Are you a Liberal...

.... or should I say, are you a classic liberal? Because that is what this country was founded on. That's what I am. 

I've been doing some reading, talking to a "liberal" friend of mine. That guy is out there. But anyway... Just been discussing the foundation of our country on classic liberalism. The Libertarian party is really the closest party that aligns themselves with classic liberalism. 

The GOP, and what is consider a "conservative" today, still has roots in classic liberalism. The GOP has had many shifts. Once supporting isolationism, now supports a interventionist preemptive war foreign policy. The GOP too supported the creation of SS, the EPA, and The Commerce Act.

Modern Social Liberals, still have roots in classic liberalism, but have gone off the rails on interventionist governments and Keynesian economics. They most certainly want a welfare state (the definition of, not the slang used today). Reagan successfully changed the word "liberal" into a derogatory term that we use today. 

I say that I align with the Libertarian Party. I'm registered. Yet I don't truly want the country run in such a classic liberal/libertarian fashion. What I want is to change direction from the course we are on towards a welfare state/social progressive liberal country, back to a more Libertarian governance. Understanding that we are going to have social welfare programs. 

The principles the GOP stand for I agree with. However, where they left me was the shift towards social conservatism, and an interventionist foreign policy. And while they "claim" to be "pro business".... what it seems to me is that they are pro greed. Meaning, the economic principles of lower taxes, and lower government intervention are great. But what I see from the GOP is deregulation in order to rig the game so their constituents can get rich. And no, when the game is rigged for personal gain, that does not trickle down, and that does not strengthen the economy. The S&L disaster, the Wall St dereg of risky financial instruments mess, the mortgage bubble... It's like they just want to cash in until the crash. 

I have no idea where I am going with this..... I'm lost in Libertarian land. The GOP is off the rails... not in theory, but in practice. And it seems the fix many people want is to move to the more extreme right. Only 20% of the country identify as "liberal" in the modern sense. 40% are moderates, and 38% identify as "conservative". And the recent victories for the GOP not included.... how is it the GOP is getting hammered, and most of the country isn't buying what they are selling?

Sorry for the book.

I tried this out in another forum, but thought I would ask here. 

This election, I voted Libertarian. The only problem is... I don't actually agree with straight Libertarianism. Which, as pointed out, is classical liberalism. No government intervention in anything, Obviously we would never get there, but I would like a shift back toward less government intervention. I do not agree with a welfare State.

It's easy to point out the "religious right".... but there most certainly is a "religious left"... well, maybe call it atheist left Meaning there is a social agenda on the far left that is most certainly trying to be legislated as much as there is on the right. I don't care for either personally. That isn't the role of government as far as I'm concerned. No way to make everyone happy. People should be left to live their own life. It's the cultural war that is really throwing a monkey wrench in everything.

That might be what you say, but that is not what I have heard others say. 

I'm not in the majority.... but I don't loose any sleep over it either. 

Many once religious holidays are now secular in practice. the people will do with it what they will. No point in renaming the largest shopping holiday just so a couple are not offended. It's Christmas. 

.... or should I say, are you a classic liberal? Because that is what this country was founded on. That's what I am. 

I've been doing some reading, talking to a "liberal" friend of mine. That guy is out there. But anyway... Just been discussing the foundation of our country on classic liberalism. The Libertarian party is really the closest party that aligns themselves with classic liberalism. 

The GOP, and what is consider a "conservative" today, still has roots in classic liberalism. The GOP has had many shifts. Once supporting isolationism, now supports a interventionist preemptive war foreign policy. The GOP too supported the creation of SS, the EPA, and The Commerce Act.

Modern Social Liberals, still have roots in classic liberalism, but have gone off the rails on interventionist governments and Keynesian economics. They most certainly want a welfare state (the definition of, not the slang used today). Reagan successfully changed the word "liberal" into a derogatory term that we use today. 

I say that I align with the Libertarian Party. I'm registered. Yet I don't truly want the country run in such a classic liberal/libertarian fashion. What I want is to change direction from the course we are on towards a welfare state/social progressive liberal country, back to a more Libertarian governance. Understanding that we are going to have social welfare programs. 

The principles the GOP stand for I agree with. However, where they left me was the shift towards social conservatism, and an interventionist foreign policy. And while they "claim" to be "pro business".... what it seems to me is that they are pro greed. Meaning, the economic principles of lower taxes, and lower government intervention are great. But what I see from the GOP is deregulation in order to rig the game so their constituents can get rich. And no, when the game is rigged for personal gain, that does not trickle down, and that does not strengthen the economy. The S&L disaster, the Wall St dereg of risky financial instruments mess, the mortgage bubble... It's like they just want to cash in until the crash. 

I have no idea where I am going with this..... I'm lost in Libertarian land. The GOP is off the rails... not in theory, but in practice. And it seems the fix many people want is to move to the more extreme right. Only 20% of the country identify as "liberal" in the modern sense. 40% are moderates, and 38% identify as "conservative". And the recent victories for the GOP not included.... how is it the GOP is getting hammered, and most of the country isn't buying what they are selling?

Sorry for the book.

I have read it a couple times....

While a provision is in the Constitution for raising armies, it was also pretty clear our Founders did not believe in standing armies, or becoming the next military empire like England.

The GOP has a very long history of being isolationists, and did not believe in military intervention. They begrudgingly agreed to enter into WWII. Post WWII, they have done a 180, and the Neo Cons went as far as advocating for a Welfare Globe ushered in by U.S. intervention and nation building. I'm not advocating we disband our military, but that too is a long long way from what was started out. I certainly do not agree with being the World Police, which is exactly what we are.

The EPA is another good example. I for one happen to like clean air and water. The EPA is not designated by the Constitution, so therefore it should go to the states. But that is a Federal sort of thing to take care of. There are other examples that could work with the States, but many can't. Plenty want to abolish them for that very reason.

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy

Originally posted by powerman I understand the point, and agree that one religion should not hold sway "legally". But the fact is there is a dominate religion in this country. And while there might not be a movement to get rid of belief, there absolutely is a movement to erase all acknowledgement legally. Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday. If you don't believe in Christian, then fine. But why go out of your way to neuter the holiday for everyone else? Changing the name does not change what it is. So it goes both ways. And each side tries to use the Federal government to impose it's will. And both sides blame the other for doing it.

"Christmas is the observation of Christ's birthday." With all due respect, not in my house...and many other houses out there. Christmas to me is about the kids. Santa, gifts, love of family, helping others...fun stuff. That said, I have no problem with manger scenes on public grounds, or Christmas trees, etc. But, I'm not down with signs proclaiming "Jesus is the reason for the season" on public property. That goes for ANY faith. Just because you have a majority doesn't make it right. and btw, who's trying to "neuter" Christmas? I didn't even know Christmas had Jingle Ballz. Enjoy Christmas as religiously as you want...just keep it out of federal and state-funded property. Just my 2 cents.

I tend to agree with you CD.  Similar to the Supreme Court opinion i cited earlier Christmas is really more about what you described in the public space than it is about Christs birth.  Sure, there are many people who want it to be all about Jesus, but the reality is that it's more of a secular holiday than a religious one.

Even as a Christian I don't feel it's appropriate to have a "Jesus is the reason for the season" type stuff on public property.  I think where it gets tricky is with traditional Christmas things, which are religious in nature,  that are getting forced out of the public space.  For example kids have always had Christmas programs at school where they're singing songs like Silent Night.  There has been a direct assault on many schools to ban various songs due to them having religious content of any kind in them.  For me personally, I think that as a society that seeks tolerance and diversity should welcome religious songs from all cultures.