General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Does the bike really matter? Rss Feed  
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2014-12-05 8:08 PM

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Groton, New York
Subject: Does the bike really matter?
I realize one still wants to get a fitting so you know what frame size to go after, but does the bike itself really matter any more? It seems like most of the manufacturers are making them so they can be fit to just about anyone, so is there really any difference any longer...i.e. geometry of one manufacturer vs another?


2014-12-05 8:11 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Richland, Washington
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
How technical do you want me to get? Simple answer is yes. It does matter. I will tell anyone looking to buy a bike to get a fitting first, then select a bike that fits your body, and the budget. Stack and reach are still very important and vary bike to bike
2014-12-06 3:30 AM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Yes. Get fit first so the bike fits you with the fewest alterations.

2014-12-06 6:38 AM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Absolutely it matters! Yes, you can make adjustments, but you want them to be within reason and the closer you get to the ideal fit from the very start, the better balanced the bike will be. You truly know when the bike feels like an extension of you.
2014-12-06 7:32 AM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?

Originally posted by keqwow I realize one still wants to get a fitting so you know what frame size to go after, but does the bike itself really matter any more? It seems like most of the manufacturers are making them so they can be fit to just about anyone, so is there really any difference any longer...i.e. geometry of one manufacturer vs another?

A number of bikes have become more similar in their stack and reach relationships, as in the ratios. Differences in aero seems to have also lessened some than in the past. At the same time, know that a medium from one is not a medium from another. It's also not a 56 from one, or a 54 from the next. A specific "size" of a t-shirt may vary by a few inches in the actual chest measurement even though they may have the same style of cut. So one may be a medium in one vs a large in the next. You want to get one that works best with you, the one that needs fewer odd angles to work well.

Also, it might seem sort of simple to some, but when left to their own devices a lot of people really don't do a very good job in figuring out their own fit. Even with the right size frame it's still necessary to get those other pieces correct and in the right place to have a good fit. Many people try to make do too much with being too high, too long with the pads, or too short. Maybe having both a big hunch in their torso and elbows out too far. Maybe still having the saddle too deep, binding them up in the hips. Or sitting incorrectly on the saddle. All kinds of things they may be putting up with they might not have to so much.

And then back to the bikes, there are some that are quite a bit different than others. The pair in Specialized line-up are at opposite ends of how they fit. So even within the same company, yes, there still can be quite a difference.

2014-12-06 8:32 AM
in reply to: keqwow


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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Originally posted by keqwow

I realize one still wants to get a fitting so you know what frame size to go after, but does the bike itself really matter any more? It seems like most of the manufacturers are making them so they can be fit to just about anyone, so is there really any difference any longer...i.e. geometry of one manufacturer vs another?


If you picture a traditional road bike I can be fitted on a 53-56 inch frame. But the riding position is not really going to be the same. with a 53 I end up with more of a "competitive" fit while the 56 is going to be an "Eddy". I could also go "French" with the 56. so either a 53 or a 56 can be adjusted to fit me but they will feel different because there are different types of fits.



2014-12-06 9:13 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Cypress, TX
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by keqwow I realize one still wants to get a fitting so you know what frame size to go after, but does the bike itself really matter any more? It seems like most of the manufacturers are making them so they can be fit to just about anyone, so is there really any difference any longer...i.e. geometry of one manufacturer vs another?

A number of bikes have become more similar in their stack and reach relationships, as in the ratios. Differences in aero seems to have also lessened some than in the past. At the same time, know that a medium from one is not a medium from another. It's also not a 56 from one, or a 54 from the next. A specific "size" of a t-shirt may vary by a few inches in the actual chest measurement even though they may have the same style of cut. So one may be a medium in one vs a large in the next. You want to get one that works best with you, the one that needs fewer odd angles to work well.

Also, it might seem sort of simple to some, but when left to their own devices a lot of people really don't do a very good job in figuring out their own fit. Even with the right size frame it's still necessary to get those other pieces correct and in the right place to have a good fit. Many people try to make do too much with being too high, too long with the pads, or too short. Maybe having both a big hunch in their torso and elbows out too far. Maybe still having the saddle too deep, binding them up in the hips. Or sitting incorrectly on the saddle. All kinds of things they may be putting up with they might not have to so much.

And then back to the bikes, there are some that are quite a bit different than others. The pair in Specialized line-up are at opposite ends of how they fit. So even within the same company, yes, there still can be quite a difference.

Agree with everything Ben typed above.  The majority of bikes fit the majority of people way more than five years ago.  So you'll probably find more bikes that fit you now but you still want to be sure.  Let's say you fit on four different bikes.  There's still a lot of nuances with bar/stem combos to get the right fit. 

2014-12-06 12:34 PM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Yes geometry matters. Only 3 time trial bikes fit me, all 2013 models or later. Can't find anything used yet....
2014-12-06 8:34 PM
in reply to: reecealan

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Green Bay, WI
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
can you run in a pair of shoes that are one size too big or small or just don't fit you "right". Absolutely. But could it cause other problems, slow you down, or just be uncomfortable...Absolutely. I also think fit matters more on a Tri bike than a road bike.

Personally I bought a P2 last spring off Craigslist. Great bike. Definitely faster than the road bike I was riding. However I just could never get comfortable on it. With the aerobars I couldn't get the pads wide enough so I would have to come out of aero more often.

I decided this fall since I was going to make some investment in my bike this winter I decided to get fit to see if it was worth putting the money in to my P2 or maybe start with a new bike altogether. I went through the Guru fit system. I specifically wanted to be fit on a specific fit bike to not be biased by the frame, stem length, or bars I was on. It was a great process. In the end could I have fit on the P2...... Kind of.....with a really long stem that may make the bike handle much worse. The fitter gave me a handful of brands that would work for me......by the way the top two brands I wanted....did not fit me. I need longer and lower vs the bikes I probably would have bought were higher and shorter. Oddly enough I ended up in the same size bike....just from another manufacturer(Argon).

One other big thing for me with the fit was crank length. I ended up going from a 172.5 to a 165 and it made a huge difference. I think this often gets overlooked as well.

The last thing to mention is I think some of the lower end bikes are actually much easier to adjust, and more adjustable than many of the newer high end integrated systems. If you buy without a fit definitely make sure you look for something with a standard stem or with a system with multiple stems or decent adjustability. Also look at the aerobars closely to make sure they have enough adjustability for you in all directions.

2014-12-06 10:35 PM
in reply to: Nussy

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Iowa City, Iowa
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
I like Nussy's running shoe analogy, that's a good way to put it! I'm curious what others think about this bike fitting website (link below). What are the key differences between dropping $250 on a bike fit in store versus using the link (it seems comprehensive to me) below and matching my measurements to the manufacturer's frame? I have never gotten a bike fit ($$ issues for me right now) but may try to save up to make a more educated bike purchase in the future.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store/catalog/fitCalculatorBike.j...
2014-12-07 7:28 AM
in reply to: ChemNerd23

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
It's a qualified guess at best. Better than nothing, but still a pretty good chance that it will be quite a bit off.

Look at the components of a bike fit… First the interview (where frankly you end up spending the most time since it is the most important part of the fit), where the fitter understands YOU; athletic background, cycling background, current goals, future goals, distances you train/race, terrain, current/prior injuries/issues, etc. etc. etc. Obviously, this is NOT part of an online calculator.

The you have the strength and flexibility part, where core strength, strength of certain muscle groups, muscle balance, flexibility of joints and muscles are measured. Again, not part of the online fit.

After that, you get to the body measurement, which is quite significantly more detailed than the online fit (primarily discrepancies, but also the number of measurements taken). Some of these are part of the online fit.

After which comes the dynamic fit, where you spend time on the bike or on a fit bike, looking for body movement and efficiency. Obviously this is not part of the online fit either.

Basically, the online fit helps you not to make a major mistaken when buying a bike (as in so far off that it simply can't fit at all, although you could still end up on the wrong size bike and most definitely with the wrong brand/model), but it's not even remotely close to the value of a bike fit.

Long story short, $250 for a bike fit is the best investment you can possibly make in your cycling.


2014-12-07 5:39 PM
in reply to: audiojan

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119
100
Groton, New York
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Around here it is $300 for a fitting...but yeah, I still plan to go that route just to get super details on the best fit possible.
2014-12-07 8:13 PM
in reply to: keqwow

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Yes it matters, it's too big of an investment to risk getting wrong .
2014-12-08 12:32 AM
in reply to: #5072505

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Iowa City, Iowa
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Even if your bike purchase is below $1k?
2014-12-08 5:25 AM
in reply to: ChemNerd23

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Originally posted by ChemNerd23

Even if your bike purchase is below $1k?


I would still say yes. You're significantly faster on a well fitting $800 bike than a poor fitting $5k bike.
2014-12-08 7:33 AM
in reply to: ChemNerd23

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Exton, PA
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Originally posted by ChemNerd23

I like Nussy's running shoe analogy, that's a good way to put it! I'm curious what others think about this bike fitting website (link below). What are the key differences between dropping $250 on a bike fit in store versus using the link (it seems comprehensive to me) below and matching my measurements to the manufacturer's frame? I have never gotten a bike fit ($$ issues for me right now) but may try to save up to make a more educated bike purchase in the future.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/Store/catalog/fitCalculatorBike.j...


I used that calculator before my fitting in 2012. I created a spreadsheet of all bikes in my price range with their geometry on the spreadsheet showing which ones would fit based on that calculator.

Then I went to the shop to get a fitting (I kept the spreadsheet to myself). Once I was fit and the LBS suggested bikes I was able to compare the suggestions vs the spreadsheet at home Yes everything he had suggested fell within what was suggested by that calculator. Some were right on the edge of what the calculator had said and some were more in the middle. After riding 4 bikes I picked the one that naturally felt the best to me. It was a Felt B16 size 52. With this bike the size 52 and 54 both good according to the calculator. The LBS had both in the shop. As we starting fitting the bike the fitter stopped and told me that he could make the 52 fit, but it would be at the end of adjustability(I believe this was due to my unusually long femurs) we switched to a 54 and it turned out that it fit better with more adjustability.

So in my experience using that calculator will get you on a bike that will fit reasonably well, but may not get you on the best bike for you. Personally I would use the calculator again just to make double check and make sure a shop is not trying to unload old inventory on me.


2014-12-09 11:51 PM
in reply to: #5072853

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Iowa City, Iowa
Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Thanks for the feedback on the calculator!
2014-12-10 6:30 AM
in reply to: audiojan


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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
At what point does it become cheating though when you bike is so well fitted..???
2014-12-10 6:37 AM
in reply to: runningdude

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?
Originally posted by runningdude

At what point does it become cheating though when you bike is so well fitted..???


Never
2014-12-10 5:46 PM
in reply to: audiojan

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Subject: RE: Does the bike really matter?

Originally posted by audiojan
Originally posted by ChemNerd23 Even if your bike purchase is below $1k?
I would still say yes. You're significantly faster on a well fitting $800 bike than a poor fitting $5k bike.

ehhh, it depends on how much worse the fit is. if you're sitting straight up like a mountain biker fine, but a marginally better position isn't outweighing the nicer bike here.

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