Age groupers and doping (Page 3)

This is AG triathlon we are talkiing about, not elite triathlon, not olympic triathlon.  What I am saying is that AG triathlon is ONLY important to AG'ers......certainly not to anyone else.....and only important to USAT as a means of revenue to support development of international caliber athletes....that's what governing bodies do.  USA Cycling is not going to drug test participants in your local crit, time trials, etc.....because they don't care.  USA swimming is not going to test at master swim meets, high school swim meets, most amatuer swim meets, etc.  And USAT will never pay to test AG'ers to any level that will make a difference, if at all......why would they?  BUT....they will all test at the elite level.....because that IS what the various organizations are in place for, and it is important because of their goal of building and racing elite talent on the international level.

I understand that amatuers care about their results, as well they should.  But unless they can pull themselves up to the elite level nobody else does.....it's just a fact. And even with PED's 99% of the AG'ers can never reach elite staus anyway.  As for Kona.......that never makes our radar.  There is so much triathlon out there that I can honestly say Kona never even gets mentioned in our home.  There is no time to care about it.  We mostly live in a draft legal zone.

Since you asked, the latest and greatest for my kid is grand prix style triathlon racing, and swim club, and XC, and track.......he doesn't have time to care about doping in any race he does, or any sport he competes in......why would he?  His path doesn't include doping in any way except to be educated against ever doing it.  It may never come up for him, or make any difference at all.....that all depends on the level he can get himself to. If he is lucky mayeb one day he'll need to care.  AG racing is NOT that level.....no matter how much he wins.  The people who use PED's at the AG level probably understand that a lot more than you do.....they have no worries at all.

You and I porobably don't disagree much at all about how bad it is to cheat by doping.......I'm just a realist whenj it comes to enforcement.  USAT, USA swimming, USA cycling, or any other govening body, is NEVER going to pay to drug test their AG'ers to any level that would be a deterent.

Again, you clearly don't understand how seriously AGers in triathlon or cycling take their sport. 

Just because your son is 'elite speed' doesn't mean that he is so much more serious about the sport than some AGers, nor does it mean that speed correlates how seriously you take it.

Again, I am not in any way condoning doping, but to say that doping occurs only because you're racing so fast that your pro/elite is totally wrong.  

As well, you also have your info on AG testing in cycling incorrect. Doping checks in the AG division, despite the prohibitive cost, are being implemented at AG cycling races precisely because of a rash of AG dopers that turned up and continue to do so. Only then did it start spilling over to triathlon testing, and lo and behold, once they started testing, they started finding AGers failing the doping tests. You can believe what you want about the reality of doping, but it's unfortunately present (hopefully not widespread) and most likely will become more of an issue in future years as the cost of testing goes down and it becomes more prevalent in AG fields.

This is old news. When it makes headline news in the New York Times all they way back in 2012, you know it's not just a super rare niche event. Some of the folks who admit to doping in this article are Cat4 bike racers, which is pretty much entry level.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/sports/cycling/doping-in-cycling-reaches-into-amateur-ranks.html

I think LB's comments are going completely over your head.  He understands that y'all care, he just thinks that NO ONE WHO ISN'T IN THE RACE gives a rats.

Why would USAT sink a bunch of money into something that would disqualify a large percentage of participants (aka their revenue stream), violate their privacy, and not even do anything.  As lance showed us for years, I can dope to my hearts content all offseason if all you do is test me on race day. The only people you will catch are the soccer moms and dads who took ibuprofen or sudaphed the night before the race

Just put in your work, be proud of your results, and accept that cheating may and probably does happen.

Dan Empfield over at ST has been very critical of USAT of late for this very thing.  USAT pretty much only cares about the elite/olympic level athletes but funds 98% of that activity through AG memberships and then kind of lies/misrepresents where the numbers come from.  He also ran a poll on ST that basically asked would you continue to have a USAT membership if it didn't cover your race day license fee.  90% said they would no longer be a member.  USAT is a piece of $hit organization in my mind and have been less than straightforward in their methods and have huge Board and governance problems.

Exactly. Right.

I think LB is not saying what you say in the first bolded but saying what you say in the second bolded text. And I agree.  Until there is a public outcry and/or membership outcry it won't change.  Why should it?  see your first two points which are essentially the same. 

LB... dangit!!!!  we have GOT to stop agreeing so much.  

Well, either your not following my reasoning or I'm not making myself clear.....so I'll try again.  Nobody cares about the 50 year old AG'er winning their AG.  And what I mean by nobody, in addition to the overwhelming majority of people who don't even know what a triathlon is, is USAT.... and the governing bodies of any other sports when it comes to AG racing.  THEY DON'T CARE.  They will not spend a single dime to try to eradicate doping in the AG ranks.  Why should they? 

You all might as well face the facts......if it were not for the development of Olympic and International athletes there would be no USAT, no USA Swimming, no USA Track and Field, no USA Cycling, blah,blah,blah.  These organizations exist for the development of Olympic and International caliber athletes......we pay the bill, that's how it works.  I didn't know it was such a secret.  If anyopne honestly believes that USAT is going to foot the bill to try and find out if a 50 year old from anytown, USA is doping to win his AG at the Joeblow triathlon you are delusional.

When did I say that AG'ers don't care about their race?  But how much DO you care?  Are you willing to pay yearly dues of $300-500 or more so that testing can be put in place?  I'm not, because I don't care to psend that money on dope testing AG'ers.   I teach my kid not to care.....I tell him to just go race, and if you get to the point where it matters then you can worry about it.   Do I care about people doping or cheating?  Sure I do, in races that matter to the governing bodies of various sports (Olympic qualifying races or series,  the Olympics, etc).....because those athletes represent the best our country has to offer, and I want the playing field to be equal on that international level against athletes from other countries.....it's a matter of National pride.. But USAT and other governing bodies already take care of testing at those levels, as they should. I understand if AG racing is so important to you that you want dopers identified and weeded out........but you're fighting windmills. Just go race and have fun.

AG triathlon is beer league softball......who cares if the Home Run leader in the Wednesday night league uses steroids?

Meh....most of our best gymnasts aren't coached by Americans.  In fact, you can say that about a lot of sports.  Soccer, hockey, etc.

USAT is a great organization......but it has more whiners, per capita, than any sport organization I can think of.

I don't know of any organization that can't improve.  I end up dealing with someone from there a half dozen times or more per year.......excellent people to work with!  It's dues paying members??......not so much.