General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Did I just waste 135 minutes? Rss Feed  
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2014-11-23 3:17 PM


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Subject: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
So I just got done doing 2hr and 15min on the trainer. I have not been in the practice of wearing a heart rate monitor, but I did wear one today. I am kinda concerned I did most of the ride in approximately zone 1.0 with a heart rate of 89. I'm preparing to do a 140.6 next September. This was my long slow ride for the week. But is zone 1.0 going to help me make gains? I've read that most of training should be between zone 2.0-2.9....

Thanks in advance.


2014-11-23 3:50 PM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
I wouldn't call it a total waste. You've got a leg up on conditioning your arse for long rides.

Just consider it a prerequisite before you kick up your effort level.
2014-11-23 5:34 PM
in reply to: KIELBASA

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Any saddle time is better than 0 saddle time but that's more of a recovery workout. Although a long one... You're going to need to up the intensity a lot more than that. I don't know how new you are to biking but if you're just starting out, just biking (with more effort than you did ), will give you huge gains. Build up your base with Z2-3 rides for a few months and then look at interval training.
2014-11-23 5:40 PM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Assuming the HR monitor was working properly (they don't always, for a variety of reasons), that is pretty low. With a trainer, it can be hard to get the resistance right. My trainer has a very fine line between pretty much spinning with no resistance and grinding so hard it wears out the tire. It can be affected by tire pressure and gearing as well as the trainer resistance knob and needs frequent tweaks. Maybe you need to up the resistance a bit? F or a Z2 ride, it shouldn't feel "hard", but it should feel like a workout. With my road bike outside and normal gearing on a flat course, I find it very hard to keep my HR under about 115-120, even with very slow riding. Any slower and I'd fall over!
2014-11-23 6:24 PM
in reply to: #5069410


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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Ok. Yeah I figured I need to increase the intensity. I was dripping sweat though. And my resting heart rate is around 45. So when I began pushing it harder, heart rate 110 and zone 2.0, I felt like i was going almost as if I were sprinting and would have felt like I could keep that pace for 2-3 minutes.
Maybe I just need to HTFU? and I'm guessing I was only going about 14.5 mph.
I'm just getting back into training. Last year I did an Oly in June with biking 18mph and a HIM in august at 16.2mph.
I'm trying to increase my long ride but don't want to waste my time on a 2+ hour ride if I'm not going hard enough to get gains.

Would you all advise me to instead make sure I'm in zone 2, even if that means it cuts me back to something like 45 minute long ride...?
2014-11-23 6:39 PM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
How have you established your zones? How confident are you that your HRM is working properly? Something seems really off in your numbers, not only for this ride but your concern about only going 45m in a zone 2 ride seems way off too.


2014-11-23 6:40 PM
in reply to: jrob


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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?

Not a waste of time for the reasons above, (especially getting used to being in the aero position for 2.5hrs) but you should be training in at least z2 on nonrecovery days.

 

Make sure you correctly determine your z2 through actual as well ; don't just rely on mathematical estimates if you're going to rely on it so heavily.

2014-11-23 6:55 PM
in reply to: yazmaster

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
If you were really "dripping sweat" I have a hard time believing your HR was only 89-- unless it was very hot in the room.

Are you sure it's right?
2014-11-23 7:10 PM
in reply to: cnsegura

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?

Originally posted by cnsegura How have you established your zones? How confident are you that your HRM is working properly? Something seems really off in your numbers, not only for this ride but your concern about only going 45m in a zone 2 ride seems way off too.

This is what I'm thinking as well.

2014-11-23 8:15 PM
in reply to: #5069438


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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
I have a Garmin 310xt with chest strap that is giving me my HR feedback. I can remember now I it is calculating the zone from a resting HR and a max HR that I entered into it, or if I had calculated all the zones somehow based off my resting HR and max HR and then entered those zones into the Garmin. I know my resting can range anywhere from 42-50 and I think my max was maybe close to 180..? I forget but I had got it when I was running for a while and then ran as fast as I could for for about 200 meters.

Sorry I should clarify the "dripping sweat" too. Only a little sweat dripping while I was in "zone 1" but then picked up when went to zone 2.

Maybe I need to re calculate my zones.
2014-11-23 10:30 PM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
I would start here to establish your zones, I don't think your Garmin has the correct settings
http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid...



2014-11-24 1:15 AM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
First test...put on the strap, turn on the watch. Then, find your pulse and count the beats for 10 seconds and multiply by 6 (easier is to find a sweet hr app). If those numbers don't correspond, then toss the strap.

89 seems low, very low, to be dripping, but who knows? Everyone is different. First, eliminate the strap as a source of error before bothering with anything else.
2014-11-24 7:12 AM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?

Agree with above.  Double check the Garmin's HR is matching (close to) a manual check and definitely recommend doing the HR LT test linked above.  Also, look into using Virtual Power as a training metric instead.  Not sure what type/model of trainer you have, but with consistent bike setup VP may be a "better" training metric (e.g. short intervals are not so HR friendly). 

2014-11-24 9:06 AM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?

regardless of whether your strap was working or not, and to answer your original question: yes you are wasting your time if you spend 135 minutes in Z1 on a bike at any point of your training, either indoors or outside. Z1 should be ridden between intense intervals or on the way to or from a cafe of some sort.

2014-11-24 10:00 AM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Not necessarily. Read this article by coach Mike Ricci. He wrote most if not all of the training plans here on BT.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...

There is some benefit to Z1 & Z2 training. Particularly in fat loss and base building.
2014-11-24 11:39 AM
in reply to: Jcdyess

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?

I agree Z1 has it's place, but not on the bike.  if you want a good Z1 workout put on some running shoes; we could all use a little extra run volume anyway.  you'll get a lot more out of an easy run than an easy bike workout.  



2014-11-24 11:48 AM
in reply to: Jcdyess

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?

Originally posted by Jcdyess Not necessarily. Read this article by coach Mike Ricci. He wrote most if not all of the training plans here on BT. http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=... There is some benefit to Z1 & Z2 training. Particularly in fat loss and base building.
If the HR zones are not properly determined then it very well could be ineffective or inefficient use of training time.  As Clempson stated, it does appear he could have gotten more "benefit" in less time, particularily at this stage of his training.

2014-11-24 3:53 PM
in reply to: cnsegura


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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?

I agree with the poster - I've found the Garmin built-in default HR zone calculation settings to not be typical. FOr example, they're a very lowball estimate compared to Don Fink's Be Ironfit book. With Don Fink's book, my training HR seems spot on with what he recommends. But for the same zones per Garmin, I allegedly am training in zone3 all the time, which is clearly not the case, as its doubtful I could run for 2hrs45 minutes at zone 3 in training, ever.

2014-11-28 11:13 AM
in reply to: #5069455


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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Thanks for all the responses.

So I did some follow up testing to re-calculate my HR rate zones.
-- I know my resting HR is usually around 45 when checked manually. So I entered that into the Garmin.
-- For my max heart rate, I followed a Chris Carmichael 'Train Right -Time Trial' DVD. I did a 30 minute warm up making sure I was at least 90 rpm and getting my HR up near the end. Then I did two 8 minute all out, max effort, tests with a 10 minute recovery ride in between the two 8 minute max efforts. I had my Garmin set to calculate my average heart rate for each of the two max efforts. For the first attempt my average was 144 bpm, and the second was 148 bpm. So I then entered 148 in my Garmin for my max HR for the bike settings and it kicked out the following zones:

Zone 1: 74-89
Zone 2: 89-104
Zone 3: 104-118
Zone 4: 118-133
Zone 5: 133-148

This seems to be much more accurate for me, as I felt I was right around zone 1.8-2.2 when I had done that 135 minute ride a week ago, based on my own RPE.

So my question is, do you think these are good new zones for me? Or is there an issue with how I figured out my max HR or how the Garmin calculated my zones? If I am basing my bike training by HR zones for the next 3-4 months I want to make sure I'm starting off with accurate zones. And would it be good to do that same time trial test once a month to recalculate zones in case my conditioning changes?
?
2014-11-28 11:29 AM
in reply to: #5070544


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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Cnsegura - thank you for that link. I may consider doing that test as well. I'm guessing the zones would come out very close as my average heart rate would likely be lower if the max effort were to span 30 minutes (then again, maybe not, but average power would be lower).
2014-11-28 11:39 AM
in reply to: #5070548


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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Jcdyess - thank you for that link as well. I had seen that article before. It was good to reread. I like its clarity when talking about zones in terms of RPE. Thank you.


2014-11-28 2:07 PM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Originally posted by jrob
For the first attempt my average was 144 bpm, and the second was 148 bpm. So I then entered 148 in my Garmin for my max HR for the bike settings and it kicked out the following zones:



Without watching that DVD and hearing the rationale behind that test, I can't say for sure, but...
Your Max HR should be the max number, not an average and certainly not an average over a period of as long as 8 minutes. 8 minute average would be a lot closer to you LTHR than Max HR. For MHR, most tests involve a lengthy warmup, then short and punchy hill intervals. It feels pretty terrible and is not something you can maintain for more than 30 seconds.
I bet you'll get several more BPM and that would drag your zones up even higher.
2014-11-28 9:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Exactly. Doing a similar 2x8 minute test a couple weeks ago, I averaged 180 and 181 bpm for the two intervals, but hit 189 on that test alone. I'm sure actually trying to max out my HR I could go even higher, Although I'm not sure id want to...

Edited by JZig 2014-11-28 9:57 PM
2014-11-28 10:08 PM
in reply to: dfroelich

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
It is a LT test not necessarily a max hr test. I did the one posted here on BT and it is similar. You take your avg hr for the maxed out time period and it is supposed to be your LT. Garmin and BT use that number to calculate hr zonesi just did it last week.
2014-11-28 10:10 PM
in reply to: jrob

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Subject: RE: Did I just waste 135 minutes?
Originally posted by jrob

Jcdyess - thank you for that link as well. I had seen that article before. It was good to reread. I like its clarity when talking about zones in terms of RPE. Thank you.


No problem. You should try the LT test linked to that articl and see if your zones come out similar.
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