feel that my legs just dangling behind me would slow me down. What do you think? I need outside opinions to help settle this argument, even if that means I am in the kicking minority.

Hate to be that guy here, but specifically what how restricted is someone in this? (It'll also add to the thought process of what things bring to swimming.) Fist drill and a kick set both have no hands, but the former does include use of the arms. Some are adding in a buoy for the no kick, but that provides an outside assist. And it's still possible to give a light rotational kick for rotation assist. If feet are banded together then many here would be faster in the kicking as they just wouldn't make the 100 without stopping several times. I could  do it, but the fist drill should still be faster and I could do a lot more of it.

2014-11-23 8:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet

Not even close!  The question is, do feet add much in long-distance (1k+) swimming?

Of course, then you could swim 4.4 miles with no arms or legs.  This dude completed The Bay Swim the same year as me.  Puts my accomplishment into perspective.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/18752983/man-with-no-arms-no-legs-swims-across-chesapeake-bay 



Edited by pga_mike 2014-11-23 8:22 AM
2014-11-23 8:28 AM
in reply to: #5069294


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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
Just because you dont kick does not mean your legs must necessarily drown. Like for all other styles, pay attention to how you glide, send your legs Up and with a sufficient pull you may be able to keep the horizontal posture.

Also, being in triathlon, you need your legs to bike and to run.
2014-11-23 8:30 AM
in reply to: #5069326


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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
To answer In a survey style, i am much faster pulling then kicking.


2014-11-23 8:45 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ironswimming I recently got into an in-depth debate with a friend over pulling vs kicking. The debate came down to one simple question; would you be able to swim a faster 100 without using your hands or without using your feet? I think that if I had to swim without pulling I could easily swim further and faster than if I couldn't kick. While my upper body could pull me through the water, I feel that my legs just dangling behind me would slow me down. What do you think? I need outside opinions to help settle this argument, even if that means I am in the kicking minority.

Hate to be that guy here, but specifically what how restricted is someone in this? (It'll also add to the thought process of what things bring to swimming.) Fist drill and a kick set both have no hands, but the former does include use of the arms. Some are adding in a buoy for the no kick, but that provides an outside assist. And it's still possible to give a light rotational kick for rotation assist. If feet are banded together then many here would be faster in the kicking as they just wouldn't make the 100 without stopping several times. I could  do it, but the fist drill should still be faster and I could do a lot more of it.

I'm with Ben, it depends on the limitations put in place.  Using an ankle band and no buoy is going to seriously slow down a lot of people.

Edit to answer the question:

If I can use a pull buoy, I'm probably going to be faster than a regular swim in anything longer than 100-200m.  If I have to use an ankle band and no buoy, I think I would still be faster than kicking although at some point that's going to get really tough.  If no ankle band and I can still use my legs for balance without actually kicking, that will be the clear winner.



Edited by axteraa 2014-11-23 8:50 AM
2014-11-23 10:46 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
You hit on how this debate started between my friend and I. I feel that kicking is highly overlooked by most triathletes. Even someone with a poor kick still needs the kick for balance and to help stay afloat.

Could an average swimmer swim faster and further with an ankle band and no buoy or with arms at their sides? I think the latter would produce better results than the former.
2014-11-23 11:31 AM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
Originally posted by ironswimming

You hit on how this debate started between my friend and I. I feel that kicking is highly overlooked by most triathletes. Even someone with a poor kick still needs the kick for balance and to help stay afloat.

Could an average swimmer swim faster and further with an ankle band and no buoy or with arms at their sides? I think the latter would produce better results than the former.


try it out on a lot of athletes...average swimmer of what cohort? how about average triathlete?

the amount of kick needed for those with very heavy legs is minimal, and it's more for rebalancing rather than actual floatation...you can't change the body's bouyancy.

But even those with heavy legs can learn a lot from no bouy, no kick swimming to learn how to use the core and where to extend the arms/what direction to begin stroking inorder to maintain as neutral balance as possible. Then adding as little kcik as needed to maintain balance, which is usually no more than ~ 1/2 lb of pressure per foot downward...it's really not much even in the heaviest of legs. Most triathletes overkick when they think they are kicking "for balance"
2014-11-23 12:38 PM
in reply to: ironswimming

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Subject: RE: Hands or Feet
Faster without feet
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