General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread Rss Feed  
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2014-12-03 1:47 PM

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Subject: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread

Hello Everyone,

With Ron's permission, I'd like to introduce MaximumTrainer, a free trainer software program now with the BT Winter Cycling Power Based Plan integrated.  It is currently available for Windows (v1.13) and the iOS version is in progress.  When you start the program it will check for updates and inform you to update the version if a newer one is available. There are a number of trainers available to use virtual power, or you can use real power via powermeters.  The BT cycling HR based plan is not currently available but may be in the near future.

Please use this thread for the MT software program Question/Bug thread and Max (aka MaximumTrainer) will follow-up with replies/updates           (do not use this thread for questions related to the BT cycling program).

Below is the screenshot of the program with the Plan icon on the left selected.  To go to the BT cycling plan workouts, select the program's row (green) and then click the "Go to Workouts" button on the right.  The workouts should be per the plan, there may be minor delta's here and there as I was watching the FSU/UM game and was getting distracted!  If you are not familiar with the program there are 4 phases to the program with 5' & 20' Critical Power tests (can also use the default MT FTP test if you so desire);
 1) Prep Phase [Weeks A & B (weeks 1-2 on website)] is optional. However, it is good to do if doing this
    program for the first time to gain familiarity with the program structure.
 2) Phase 1 [weeks 1-3 (weeks 3-5 on website)] goal is to Improve Maximal Aerobic Capacity
 3) Phase 2 [weeks 4-10 (weeks 6-12 on website)] goal is to Improve Slow Glycolysis
 4) Phase 3 [weeks 11-14 (weeks 13-16 on website)] goal is to Improve Critical Power. 

-----------------------------------------------

As of December 3, 2014
Latest released version : 1.13
Latest version notes

TODO list:

  • Release and test OS X Version
  • Ability to import other workout file format (erg, ...)
  • Option "free ride mode" with no target and continue as long as the user wants
  • Real time Normalized power calculation possible?
  • Option to show power value and power target as %FTP on top of Watts (same for HR with %LTHR)
  • Possible option : Move back, move forward at some position in the workout
  • Show distinct color when a workout is done (ability to set a workout to "done" or "not done" with right click)
  • Integrate .FIT file support (choose between FIT of TCX)
  • Support for Kickr/ComputerTrainer

Nice-to-have: 

  • Video popUp to see video on a separate monitor


2014-12-03 2:12 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Thanks for the intro!

If you got any questions regarding the software, or even suggestion/bugs, feel free to post it there to let me know.
Just wanted to clarify, it's the Mac OS version that is in progress. iOS and Android may come but later

I'm gonna start the program this week also, doing my FTP test now.

Happy training!
Max
2014-12-03 5:51 PM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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New Hampshire
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Just downloaded and I'll give it a go tonight. Any chance you can get some other trainers on there? I have a Nashbar Fluid adjustable (1-5). I'll try it out on a random trainer and can adjust as needed.
2014-12-03 8:31 PM
in reply to: jonD81

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Originally posted by jonD81

Just downloaded and I'll give it a go tonight. Any chance you can get some other trainers on there? I have a Nashbar Fluid adjustable (1-5). I'll try it out on a random trainer and can adjust as needed.


Hey! Sure I would like to get most of trainer possible inside MT. All I need is the trainer "power curve" to translate speed into power. I emailed Nashbar to see if they got the formulas, if I can get them, should be good to integrate the trainer really fast. I'll get back to you.

Thanks!
Max
2014-12-04 7:41 AM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Thanks Max.

Did my first ride with the program last night and I liked it.

Really easy to set up the whole thing. The download, install and sign up took less than 7 minutes. I know because it was 6:43 and I give my son a bath at 6:50 and I was already filing through the workouts when it was time to go upstairs.

My HR monitor (Timex) and my cadence sensor (Garmin GSC) paired very quickly with the program. I use a typical Garmin ANT USB stick.

While my Nashbar Fluid trainer isn't listed I chose a similar fluid trainer and used the adjustable setting and kind of went by "feel". It ended up feeling pretty close to what I was used to.

I didn't want to do a test, so I just went with the first workout in the BT 16 week plan. It was some intervals and a lot of steady riding. It took me probably 10 minutes of riding to adjust the settings of the graphs and numbers at the bottom of the screen to show what I like to see and how I want to see it. It was very easy to adjust, just clicked the Gear icon (pretty noticeable icon with universal meaning) and the meanings were pretty self explanatory to what each option meant.

I had an episode of Breaking Bad playing in the browser and I definitely liked the simplicity of the video control. Clear picture, easy volume control. The program ran very smoothly almost the entire time. My power/HR/Cad numbers never were a question as they were very smooth. I did catch a little skipping/lagging when I went "off the grid" a bit at the end. What I mean by that is at the end it was looking for 50% power as a cool down but I wasn't ready to cool down, so I threw a few 2-3 minute intervals at 100% above target power, and I noticed that when I was 110-120% above that everything would skip a bit. That was the only time I saw any skip.

There are still some settings that I'll play around with but all in all it was a very clean, well produced product. I'll definitely give it a few more spins so I can get everything tweaked out properly. I didn't have a chance to try and upload anything but I did notice the file saved right after I was done. If I come across any other questions I'll throw them up here.

Thanks!
2014-12-04 8:36 AM
in reply to: 0

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Thanks for the feedback jonD81!

Really cool to see what a first time user think of it, I already used it too much and can't see all theses little details you pointed.

If you are using the real-time graph at the bottom, a good way to see if you have great ANT+ reception is to see if the line move often or not. ANT+ support up to 4 data point per second, but if you have bad reception (Sensor too far from ANT Stick, etc.) you will see the line not moving much for a few seconds. Not sure this is what you mean by "skipping"?

Still haven't received a response from Nashbar product support. If you want, you could drop a line at "[email protected]" to speed up things and show publishing their trainer curve would benefit them.

Thanks again for your review, really appreciated and encouraging :)

Edited by MaximumTrainer 2014-12-04 8:41 AM


2014-12-04 9:46 AM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
By skipping I meant that the video/audio on the movie skipped when I went way above and beyond the target values for an extended time. I had my head down, so I didn't notice if the graph and output numbers were skipping, but I could hear the audio start and stop very quickly a few times. It could be the video but everything worked perfectly fine for the entire ride besides that. For reference I think the target was 120W and when I went over 230W I got some skipping, so roughly 100% over. I'll try really messing with the settings and some of that stuff again Friday/Saturday.
2014-12-04 11:31 AM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer


79
252525
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
I see you have numerous Minoura trainers loaded but unfortunately not the one I have which is the B60-r. Can you get that one loaded or do you know of the ones you have loaded which would be similar for me to use? Thanks for the free software.
2014-12-04 1:39 PM
in reply to: USAFR

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Originally posted by USAFR

I see you have numerous Minoura trainers loaded but unfortunately not the one I have which is the B60-r. Can you get that one loaded or do you know of the ones you have loaded which would be similar for me to use? Thanks for the free software.


I'll check with Minoura if I can get more trainers. Not sure about similar trainer to this model. I wish trainer companies would publish their trainer curve publicly, right now I have to contact them all individually.. will see if they reply to my request!
Your welcome have fun training!
2014-12-05 3:18 PM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer


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Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread

Develop Kickr support please! 

 

Seriously, this would help you a lot in gaining more users - the Kickr ships with zero PC-based software to drive its erg mode (it comes a simplistic iphone app), and the only options to control it are the paid options (Trainerroad, perfpro, etc.) Not that those software choices aren't solid, but I'm finding I don't need all the bells & whistles of all of those, and I suspect that a lot of Kickr users feel this way. 

 

You'd almost corner the market on Kickr software if you develop support for it!

2014-12-05 3:36 PM
in reply to: 0

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Yes! I'm going to try and support the trainers with the most requests/easiest API to integrate, and Kickr is on the top of that list with CompuTrainer after! I'm gonna start working to integrate the Kickr soon, will let know you when there is more news! I wish they would give some kind of Kick Simulator, because it's kind of hard to develop when you don't own a kickr, so I may ping you a few times if you are available ;)
Your message motivated me a lot to work on kickr support, so i'll be on it this week!

Edited by MaximumTrainer 2014-12-05 3:36 PM


2014-12-08 8:28 PM
in reply to: 0

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Originally posted by jonD81

Just downloaded and I'll give it a go tonight. Any chance you can get some other trainers on there? I have a Nashbar Fluid adjustable (1-5). I'll try it out on a random trainer and can adjust as needed.


Hey there,

I found some trainer curve for the nashbar ajustable trainer.
Let me know if it would be worth it to put all the resistance level (1-5) or just one?

That being said, the curves don't appear to be spot precise (not many data points provided..)
Here are the curves:
https://maximumtrainer.com/power_curves.jpg

For skipping/lagging, the real-time graphs have been improved and should have better performance now (in the next release)!

Thanks,
Max

Edited by MaximumTrainer 2014-12-08 8:28 PM
2014-12-09 7:21 AM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
I don't know how difficult it is to put them all, but there is a lot of resistance difference between each setting. I typically ride on 2 just so I can get a good variance of gearing but to make one of the other stock trainers on the program work I used #3 the other day to get as close to possible based on effort and feel.
2014-12-09 2:30 PM
in reply to: jonD81

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Originally posted by jonD81

I don't know how difficult it is to put them all, but there is a lot of resistance difference between each setting. I typically ride on 2 just so I can get a good variance of gearing but to make one of the other stock trainers on the program work I used #3 the other day to get as close to possible based on effort and feel.


Not difficult at all! just wanted to make sure it would be useful
The 5 curves are now live inside MT if you want to test them.
Company confirmed me that this is the best curve they have.

Next version should come soon just need a little more testing.
Have fun!
Max
2014-12-17 1:00 AM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Just to keep you guys updated, the OS X version has been released!
Next on the list is support for Kickr/CompuTrainer
https://maximumtrainer.com/news
2015-01-04 5:05 PM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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Regular
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500100
Portland, Oregon
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
This is probably a stupid question...
Can you calculate a virtual power curve simply from a series of averaged spin downs? If there is zero power being applied to the cranks, then the deceleration of the wheel should be equal to the power required to spin it up. The biggest issue I can see is not having enough data points from the speed sensor, but you do 10 spin downs and clump them together.


2015-01-04 5:40 PM
in reply to: 0

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Not a stupid question at all!

Basically, If you have someone with a power meter and a speed sensor, he could record a lot of data points (speed, power). The more data points, the more reliable the curve. Not sure how all the company do find the 'calculated power curve', but I know this is one method. For the spindown, if I'm not missing anything, this could be another method.

Example:
For the Nashbar curve, they only sent me a few point so I had to find the curve with the points.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/maecawr94stvplm/Nashbar_Curves.xlsx?dl=0

Happy 2015 all!
Max

Edited by MaximumTrainer 2015-01-04 5:40 PM
2015-01-05 7:48 AM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

Member
23

Carmel, New York
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Where do you plug in the type of trainer you have? I see it on the website but not on the program itself.

Thank you
2015-01-05 7:59 AM
in reply to: revbmac

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Hi there,
Not sure I get your question right, but if you don't have a power meter, you can set your trainer model here to get 'calculated power':
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3qd7ne2tj6kuqzo/trainer_curve.png?dl=0

Let me know if you need any help, have fun training!
Max
2015-01-05 9:48 AM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

Member
23

Carmel, New York
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Thanks! I was able to find it and just finished my first workout. Great program! One question - is there a way to make it not stop the workout if you stop pedaling? Every time I went to stretch it paused the workout until my cadence was over 40.
2015-01-05 9:53 AM
in reply to: revbmac

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Thanks!

Sure you can customize the start/pause trigger in the workout option (top right icon when a workout is open)
This is the place :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/41q6c4j4y1xbneo/stopTrigger.png?dl=0

So you could use "button press" to control manually when the workout pause or start
Good training!
Max


2015-01-08 2:27 PM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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Regular
606
500100
Portland, Oregon
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Cool.
I tried doing a workout and since I've never owned a power meter, I just guessed an FTP based on CT step up test I did awhile back (+25W every 30 seconds). To be conservative...I put in 200W. I was barely able to maintain the virtual 120W! I know that I can drastically change the resistance on my trainer (cycleops mag) by how much I crank it down on the wheel. I like the amount I crank it because it keeps my WU/recoveries in the small ring and the hard stuff on the big one. I don't really want to loosen it any.
I have no problem putting my FTP at 80-100 so that the program runs and keeps me on target, but it would be good if there was another way to normalize that number to something more realistic.
2015-01-09 8:15 PM
in reply to: dfroelich

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Québec, Quebec
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
Nice, how much turn did you crank on the wheel? At the moment, there is no way to normalize the number, but you could "cheat" by changing your wheel size, try putting a bigger wheel size so it would boost your speed and at the same time your power. Not saying it's the best solution. Trainer curve are not perfect, but it's a good way to measure your progress for cheap
2015-01-11 3:48 PM
in reply to: MaximumTrainer

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Regular
606
500100
Portland, Oregon
Subject: RE: Introducing MaximumTrainer and Question/Bug Thread
I crank it till it makes contact then an additional 1.25 turns.
I'll probably just make my FTP 80, haha. Whenever I get a PM I can report back that my FTP magically doubled (tripled, who knows?) over night!
2015-01-11 8:52 PM
in reply to: dfroelich


54
2525
Subject: 2 questions
1. I feel dumb asking...but how do I change speed from kilometers per hour to miles per hour? I feel like I've looked all over in the program and still can't find it.

2. What is the best way to set my trainer up for a trainer power curve? I already have my "power" set up in the "gear" section for my kirk kinetic trainer, but I'm wondering how tightly I crank down on my wheel with my trainer. I'm pretty new to using a trainer, so any suggestions would be great. I'd imagine that to keep my workouts reliable, I need to set my trainer up with the same tension on the wheel everytime I use the program, right?

Thanks,

Jeremy
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